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Slightly confused

BobSavBobSav Posts: 913 ✭✭✭

I'm still trying to get my head around the outrageous premium's for silver. Today on Providents site, 5 oz. silver bars are around $5.69 over spot. 90% silver is almost $10.00 over spot. Why on earth would anyone pay double the already high premium for 90% vs Bars. ?

Past transactions with:
Lordmarcovan, WTCG, YogiBerraFan, Phoenin21, LindeDad, Coll3ctor, blue594, robkoll, Mike Dixon, BloodMan, Flakthat and others.

Comments

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,006 ✭✭✭✭✭

    As always it’s all about supply and demand in the physical world

    there’s limited supply and limited demand

    forget spot where things are unlimited

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • tincuptincup Posts: 4,719 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Definitely hard to make sense of it, based on what we have traditionally used to.

    ----- kj
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 6, 2022 8:51AM

    @tincup said:
    Definitely hard to make sense of it, based on what we have traditionally used to.

    Welcome to the paradigm shift in physical metal pricing

    Delivery of real metal is no longer the same as delivery of paper promises

    This is something that some have been predicting and something that all stackers should welcome

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • BobSavBobSav Posts: 913 ✭✭✭

    @derryb said:

    @tincup said:
    Definitely hard to make sense of it, based on what we have traditionally used to.

    Welcome to the paradigm shift in physical metal pricing

    Delivery of real metal is no longer the same as delivery of paper promises

    This is something that some have been predicting and something that all stackers should welcome

    Why would we welcome sky high premiums that you dont recover when you go to sell ?

    Past transactions with:
    Lordmarcovan, WTCG, YogiBerraFan, Phoenin21, LindeDad, Coll3ctor, blue594, robkoll, Mike Dixon, BloodMan, Flakthat and others.
  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 9,961 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BobSav said:
    I'm still trying to get my head around the outrageous premium's for silver. Today on Providents site, 5 oz. silver bars are around $5.69 over spot. 90% silver is almost $10.00 over spot. Why on earth would anyone pay double the already high premium for 90% vs Bars. ?

    why should any actual item go down in price if its owner refuses to take less than a certain number and is not forced to sell? in most tangible things , the seller sets the price the buyer decides if a sale occurs . now the sellers may be forced to lower prices if they need cash but if they can wait a dip out thats usually what they try to do

    if you want it at spot it will be the paper variety

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 6, 2022 10:11AM

    @BobSav said:

    @derryb said:

    @tincup said:
    Definitely hard to make sense of it, based on what we have traditionally used to.

    Welcome to the paradigm shift in physical metal pricing

    Delivery of real metal is no longer the same as delivery of paper promises

    This is something that some have been predicting and something that all stackers should welcome

    Why would we welcome sky high premiums that you dont recover when you go to sell ?

    You’re assuming that premiums are going down.

    They continue to go up Even in the face of falling spot. there is no indication that premiums are coming down anytime soon

    Anyone not recovering more than their premium paid is selling too low

    Smart Buyers will learn to quit using spot as their reference and start using Yesterdays physical price to make their purchasing decisions

    For too long we have let bullion bank paper traders tell us what we should pay for physical metal. they are two entirely different markets and it appears this reality is evolving.

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,487 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 6, 2022 10:22AM

    @bronco2078 said:

    @BobSav said:
    I'm still trying to get my head around the outrageous premium's for silver. Today on Providents site, 5 oz. silver bars are around $5.69 over spot. 90% silver is almost $10.00 over spot. Why on earth would anyone pay double the already high premium for 90% vs Bars. ?

    why should any actual item go down in price if its owner refuses to take less than a certain number and is not forced to sell?

    We had thos same discussion 11 years ago.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 6, 2022 10:17AM

    Seller floats a Price, last hammer price determines the current value

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • MeltdownMeltdown Posts: 8,600 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,006 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Meltdown said:
    Here we go again... :D

    Not today.

    I presented the reality, floor is all his for some more fantasy

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 9,961 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:

    @bronco2078 said:

    @BobSav said:
    I'm still trying to get my head around the outrageous premium's for silver. Today on Providents site, 5 oz. silver bars are around $5.69 over spot. 90% silver is almost $10.00 over spot. Why on earth would anyone pay double the already high premium for 90% vs Bars. ?

    why should any actual item go down in price if its owner refuses to take less than a certain number and is not forced to sell?

    We had thos same discussion 11 years ago.

    i dont mean in a long term down trend. If spot goes down buyers except sellers to reprice lower and get upset when there are no fire sales. the big dealers freeze at the higher price or put out of stock signs up. The little guys do the same if they can.

    until one side can force the other side to move there is no sale.

    if the buyer is a small fry he pays up or does without.

    most of the silver in question isn't being used by the purchaser so no harm done just be patient and keep your powder dry is my routine.

  • jclovescoinsjclovescoins Posts: 1,843 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 6, 2022 12:04PM

    There is no way that my physical silver is worth 15% LESS this week than it was on April 18.
    I would never sell for this hugely manipulated current price. And it looks to be going under $20.

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,263 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:

    @bronco2078 said:

    @BobSav said:
    I'm still trying to get my head around the outrageous premium's for silver. Today on Providents site, 5 oz. silver bars are around $5.69 over spot. 90% silver is almost $10.00 over spot. Why on earth would anyone pay double the already high premium for 90% vs Bars. ?

    why should any actual item go down in price if its owner refuses to take less than a certain number and is not forced to sell?

    We had thos same discussion 11 years ago.

    The lost decade. Gutter premiums will be back in the gutter before too long. For now if you must, trade the paper variety. RGDS!

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,006 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @blitzdude said:

    The lost decade. Gutter premiums will be back in the gutter before too long. For now if you must, trade the paper variety. RGDS!

    Yet buyers continue to pay the higher premiums. LOL

    I guess everyone is wrong about silver except for you. Have you ever been right about silver?

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • blitzdudeblitzdude Posts: 5,263 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:

    @blitzdude said:

    The lost decade. Gutter premiums will be back in the gutter before too long. For now if you must, trade the paper variety. RGDS!

    Yet buyers continue to pay the higher premiums. LOL

    I guess everyone is wrong about silver except for you. Have you ever been right about silver?

    I've got a few heavy green boxes that I will gladly transfer over to you anytime you are willing to take them at the current premium. Heck for you, I may even knock off a buck or $2. Interested?

    The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.

  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The confusion about silver "premium" can be reduced one thinks of it as collector premium.

    The "nicer" the silver, (rarer, prettier, more popular, more liquid, etc) the more it tends to cost above melt value.

    Collector premium fluctuates over time, and varies depending on the type of item.

    Thought experiment: take any silver item, smash it flat with a sledgehammer. What you're destroying is "premium"

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,006 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Baley said:

    Thought experiment: take any silver item, smash it flat with a sledgehammer. What you're destroying is "premium"

    As physical silver it will still sell for a premium over spot just as do completely worn out pre-1965 silver US coins. The premium is for added value over a paper promise. Amount of premium is determined by demand. And yes, "pretty" adds to premium but nowhere near what perceived quality adds.

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • bronco2078bronco2078 Posts: 9,961 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Baley said:
    The confusion about silver "premium" can be reduced one thinks of it as collector premium.

    The "nicer" the silver, (rarer, prettier, more popular, more liquid, etc) the more it tends to cost above melt value.

    Collector premium fluctuates over time, and varies depending on the type of item.

    Thought experiment: take any silver item, smash it flat with a sledgehammer. What you're destroying is "premium"

    did you take off for a while ?

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,263 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thought experiment: take any silver item, smash it flat with a sledgehammer. What you're destroying is "premium"

    Part of what you're destroying with your sledgehammer is utility, because now you will have melt it down, assay it, and re-fabricate it into a more recognizable form in order to make it easily tradeable. Almost the same as taking a sledgehammer to a Chevy or even a Tesla.

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,487 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @derryb said:

    perceived quality

    Perception is fact. ;)

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • streeterstreeter Posts: 4,312 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:

    @derryb said:

    perceived quality

    Perception is fact. ;)

    What's the frequency Kenneth?

    Have a nice day
  • pmh1nicpmh1nic Posts: 3,116 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The price of silver includes the production cost of the metal, the manufacturing cost to get the metal into a condition attractive to buyers and a premium based on the supply and demand of that finished item.

    The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
  • derrybderryb Posts: 36,006 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cohodk said:

    @derryb said:

    perceived quality

    Perception is fact. ;)

    To the perceiver, but that doesn't mean you are correct.

    "Do you hear alarm bells ringing? Neither do I. And that’s a huge problem." - Simon Black

  • jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 9,573 ✭✭✭✭✭

    .999 cant keep it in the shop, usually sells within 15 min. 90% cant give it away locally. I have to carry 50-100 face weekly to the refinery.

  • jmski52jmski52 Posts: 22,263 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What's the frequency Kenneth?

    :D

    Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally

    I knew it would happen.
  • cohodkcohodk Posts: 18,487 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 9, 2022 5:06AM

    @derryb said:

    @cohodk said:

    @derryb said:

    perceived quality

    Perception is fact. ;)

    To the perceiver, but that doesn't mean you are correct.

    Great thread title, Bob. Seems youre not the only one confused.

    Excuses are tools of the ignorant

    Knowledge is the enemy of fear

  • crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 13,743 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 9, 2022 10:36AM

    So much for silver and gold being a hedge against inflation 😂
    Edited to add if it’s going to turn around it better hurry up😊

    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
  • jclovescoinsjclovescoins Posts: 1,843 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @crazyhounddog said:
    So much for silver and gold being a hedge against inflation 😂

    The worst hedge imaginable. I will not fall for the stupidity of it being an inflation hedge again. I fell for it once in 2011, and now again. lol

  • crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 13,743 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Silver is down to $20.90 this morning. 😳

    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
  • MeltdownMeltdown Posts: 8,600 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @crazyhounddog said:
    Silver is down to $20.90 this morning. 😳

    Even though I accept that the paper market is manipulated and a bit rigged it's still amazing to me how quickly it can be smacked down.

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