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Value Tier for Modern Only?

How does it make sense to limit the value tier to modern cards, when those are exactly the cards that have already been over submitted, causing the backlog? Why not try to facilitate vintage submissions, which have been victimized by all of the modern over-submitting?

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Comments

  • daltexdaltex Posts: 3,477 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Because there is a vintage "value" tier at a lower price point coming out soon???

    Never thought I'd see $30 "value" pricing.

  • PaulMaulPaulMaul Posts: 4,680 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @daltex said:
    Because there is a vintage "value" tier at a lower price point coming out soon???

    Never thought I'd see $30 "value" pricing.

    Especially with a six month turnaround time!

  • dictoresnodictoresno Posts: 1,003 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 7, 2022 12:19AM

    probably because time is money. modern is easier to grade and the chances of getting repeat cards consistently just makes the process more streamlined and quicker to process. not to mention, im sure most of their current load is modern cards, not vintage. tackle the bigger easier volume/workload first. look at PSA's monthly reports on their most commonly submitted cards.....all modern.

    when I used to tune/mount/calibrate/adjust skis at a local shop for years, newer skis, especially the bulk leases and rentals we had in stock, took no time to sharpen, wax, mount and adjust because of sheer volume of doing the same brand and model over and over again. cookie cutter process. the older skis and bindings that came in with significant base damage, heavily rusted edges or mounting issues took way longer to process than the newer skis in better condition and simpler binding systems. I could churn out 4-5 pairs of newer basic skis for every one pair of older ones.

    vintage cards, I would imagine, take more time to check for trimming and alterations and will usually have more damage and other technicalities that take more time to review per grader than a simple recently pack pulled card.

    or maybe im wrong but the logic is plausible.

    myslabs.to/smzcards

  • Jayman1982Jayman1982 Posts: 464 ✭✭✭
    edited June 7, 2022 3:58AM

    @PaulMaul said:
    How does it make sense to limit the value tier to modern cards, when those are exactly the cards that have already been over submitted, causing the backlog? Why not try to facilitate vintage submissions, which have been victimized by all of the modern over-submitting?

    On a positive note they have defined modern as 1996 and up, that has eliminated most of the over production junk wax period, that should mitigate some of the backlog causing cards to be submitted. It also gives me hope that my huge pile of 90's will be allowed at a lower price point, although that is doubtful seeing $30 for modern "value". Was really hoping for $15 for early 90's...oh well, the waiting game continues

  • SoxSox Posts: 16 ✭✭

    So 1995 is now considered “Vintage” ????

  • CakesCakes Posts: 3,450 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @80sOPC said:
    Positive sign IMO. I am still waiting for better pricing and turnaround.

    Agreed, great start!

    Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.

    Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
  • @dictoresno said:
    probably because time is money. modern is easier to grade and the chances of getting repeat cards consistently just makes the process more streamlined and quicker to process. not to mention, im sure most of their current load is modern cards, not vintage. tackle the bigger easier volume/workload first. look at PSA's monthly reports on their most commonly submitted cards.....all modern.

    when I used to tune/mount/calibrate/adjust skis at a local shop for years, newer skis, especially the bulk leases and rentals we had in stock, took no time to sharpen, wax, mount and adjust because of sheer volume of doing the same brand and model over and over again. cookie cutter process. the older skis and bindings that came in with significant base damage, heavily rusted edges or mounting issues took way longer to process than the newer skis in better condition and simpler binding systems. I could churn out 4-5 pairs of newer basic skis for every one pair of older ones.

    vintage cards, I would imagine, take more time to check for trimming and alterations and will usually have more damage and other technicalities that take more time to review per grader than a simple recently pack pulled card.

    or maybe im wrong but the logic is plausible.

    at first I was going to somewhat agree with this but I believe the research on the ultra modern cards the Research involved is tremendous and far outweighs any extra time a vintage card might take to grade. also I think there have been just as many modern trimmed cards as vintage highlighted.

    The logic is they need to get in on the market that feeds them before too much of business goes elsewhere, the 2022 releases. Another factor may be that all of the new staff is trained on modern. We have seen what happens when these graders get a vintage submission ..............

    hopefully means the pre-1996 orders will open up at a lower tier later this year. also, hopefully it means they will improve consistency on vintage by having the proper graders handling those orders

  • sjjs28sjjs28 Posts: 442 ✭✭✭

    How can anyone say MODERN is easier to grade than vintage, Sorry, dictoresno..
    Refractors, Superfractors, Red, Blue, Green. Crystal, Diamond, Platinum, blah, blah, blah, Parallels.
    The research alone on these takes up multitudes of time more than a "vintage" card grading process.
    Add in the encapsulation process where Moderns require special films to holder the card....
    You see my point?

    Steve Saldutti
    sjjs28@comcast.net
    Collector of 1964 Topps Stand Ups, 1965 Embossed, 1968 Topps Game and 1969 Topps Decals
    Registered Sets: 1964 Stand Ups, 1965 Embossed, 1968 Topps Game, 1969 Topps Decals
  • empigtvempigtv Posts: 58 ✭✭
    edited June 7, 2022 1:03PM

    My guess is they hired a ton of people to grade modern, which is much easier than grading vintage. Basically just look for obvious damage. If there is nothing obvious, then throw a random number generator at it based on a bell curve. Vintage requires a bit more skill due to much more variable paper stock, printing, cutting, etc. I bet they were not able to load up on new vintage graders and therefore have less capacity.

  • CakesCakes Posts: 3,450 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You also have to factor in all of the non-sports cards they grade. That market has also exploded in the last couple of years.

    Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.

    Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
  • Mickey71Mickey71 Posts: 4,224 ✭✭✭✭

    @sjjs28 said:
    How can anyone say MODERN is easier to grade than vintage, Sorry, dictoresno..
    Refractors, Superfractors, Red, Blue, Green. Crystal, Diamond, Platinum, blah, blah, blah, Parallels.
    The research alone on these takes up multitudes of time more than a "vintage" card grading process.
    Add in the encapsulation process where Moderns require special films to holder the card....
    You see my point?

    This seems spot on.

  • Mickey71Mickey71 Posts: 4,224 ✭✭✭✭

    @empigtv said:
    My guess is they hired a ton of people to grade modern, which is much easier than grading vintage. Basically just look for obvious damage. If there is nothing obvious, then throw a random number generator at it based on a bell curve. Vintage requires a bit more skill due to much more variable paper stock, printing, cutting, etc. I bet they were not able to load up on new vintage graders and therefore have less capacity.

    I'm thinking they don't want to load up on vintage graders????

  • Mickey71Mickey71 Posts: 4,224 ✭✭✭✭

    Can a person accept a job as a grader right now and move to Newport Beach? I'm being serious. I simply can not figure this part out.

  • BBBrkrrBBBrkrr Posts: 936 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I only grade Vintage and will not send them another card until I have (at least anecdotal) noise they are grading them fairly again.

    I've also been hearing rumblings from big dealers that have contacts inside PSA that they've heard how frustrated folks are with the recent grading.

  • 80sOPC80sOPC Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Unless you wear an ankle bracelet, or in witness protection, why not? If there are jobs posted for Newport, and you get one, pack the f150 and off you go.

    @Mickey71 said:
    Can a person accept a job as a grader right now and move to Newport Beach? I'm being serious. I simply can not figure this part out.

  • StamkosFanStamkosFan Posts: 255 ✭✭✭

    I still can't send stuff in at $30 a pop. Most of my cards in raw are between $5-25 so it wouldn't make sense. Been using CSG bulk at $12 per card for 50 cards. Love their holders!

  • Mickey71Mickey71 Posts: 4,224 ✭✭✭✭

    @80sOPC said:
    Unless you wear an ankle bracelet, or in witness protection, why not? If there are jobs posted for Newport, and you get one, pack the f150 and off you go.

    @Mickey71 said:
    Can a person accept a job as a grader right now and move to Newport Beach? I'm being serious. I simply can not figure this part out.

    What I meant was....can you afford to live there???

  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Sox said:
    So 1995 is now considered “Vintage” ????

    One day it will be, if there are any collectors left. :)

    Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭✭✭

    From an economic standpoint, what with a looming recession on the horizon,inflation now here, and a softer overall card market, makes little sense to pay high grading fees. I reside on the sidelines. Only a viewpoint as it applies to me.

    Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
  • AANVAANV Posts: 326 ✭✭✭
    edited June 7, 2022 10:00PM

    @BBBrkrr said:
    I only grade Vintage and will not send them another card until I have (at least anecdotal) noise they are grading them fairly again.

    I've also been hearing rumblings from big dealers that have contacts inside PSA that they've heard how frustrated folks are with the recent grading.

    I hit a 6-figure card on a vintage raw submission two months ago, but I do concede that they are not handing out 9s or better on vintage like they used to.

  • AANVAANV Posts: 326 ✭✭✭

    @Mickey71 said:

    @80sOPC said:
    Unless you wear an ankle bracelet, or in witness protection, why not? If there are jobs posted for Newport, and you get one, pack the f150 and off you go.

    @Mickey71 said:
    Can a person accept a job as a grader right now and move to Newport Beach? I'm being serious. I simply can not figure this part out.

    What I meant was....can you afford to live there???

    Certainly not on a grader's salary without moonlighting somewhere else.

  • swish54swish54 Posts: 687 ✭✭✭✭

    I still won't be submitting at that price point, but on a positive, the price is indeed coming down.

  • secretstashsecretstash Posts: 1,393 ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 8, 2022 6:25AM

    @AANV said:

    @BBBrkrr said:
    I only grade Vintage and will not send them another card until I have (at least anecdotal) noise they are grading them fairly again.

    I've also been hearing rumblings from big dealers that have contacts inside PSA that they've heard how frustrated folks are with the recent grading.

    I hit a 6-figure card on a vintage raw submission two months ago, but I do concede that they are not handing out 9s or better on vintage like they used to.

    I am sure they were just as happy as you to collect their upgrading tier fees. xD

  • AANVAANV Posts: 326 ✭✭✭

    I am sure they were just as happy as you to collect their upgrading tier fees. xD

    I was thrilled to pay the upcharge on that card.

  • BBBrkrrBBBrkrr Posts: 936 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @AANV said:

    @BBBrkrr said:
    I only grade Vintage and will not send them another card until I have (at least anecdotal) noise they are grading them fairly again.

    I've also been hearing rumblings from big dealers that have contacts inside PSA that they've heard how frustrated folks are with the recent grading.

    I hit a 6-figure card on a vintage raw submission two months ago, but I do concede that they are not handing out 9s or better on vintage like they used to.

    Congratulations on that. That's awesome, and glad to see it happened.

    I still have quite a few in there but haven't been too happy recently on the grading.

  • rexvosrexvos Posts: 3,274 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This is a positive move in my opinion. More movement will have to be made though. First thing this does is cripple the junk grating companies (HGA, NLG, etc), with the economy shift and a price point within reason for modern/ultra modern cards there is no reason for anyone to use them. This will help clean up some of the trash out there. Secondly it signifies another move in the right direction, hopefully it follows with a 1995 and below tier at $25. Then maybe a year or so down the road there is a hope of registry specials for $99 value and less at $15. Even with the economic downturn, inflation, and new tax laws I see PSA demand remaining strong but these neophyte companies (excluding CSG) will have one foot in the grave and another on a banana peel

    Looking for FB HOF Rookies
  • 17751775 Posts: 72 ✭✭✭

    Still waiting for a Vintage order of (60) cards that PSA logged in on January 14th 2021!

  • 80sOPC80sOPC Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If you can't live there on a graders salary who is working retail, at the gas stations, fast food, driving delivery trucks, etc? Obviously there are people living in that area that aren't making 150K a year.

    @AANV said:

    @Mickey71 said:

    @80sOPC said:
    Unless you wear an ankle bracelet, or in witness protection, why not? If there are jobs posted for Newport, and you get one, pack the f150 and off you go.

    @Mickey71 said:
    Can a person accept a job as a grader right now and move to Newport Beach? I'm being serious. I simply can not figure this part out.

    What I meant was....can you afford to live there???

    Certainly not on a grader's salary without moonlighting somewhere else.

  • jeffcbayjeffcbay Posts: 8,948 ✭✭✭✭

    @80sOPC said:
    If you can't live there on a graders salary who is working retail, at the gas stations, fast food, driving delivery trucks, etc? Obviously there are people living in that area that aren't making 150K a year.

    They're called the working homeless... folks making over 100k per year living in a van during the week because it's cheaper than commuting into the larger cities for work. It's definitely a normal thing in CA.

  • athleticsfanathleticsfan Posts: 249 ✭✭✭

    @jeffcbay said:

    @80sOPC said:
    If you can't live there on a graders salary who is working retail, at the gas stations, fast food, driving delivery trucks, etc? Obviously there are people living in that area that aren't making 150K a year.

    They're called the working homeless... folks making over 100k per year living in a van during the week because it's cheaper than commuting into the larger cities for work. It's definitely a normal thing in CA.

    Normal? No, sorry.

    A's World Championships-1910, 1911, 1913, 1929, 1930, 1972, 1973, 1974, 1989
  • 80sOPC80sOPC Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I live in an area where the median home is over 1MM (Newport appears to be closer to 3mm which is insane!) and people aren't living in Vans. They rent basement suites, share accommodations, live outside the core.

    I suspect most folks that work lower income jobs in Newport commute in from lower cost areas. Also suspect cost of living is one of the main reason PSA is standing up a new facility. Bottom line is Newport would be littered with low paying jobs, suspect the PSA job pays pretty well compared to retail or QSR. So people can obviously get by.

    @jeffcbay said:

    @80sOPC said:
    If you can't live there on a graders salary who is working retail, at the gas stations, fast food, driving delivery trucks, etc? Obviously there are people living in that area that aren't making 150K a year.

    They're called the working homeless... folks making over 100k per year living in a van during the week because it's cheaper than commuting into the larger cities for work. It's definitely a normal thing in CA.

  • StamkosFanStamkosFan Posts: 255 ✭✭✭

    Why is everyone talking about Newport Beach? Their PO box is in Newport Beach, but their building is in craphole Santa Ana.

  • dictoresnodictoresno Posts: 1,003 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @sjjs28 said:
    How can anyone say MODERN is easier to grade than vintage, Sorry, dictoresno..
    Refractors, Superfractors, Red, Blue, Green. Crystal, Diamond, Platinum, blah, blah, blah, Parallels.
    The research alone on these takes up multitudes of time more than a "vintage" card grading process.
    Add in the encapsulation process where Moderns require special films to holder the card....
    You see my point?

    I said easier to grade, not research. the millions of variations are a mess when it comes to modern. however, condition wise, I would think they are easier to grade. probably less technical grading involved on a modern vs a T206. research is one thing and can be time consuming all in itself. but I was speaking more about the actual grading process looking over the card and determining a grade. that must be faster for modern than vintage.

    myslabs.to/smzcards

  • 82FootballWaxMemorys82FootballWaxMemorys Posts: 1,279 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 15, 2022 10:17AM

    @Mickey71 said:

    @80sOPC said:
    Unless you wear an ankle bracelet, or in witness protection, why not? If there are jobs posted for Newport, and you get one, pack the f150 and off you go.

    @Mickey71 said:
    Can a person accept a job as a grader right now and move to Newport Beach? I'm being serious. I simply can not figure this part out.

    What I meant was....can you afford to live there???

    Not on what PSA or their parent Company pays. Same also applies to New Jersey especially Central and Northern. I guess if in a few years you work your way up in the org you might be able to handle rent on a studio if you eliminate frivolous things like lunch and dinner.

    Now if you live in those areas already and are seeking to semi-retire that might work? If not someone else better be handling rent or mortgage+taxes

    Unless otherwise specified my posts represent only my opinion, not fact.

  • Mickey71Mickey71 Posts: 4,224 ✭✭✭✭

    @82FootballWaxMemorys said:

    @Mickey71 said:

    @80sOPC said:
    Unless you wear an ankle bracelet, or in witness protection, why not? If there are jobs posted for Newport, and you get one, pack the f150 and off you go.

    @Mickey71 said:
    Can a person accept a job as a grader right now and move to Newport Beach? I'm being serious. I simply can not figure this part out.

    What I meant was....can you afford to live there???

    Not on what PSA or their parent Company pays. Same also applies to New Jersey especially Central and Northern. I guess if in a few years you work your way up in the org you might be able to handle rent on a studio if you eliminate frivolous things like lunch and dinner.

    Now if you live in those areas already and are seeking to semi-retire that might work? If not someone else better be handling rent or mortgage+taxes

    So how does this all bring in quality individuals. Seems like you can only get the 18 year old living with mom and dad. Not that 18 years old can't be mature.....but most aren't.

  • 82FootballWaxMemorys82FootballWaxMemorys Posts: 1,279 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Mickey71 said:

    @82FootballWaxMemorys said:

    @Mickey71 said:

    @80sOPC said:
    Unless you wear an ankle bracelet, or in witness protection, why not? If there are jobs posted for Newport, and you get one, pack the f150 and off you go.

    @Mickey71 said:
    Can a person accept a job as a grader right now and move to Newport Beach? I'm being serious. I simply can not figure this part out.

    What I meant was....can you afford to live there???

    Not on what PSA or their parent Company pays. Same also applies to New Jersey especially Central and Northern. I guess if in a few years you work your way up in the org you might be able to handle rent on a studio if you eliminate frivolous things like lunch and dinner.

    Now if you live in those areas already and are seeking to semi-retire that might work? If not someone else better be handling rent or mortgage+taxes

    So how does this all bring in quality individuals. Seems like you can only get the 18 year old living with mom and dad. Not that 18 years old can't be mature.....but most aren't.

    It could be worse they could be trying to get the same folks to fund their own move to Sarasota for a low paying job. Nothing like Central Fla in the summer..........

    Unless otherwise specified my posts represent only my opinion, not fact.

  • CardGeekCardGeek Posts: 398 ✭✭✭

    @StamkosFan said:
    Why is everyone talking about Newport Beach? Their PO box is in Newport Beach, but their building is in craphole Santa Ana.

    Craphole Santa Ana, 2 miles from Newport Beach. Walking distance to the beach. I don't know where you live. But, nothing about that area is a craphole. You're talking about one of the richest areas in the world.

  • _EagleEyeKid__EagleEyeKid_ Posts: 273 ✭✭✭
    edited June 16, 2022 3:50PM

    @CardGeek said:

    @StamkosFan said:
    Why is everyone talking about Newport Beach? Their PO box is in Newport Beach, but their building is in craphole Santa Ana.

    Craphole Santa Ana, 2 miles from Newport Beach. Walking distance to the beach. I don't know where you live. But, nothing about that area is a craphole. You're talking about one of the richest areas in the world.

    Maybe you can teleport, but it's not 2 miles.....more like 13-15 miles.

  • CardGeekCardGeek Posts: 398 ✭✭✭
    edited June 16, 2022 7:01PM

    No, It's about 2 miles, Maybe less. if you actually look at where the borders to those cities are. The actual ocean is a little further. But, not much.

  • jeffcbayjeffcbay Posts: 8,948 ✭✭✭✭

    Regardless, probably MUCH cheaper to headquarter somewhere in the Midwest.

  • jeffv96mastersjeffv96masters Posts: 594 ✭✭✭✭

    ESTIMATED-- see below for the fine print

    I can stomach $30 on Ultra Modern time sensitive stuff that "might" make it back in time for XMAS / New Years sales = and as a cheaper economy price point with a longer wait time

    But as far as modern stuff for PC / sales or registry people ?
    PASS

    VALUE SERVICE ==> Like Inego Montoya says Stop using that word- I do not think it means what you think it means :#

    ,
    ,
    ,

  • RufussCkingstonRufussCkingston Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 20, 2022 7:43PM

    @msubearfan said:
    I’d like to see a value service level opened at the $10-$12 range with a turnaround time of “you’ll get them when you get them.”

    That will be the $20 price!! Remember that was the price for a few weeks before they cut off submissions.

  • maddux69maddux69 Posts: 2,130 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I was prepping a sub and noticed that there is the option for 1995-earlier value submissions. Not digging the $30/card though.

  • Jayman1982Jayman1982 Posts: 464 ✭✭✭
    edited July 6, 2022 10:29AM

    @maddux69 said:
    I was prepping a sub and noticed that there is the option for 1995-earlier value submissions. Not digging the $30/card though.

    Well that's a let down, but really, best case in my mind leading up to this was $25/card, and even at that rate it rules out 95% of the pre-1995 cards I have to sub

  • GoDodgersFanGoDodgersFan Posts: 1,391 ✭✭✭

    I will wait for the pre-1995. 15-20 is more realistic for me.

  • olb31olb31 Posts: 2,900 ✭✭✭✭✭

    yeah outside of big time rookies and Mantle, there is hardly any incentive to grade 1995 and back. Maybe 50 different cards in total.

    from 1996 through 2006, there are barely any cards worth $30 a card to grade, also.

    -- the set registry is mainly for sets 1980 and down, grading commons for $30 is basically done

    -- basically it sound like they will be grading around 250 different rookies with autos and mantle and that's about it from 1957 through 2022.

    I've stated over and over just do bulk and everyone wins. $15 for 250 cards. PSA gets $3750 and we get a price range the normal collector/investor can deal with. It's not optimal for either party, but much like a personal relationship, there has to be some give and take.

    Work hard and you will succeed!!
  • miwlvrnmiwlvrn Posts: 4,222 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @olb31 said:

    from 1996 through 2006, there are barely any cards worth $30 a card to grade, also.

    There are a whole lot of very expensive and highly collected items in that date range, but for most of them, their values exceed the limit for value tier.

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