Pack Grading Frustration
Ahmanfan
Posts: 4,389 ✭✭✭✭
I just received my first pack grading sub back from PSA. Of course these sat in their warehouse, or Steve Hart’s warehouse, for over a year before being graded so I’m assuming that didn’t help.
All of these packs are from BBCE group breaks 5-10 years ago on these very boards. Tucked away and then submitted for grading to PSA (and I believe back to Steve Hart), who then rejects the very packs that his company had sold us? Am I off base in saying either pack authentication is a load of BS, or something doesn’t smell right.
Of course, BBCE got their $, and PSA got their cut, and now I’m sitting here with these worthless packs. Huh?! Again all 4 of these from group breaks on here that I’m sure many of you also participated in… bo
Collecting
HOF SIGNED FOOTBALL RCS
HOF SIGNED FOOTBALL RCS
2
Comments
Understand your frustration.
Resubmit ? Or just stay away from the grading game. It has its ups and it unfortunately has its downs.
It is sad the scenario you portrayed especially when your money is involved. We are all human I guess.
Thanks for your reply Golden.
My frustration continues to mount as I see on 2 of the packs the glue on the back flap has dried out/come loose. I would assume from sitting in storage that may or may not be climate controlled for the last 13 months.
I’m going to put a call or email into customer service. This is beyond unacceptable. These were tightly sealed when they left my possession over a year ago.
HOF SIGNED FOOTBALL RCS
I feel the full box certification is much safer than submitting packs.
Sorry about your situation. You must feel slighted.
Sorry to see this. Ugh. That is beyond frustrating! Good luck with it.
yeah, not a good look on so many fronts...sorry to hear/see this happened...of course, unless you have before pics, you are probably up the proverbial river without a paddle
An Elmer's glue stick should fix that pack right up... All PSA pack rejects are easy eBay sells for something... If you know they were legit when you got them, then you should have no qualms selling them "raw"... They aren't altered, it's just a crap shoot where the general thinking is everything has been searched and/or resealed on older wax, so it's almost the same odds as doing a crossover.
Definitely frustrating, but in all fairness there's no way for PSA to verify the source of these packs and if the seal was popped it's an automatic NG. Can you post a close up of the corner folds on the 76 pack? I'm sorry this happened to you.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Thanks for the comment Grote, much appreciated.
Some pics of the 76 below. It’s not popped and again came straight from BBCE, that’s where I’m befuddled.
Again this is exactly how this pack came to me from BBCE. I’m not so sure authenticating that packs are unopened/untampered with is realistic after seeing this inconsistency. My first pack sub.
HOF SIGNED FOOTBALL RCS
Call Steve
I would call Steve and tell him the situation . He might have a better explanation than we here can give you. I sent in over 80 packs of 77 and 78 two years ago and only 2 were graded. I was told , if the gum was broken it is more likely to not be graded.
I was part of a group rip 5 years ago or more and their was an issue with the 76 Topps football packs. Many of us opened them and the cards were clearly not pack fresh. Steve made it right and refunded everyone hassle free. Not sure if this is the same rip or not but possibly that was the issue
So we if the gum is broken suddenly the pack is tampered? Shouldn’t it just possibly grade lower? Curious what the explanation was.
HOF SIGNED FOOTBALL RCS
Did anyone rip the packs from that group break? Wonder what the results were.
CDsNuts, 1/9/15
Anytime Ahmanfan, I know you're a good guy and have been around here for quite a while.
The corner folds look very weak on that pack so I can definitely see why this particular pack did not pass. It's also worth noting here that there are different categories for a pack that doesn't pass from 100% resealed to more questionable packs about which Steve is not fully certain but cannot pass due to reservation.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
If the gum is in parts the pack will not be graded. Not saying it has been tampered with. Better call Saul...err Steve.
Not suggesting that broken gum implies tampering, but it makes it far more likely the gum will slide around and tear the wrapper. I wouldn't be happy with a pack graded 9 with a piece of gum sticking 1/4 inch out through the wrapper.
This is no longer true.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I know how you feel. I had a 1975 cello (Yount rookie on bottom) come back "altered." This is a pack I have owned since 1975. There was a SMALL tear top right corner (probably from the different moves I had). Yeah, sure I'll alter a pack and put one of the most expensive cards on the bottom. I like you thought it may have gotten slabbed and perhaps a lower PSA grade. Too much power for one person. He has known to err as well. To get that pack back after waiting a year with no slab was terrible. Maybe Steve is more cautious now too since the Pokemon debacle.
Gretzky,Ripken, and Sandberg collection. Still trying to complete 1975 Topps baseball set from when I was a kid.
grote. Thanks for the info. I know it used to be. Glad it's changed.
I feel your pain. I had a 79 pack I sent in where the flap popped. What is the most frustraing about it is that I put it in a slab bag and sealed it tight. That flap could not pop if it was previously sealed and put in the bag. When I got it back it was no longer in that slab bag.
I also had a 79 Cello that was deemed altered. I bought it from BBCE probably around the same time as you bought your packs. I called Steve and spoke with him. I ended up mailing him the cello and what he discovered is the pack I had showed inconsistency from the top card and the bottom card. based on the printing sheets. He ripped it and found there was a packaging anomaly which happened from time to time during that era and sent me a new 79 cello. It had nothing to do with the pack itself.
Unfortunately, you're most likely out of luck on the wax pack. When I sent my packs off, I had no idea the turnaround on packs would be so long. I'm sure you didn't either. I knew cards were backed up, but how many people are holding unopened wax they want slabbed? Turns out lot! A lot of it was just on log time. I had stored my packs in the same climate for 7 or 8 years with no issue. Had I known the turnaround woulda been so long I would have just waited it out.
Other issue I had which is still getting sorted out is that I sent two 79 Super Packs in. I swore I read they slabbed those, but apparently I was wrong. Again they were in slab bag and sealed tight. And I wrapped those in bubble wrap. When they returned they were only wrapped in bubble wrap, loosely. One came back no problem. The other came back opened up. When I sent the packs in the declared value was 150 (?) but when I contacted Steve about the other pack I asked him about it, and now they go for 300-400. So we'll see how that plays out. But it's frustrating. I blame myself, but I'm also not happy how they were returned. If they are ungradable, return them the same way they were sent out. They didnt need to be removed from the slab bags for any reason.
Also during all this one of my packs caught a pinhole from the pack of gum. It was graded, but it was probably the nicest looking pack of the three 79s I sent in, and it came back a 6. I dont know if that happened during shipping, or handling or shipping to BBCE or shipping back to PSA but it was a complete bummer, but at least it's graded.
Still haven't opened the pack that popped. I can't resell it. I'm going to sit on it and open it on my birthday probably. I was born in 1979, so I've become quite the fan of that set. Currently working on getting that entire set auto'd and I'm about 70 sigs away but there's probably 4-6 cards I'll never get (Munson, Aaron/Maris, Aaron, Boyer, McLaughlin, Messersmith).
This is a huge problem. If you cannot get a pack authenticated bought from the authenticator - yikes. I can see the one with the open seal - but the others are a major issue. I think Steve owes it to his business to be able to seal wax packs as good (like he does racks and trays) or he should stop selling them.
Not being able to authenticate a pack that he pulls from a sealed box or case makes no sense for him. He knows the provenance and that the pack is good. Now his customers are SOL and are pretty much forced to sell at a discount, keep or open.
Might be time for him to end his relationship with PSA and just wrap them himself so he has the option of selling them that way. Or reach an agreement with PSA that lets him wrap packs from a sealed box or case but still be their pack grader.
Oof. Sorry to hear of your troubles also.
HOF SIGNED FOOTBALL RCS
$5 times infinity tells me he will not be taking your advice. PSA is paying him whether the pack grades or not. He is winning bigly.
this is a problem and it will eat away at the confidence buyers have in unopened. it is just not consistent. authenticating unopened is similar to authenticating autographs. unless you were there to physically witness an item being autographed, you do not know for sure if the item is authentic. you can have a pretty good to fairly confident idea, but you dont know.
similarly, unless you saw a case be unsealed, you dont know if those boxes/packs are truly unsealed. steve has a pretty good idea, but he can be beaten. we saw that just a few months ago. his method of authenticating unopened cases is outdated and suspect at best.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
He is no longer wrapping sealed cases but verifying the contents and wrapping each box within the case as FASC which imo is a much better method as it's far easier to fake a sealed cardboard case than it would be faking the contents within the case.
Steve isn't perfect, but his record of getting things right is unparalleled and as a vintage unopened sports pack collector, I have utmost confidence in his abilities. I know for a fact he is great at what he does. Of course, it's always the 1 mistake out of 100 that gets all the airplay.
There is no greater appeal in the hobby (for me, anyway, as well as for many others) than vintage unopened product and the demand for authenticated product is stronger than ever. Any summary of recent auction results clearly illustrates that fact.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I believe you on the other packs and sucks that the seals dried up. this happens unfortunately. However, that 76 pack does not look like any pack that would have come from a box break on here. no way that was part of a full box. the corners and pack itself look like crap. was it a bbce break, was it a user break?
Authenticate - (verb) to prove or show (something, especially a claim or an artistic work) to be true or genuine.
Steve Hart may be the best, I really don't know, but it's clear that he is NOT authenticating jack. He is giving his opinion. I also think it is a conflict of interest to work for a seller and a grader in this capacity. The Pokemon super debacle cannot be swept under the rug IMO. That was a MAJOR hit to credibility. A million dollar mistake? No thanks.
I dont know or care about Pokemon but there is no doubt Steve is the gold standard when it comes to unopened authentication for sportscards at least. One positive result of the Pokemon episode is that Steve will now open a case to verify its contents before wrapping the boxes within. No question that is the way to go with the authentication of sealed cases going forward for reasons I stated above.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Will PSA reduce pack grading prices soon?
My collecting blog: http://ctcard.wordpress.com
Yes, $50 a pack will be available shortly.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Does the price go higher for more expensive packs ?
About 25 years ago a game used hockey jersey authenticator told me he could have made $5,000 if he approved a game worn Gordie Howe jersey.
He refused to give it his approval.
Yes....
Fair enough though I must push back on one major issue (for me anyway); Steve Hart is not authenticating. He is giving his opinion (for money). Not the same thing. I think the original scenario explained here blows. It makes me trust Steve H, even less. Good luck with your collection! I do trust that you know what you're doing.
Wow. That much. Interesting.
In the hockey world pre-1990 opc it’s very easy to recognize what’s good and what’s bad. Screw ups aren’t even possible. That’s easy money for the authenticator.
I didn't know the case authentication had changed. i agree. that is a MUCH better system
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Explain......
I'm hoping that pack prices continue to come down, back to 25-30. I have some lesser expensive oddball packs I'd like to have in slabs, but they aren't worth more than 10 bucks a pack. They aren't worth those fees, but they would look good in slabs.
Sorry. Not in todays day and age.
But first it’s good to know how cards were set inside the packs. Inserts first ? Cards face up ? Size of the gum ? There’s more to it than that. But if anyone wants to PM me from the National I will gladly tell them if the pack is good or not. Anything from 1989 to 1968 opc hockey is easy.
Here’s a good 68 opc hockey pack.
And by the way, about 25 years ago at the Expo in Mississauga Canada I saw 3 beat to death 1969 opc packs with chewed up corners that were totally legit.
I have opened boxes of 71, 72, 73, and 74 opc baseball as well. Same as hockey. Very easy to tell.
I have received packs from our group rips with ripped corners. The Star Wars Series 1 from a couple of years ago had ripped corners. One of the reasons I will probably rip someday.
Corner tears are not unusual for wax packs in full boxes, but the corner folds should triangular and tight, too.
Quality control was lacking during this era so miswraps are also not unusual, however. It's not an exact science, but you get a feel for what is factory issued after handling enough packs over the years. The corner folds are typically a good place to start, though, along with the seal.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
That sucks, and totally get the frustration over waiting a year to get poor results. I’d still say Steve is the best y grader and BBCE the best place to but packs for my money, but bad circumstances are occasionally part of the collecting game too I guess. I’ve had Popped seals happen and good packs can look bad enough not to grade but still be good so would be interested to see your results when you open and good luck hitting some great cards now that you get to open them!
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