@BLUEJAYWAY said:
Didn't Rick Snow some years ago have a high end Indian Head cent cent stolen from him at a show? I believe there was a thread created here about it.
@Lakesammman said:
Wonder why the front window is boarded up with chipboard -- was there a previous break in or vandalism??
I am not 100%, but it sounds like it was linked to a previous incident ...
"Police are at Bellevue Rare Coins in The Junction right now, investigating a robbery. No details available but looking inside the store, we could see that at least one of the cases was smashed. It’s been just three weeks since the business had windows smashed by a person described in the police report as a disgruntled client." Source
Edited to add:
It appears that two of the robbery suspects have been identified. Link
Those 2 have been doing quite the rounds in this area....robbing pot shots and shooting an employee....and getting released time and again.
They are hitting the easier targets (ie...not banks but places with lots of cash) and don't care the damage or who they hurt....and they know that, even if caught, they will be easily released again. Sad
In L.A. gang members are targeting the wealthy in upscale restaurants, swank shops, high value cars etc. and robbing them after they leave or get home.
And if the owner killed one or all of them it would of been gun violence, parents would be in a outrage how there son wouldn’t hurt anyone and want justices.
I have a fold up dolly so I take everything in / out of the show in one trip.
For security reasons, It is good idea leave a little before show closing time. It’s not uncommon for bourse room to be close to empty on a Sunday close to close anyway. Be aware how late security is running…
I take everything out in one trip quickly looking around on the way to car. Unless security watching - Your essentially a sitting duck. Quickly put it in car then drive nonstop to destination, looking for any suspicious cars. Once miles away may start to relax a little. I never, ever leave it unattended / out of my sight. If need eat go thru drive thru assuming coast looks clear. Mastered eating in car.
A friend who did mostly gold coins the stress of it at risk during travel got to him especially airports. Had a screwball guy on a plane probably a con man tell me he was a minister taking his wife to funeral asking if I could swap seats with her a few rows back / told him no. My coins from show in bc in oh bin plane about to takeoff.
During show setup never relax until inventory in my display cases locked. if I leave table during show cases are locked. In showing coins never allow someone reach inside a case. Also limit what your showing them if need be, keeping tally sheet, doing that deal, taking the money then moving to next deal.
I was at that Melville show earlier that morning. I hate to hear things like this but these robberies or smash & grab type thefts are getting more common. I've gotten to know some of the dealers in Melville and so many of them are good people. Even with added security, I'm sure many dealers will be re-thinking how much inventory they plan on bringing to future shows.
Always looking for attractive rim toned Morgan and Peace dollars in PCGS or (older) ANA/ANACS holders!
"Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."
@BLUEJAYWAY said:
Didn't Rick Snow some years ago have a high end Indian Head cent cent stolen from him at a show? I believe there was a thread created here about it.
Yes, a pr65 64L
I remember large cent dealer Tom Reynolds talking about a theft. When he looked through a particular auction, the "owner" turned out to be in Russia if memory serves, he realized these were the coins that were stolen from him years before and he was able to get the auction lots pulled.
While I despise violence, I would be tempted to break a thief like that in half like a boy if I ran into him.
@BLUEJAYWAY said:
Didn't Rick Snow some years ago have a high end Indian Head cent cent stolen from him at a show? I believe there was a thread created here about it.
Yes, a pr65 64L
I remember large cent dealer Tom Reynolds talking about a theft. When he looked through a particular auction, the "owner" turned out to be in Russia if memory serves, he realized these were the coins that were stolen from him years before and he was able to get the auction lots pulled.
While I despise violence, I would be tempted to break a thief like that in half like a boy if I ran into him.
Wouldn't those coins be in possession of the auction company?
Years ago...around 1986 I'm in the car corral of Hershey. A 1936 Cad dual cowl phaeton shows up for sale by a very respected dealer. An acquaintance recognizes the car had been stolen in 1966 from a back yard in Brookline, Mass. Calls the 'owner' who had a separate briefcase with police report etc. Owner gets a 24 law enforcement hold on the car and drives the 11hr trip in 7hrs. Takes his keys out and starts the car. The dealer had no idea.
My point is: Reynolds coins could have passed through many hands and the overseas owner may have had no idea. Or maybe he did. Lol.
@BLUEJAYWAY said:
Didn't Rick Snow some years ago have a high end Indian Head cent cent stolen from him at a show? I believe there was a thread created here about it.
Yes, a pr65 64L
I remember large cent dealer Tom Reynolds talking about a theft. When he looked through a particular auction, the "owner" turned out to be in Russia if memory serves, he realized these were the coins that were stolen from him years before and he was able to get the auction lots pulled.
While I despise violence, I would be tempted to break a thief like that in half like a boy if I ran into him.
Wouldn't those coins be in possession of the auction company?
Years ago...around 1986 I'm in the car corral of Hershey. A 1936 Cad dual cowl phaeton shows up for sale by a very respected dealer. An acquaintance recognizes the car had been stolen in 1966 from a back yard in Brookline, Mass. Calls the 'owner' who had a separate briefcase with police report etc. Owner gets a 24 law enforcement hold on the car and drives the 11hr trip in 7hrs. Takes his keys out and starts the car. The dealer had no idea.
My point is: Reynolds coins could have passed through many hands and the overseas owner may have had no idea. Or maybe he did. Lol.
I believe that no matter how many hands the stolen coins might have passed through, legal title to them wouldn’t have passed. And that if the original owner could prove that the coins were his and that they had been stolen, legally, eventually, he’d be entitled to get them back. That assumes that he hadn’t already been compensated for them by an insurance company.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I believe that no matter how many hands the stolen coins might have passed through, legal title to them wouldn’t have passed. And that if the original owner could prove that the coins were his and that they had been stolen, legally, eventually, he’d be entitled to get them back. That assumes that he hadn’t already been compensated for them by an insurance company.
So, that brings me to something that I have wondered and may as well ask....
If the original owner, who had had them stolen, HAD been compensated by an insurance company, I understand that they would then belong to the insurance company.
HOWEVER, could the owner have the right to return the money in order to retain the coins?
Or, is that up to the insurance company? Have people heard of it happening? What has happened?
Kind of curious as, if one had a somewhat difficult to find, for them, coin, and it was stolen, and they were compensated, then it was recovered...it may be hard to have found a replacement that felt the same to them...from a collector's pov.
So, that brings me to something that I have wondered and may as well ask....
If the original owner, who had had them stolen, HAD been compensated by an insurance company, I understand that they would then belong to the insurance company.
HOWEVER, could the owner have the right to return the money in order to retain the coins?
Or, is that up to the insurance company? Have people heard of it happening? What has happened?
Kind of curious as, if one had a somewhat difficult to find, for them, coin, and it was stolen, and they were compensated, then it was recovered...it may be hard to have found a replacement that felt the same to them...from a collector's pov.
So while I’ve been fortunate/lucky (so far) in not having had coins stolen as they get shipped back and forth (PCGS, CAC, etc.), there’s absolutely NO DOUBT in my mind that if I received insurance proceeds on stolen coins, I would absolutely let the insurance company know that if the coins were recovered, I’d really want to return the insurance money and get the coins back!
Steve
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
I believe that no matter how many hands the stolen coins might have passed through, legal title to them wouldn’t have passed. And that if the original owner could prove that the coins were his and that they had been stolen, legally, eventually, he’d be entitled to get them back. That assumes that he hadn’t already been compensated for them by an insurance company.
So, that brings me to something that I have wondered and may as well ask....
If the original owner, who had had them stolen, HAD been compensated by an insurance company, I understand that they would then belong to the insurance company.
HOWEVER, could the owner have the right to return the money in order to retain the coins?
Or, is that up to the insurance company? Have people heard of it happening? What has happened?
Kind of curious as, if one had a somewhat difficult to find, for them, coin, and it was stolen, and they were compensated, then it was recovered...it may be hard to have found a replacement that felt the same to them...from a collector's pov.
I’m all but certain that unless there’s specific language in the insurance contract - and I don’t know how often there is - the option would be with the insurance carrier, not the insured.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
With regards to Bellevue Rare Coins robbery, send a thank you note to the judge.
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
I believe that no matter how many hands the stolen coins might have passed through, legal title to them wouldn’t have passed. And that if the original owner could prove that the coins were his and that they had been stolen, legally, eventually, he’d be entitled to get them back. That assumes that he hadn’t already been compensated for them by an insurance company.
So, that brings me to something that I have wondered and may as well ask....
If the original owner, who had had them stolen, HAD been compensated by an insurance company, I understand that they would then belong to the insurance company.
HOWEVER, could the owner have the right to return the money in order to retain the coins?
Or, is that up to the insurance company? Have people heard of it happening? What has happened?
Kind of curious as, if one had a somewhat difficult to find, for them, coin, and it was stolen, and they were compensated, then it was recovered...it may be hard to have found a replacement that felt the same to them...from a collector's pov.
I’m all but certain that unless there’s specific language in the insurance contract - and I don’t know how often there is - the option would be with the insurance carrier, not the insured.
Considering that the market can change dramatically between the date of the claim and the date the coins are recovered, that seems like the only way the law could be written.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Politics had already become toxic before I joined here in 2018 and is obviously not allowed.
Question: Was that rule a rule back in say 2003, 08, or even 14?
Asking for a friend
@Coinscratch said:
The second amendment comes to mind unfortunately I can’t even exercise the first one here.
Certainly you can! You won't be imprisoned for expressing your opinions at all and, unless making threats or endangering people, the government does not care at all what you have to say.
However, PCGS/collectors.com is a private entity and ALSO has the right to express themselves. In addition to that right, they are potentially liable for any content hosted on their site and as such set rules that users agree to abide by.
So feel free to express your first amendment rights. Just be prepared for our hosts to potentially do the same...which may include them no longer wishing to provide you with a place to post opinions with which they do not agree or do not allow.
Such is life in corporate America where everyone has a lawyer and corporations are people.
@Coinscratch said:
Yea I get all that but You mean their right to cancel.
No. If you don't like the rules and decide to stop posting, have you "cancelled" PCGS?
They are a private entity that provides a service (for free when it comes to the forums!) and have the right to dictate terms to how they will offer that service in addition to their legal liability going along with that service. If one chooses not to follow the rules they can choose to remove that person.
If someone starts screaming obscenities at a restaurant, even though within their 1A rights, and the restaurant makes that person leave (also within their rights)...has the person screaming obscenities been "cancelled"? Same idea.
@Coinscratch said:
Yea I get all that but You mean their right to cancel.
No. If you don't like the rules and decide to stop posting, have you "cancelled" PCGS?
They are a private entity that provides a service (for free when it comes to the forums!) and have the right to dictate terms to how they will offer that service in addition to their legal liability going along with that service. If one chooses not to follow the rules they can choose to remove that person.
If someone starts screaming obscenities at a restaurant, even though within their 1A rights, and the restaurant makes that person leave (also within their rights)...has the person screaming obscenities been "cancelled"? Same idea.
Yes I understand exactly what your saying. And I understand that my comment was a little bit off the cuff.
I get it. But it lead me to the question:
Has this policy on politics always been their stance or was it put in place sometime in the past few years?
I believe that no matter how many hands the stolen coins might have passed through, legal title to them wouldn’t have passed. And that if the original owner could prove that the coins were his and that they had been stolen, legally, eventually, he’d be entitled to get them back. That assumes that he hadn’t already been compensated for them by an insurance company.
So, that brings me to something that I have wondered and may as well ask....
If the original owner, who had had them stolen, HAD been compensated by an insurance company, I understand that they would then belong to the insurance company.
HOWEVER, could the owner have the right to return the money in order to retain the coins?
Or, is that up to the insurance company? Have people heard of it happening? What has happened?
Kind of curious as, if one had a somewhat difficult to find, for them, coin, and it was stolen, and they were compensated, then it was recovered...it may be hard to have found a replacement that felt the same to them...from a collector's pov.
I’m all but certain that unless there’s specific language in the insurance contract - and I don’t know how often there is - the option would be with the insurance carrier, not the insured.
Yeah...I figured that and understand that. If the value hadn't really changed though, and the item was recovered, that why I was wondering "Have people heard of it happening? What has happened?"
@Coinscratch said:
Yea I get all that but You mean their right to cancel.
No. If you don't like the rules and decide to stop posting, have you "cancelled" PCGS?
They are a private entity that provides a service (for free when it comes to the forums!) and have the right to dictate terms to how they will offer that service in addition to their legal liability going along with that service. If one chooses not to follow the rules they can choose to remove that person.
If someone starts screaming obscenities at a restaurant, even though within their 1A rights, and the restaurant makes that person leave (also within their rights)...has the person screaming obscenities been "cancelled"? Same idea.
Yes I understand exactly what your saying. And I understand that my comment was a little bit off the cuff.
I get it. But it lead me to the question:
Has this policy on politics always been their stance or was it put in place sometime in the past few years?
Whose stance? One has been trying to cancel science for almost 100 years now.
Please refrain from making political comments here!
@Coinscratch said:
I’m not trying to get everybody up in a tizzy here. I was curious if that rule has always applied.
You want the honest truth?
No, it didn't always apply.
However, people started taking things way too far and things got heated...and instead of just talking coins, people got way too into politics and people would run to PCGS/mods. Long time ago, there was an open forum. That was the place for things not numismatics related. Then, certain people took things way too far there and others that purported to have thick skins really didn't. They tried to dish things out and couldn't take it...
Ultimately, PCGS removed the open forum and locked things down a bit more with moderation. This changed, usually getting stronger, with each change.
The US Coin Forum really should be about numismatics around "US Coins"....but, even with other threads, we see that really isn't the case.
So, back in 2014, yes...politics were banned.
Back in 2008, it really was getting that way.
Back in 2003....no, it was more Wild Wild West.
Thank you @Bochiman And of course the answer was always no, no it hasn't always been that way. For me it just proves a (moot) point. One that I don't need to express here on a COIN forum.
I bite my tongue and rest my case.
Thanks!
"Discretion is the better part of valor."
Or something close.
Sometimes it's best just not saying it. I don't have enough fingers and toes to count the many times I've witnessed people causing a lot of damage just by opening their big mouth.
Comments
Didn't Rick Snow some years ago have a high end Indian Head cent cent stolen from him at a show? I believe there was a thread created here about it.
Yes, a pr65 64L
Did business with Bellevue RC and they seemed like pretty good guys. A real shame.
In L.A. gang members are targeting the wealthy in upscale restaurants, swank shops, high value cars etc. and robbing them after they leave or get home.
And if the owner killed one or all of them it would of been gun violence, parents would be in a outrage how there son wouldn’t hurt anyone and want justices.
Hoard the keys.
I have a fold up dolly so I take everything in / out of the show in one trip.
For security reasons, It is good idea leave a little before show closing time. It’s not uncommon for bourse room to be close to empty on a Sunday close to close anyway. Be aware how late security is running…
I take everything out in one trip quickly looking around on the way to car. Unless security watching - Your essentially a sitting duck. Quickly put it in car then drive nonstop to destination, looking for any suspicious cars. Once miles away may start to relax a little. I never, ever leave it unattended / out of my sight. If need eat go thru drive thru assuming coast looks clear. Mastered eating in car.
A friend who did mostly gold coins the stress of it at risk during travel got to him especially airports. Had a screwball guy on a plane probably a con man tell me he was a minister taking his wife to funeral asking if I could swap seats with her a few rows back / told him no. My coins from show in bc in oh bin plane about to takeoff.
During show setup never relax until inventory in my display cases locked. if I leave table during show cases are locked. In showing coins never allow someone reach inside a case. Also limit what your showing them if need be, keeping tally sheet, doing that deal, taking the money then moving to next deal.
I was at that Melville show earlier that morning. I hate to hear things like this but these robberies or smash & grab type thefts are getting more common. I've gotten to know some of the dealers in Melville and so many of them are good people. Even with added security, I'm sure many dealers will be re-thinking how much inventory they plan on bringing to future shows.
"Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."
~Wayne
I remember large cent dealer Tom Reynolds talking about a theft. When he looked through a particular auction, the "owner" turned out to be in Russia if memory serves, he realized these were the coins that were stolen from him years before and he was able to get the auction lots pulled.
While I despise violence, I would be tempted to break a thief like that in half like a boy if I ran into him.
Wouldn't those coins be in possession of the auction company?
Years ago...around 1986 I'm in the car corral of Hershey. A 1936 Cad dual cowl phaeton shows up for sale by a very respected dealer. An acquaintance recognizes the car had been stolen in 1966 from a back yard in Brookline, Mass. Calls the 'owner' who had a separate briefcase with police report etc. Owner gets a 24 law enforcement hold on the car and drives the 11hr trip in 7hrs. Takes his keys out and starts the car. The dealer had no idea.
My point is: Reynolds coins could have passed through many hands and the overseas owner may have had no idea. Or maybe he did. Lol.
I believe that no matter how many hands the stolen coins might have passed through, legal title to them wouldn’t have passed. And that if the original owner could prove that the coins were his and that they had been stolen, legally, eventually, he’d be entitled to get them back. That assumes that he hadn’t already been compensated for them by an insurance company.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
So, that brings me to something that I have wondered and may as well ask....
If the original owner, who had had them stolen, HAD been compensated by an insurance company, I understand that they would then belong to the insurance company.
HOWEVER, could the owner have the right to return the money in order to retain the coins?
Or, is that up to the insurance company? Have people heard of it happening? What has happened?
Kind of curious as, if one had a somewhat difficult to find, for them, coin, and it was stolen, and they were compensated, then it was recovered...it may be hard to have found a replacement that felt the same to them...from a collector's pov.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
So while I’ve been fortunate/lucky (so far) in not having had coins stolen as they get shipped back and forth (PCGS, CAC, etc.), there’s absolutely NO DOUBT in my mind that if I received insurance proceeds on stolen coins, I would absolutely let the insurance company know that if the coins were recovered, I’d really want to return the insurance money and get the coins back!
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
I’m all but certain that unless there’s specific language in the insurance contract - and I don’t know how often there is - the option would be with the insurance carrier, not the insured.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I usually go to Melville every 2 weeks, and missed this show, thankfully.
Tax season
BHNC #203
With regards to Bellevue Rare Coins robbery, send a thank you note to the judge.
Considering that the market can change dramatically between the date of the claim and the date the coins are recovered, that seems like the only way the law could be written.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Whenever leaving a show go to a local neighborhood right off the highway. Take three rights and if you are being follow they will show themselves.
bob
The second amendment comes to mind unfortunately I can’t even exercise the first one here.
😆
Politics had already become toxic before I joined here in 2018 and is obviously not allowed.
Question: Was that rule a rule back in say 2003, 08, or even 14?
Asking for a friend
Certainly you can! You won't be imprisoned for expressing your opinions at all and, unless making threats or endangering people, the government does not care at all what you have to say.
However, PCGS/collectors.com is a private entity and ALSO has the right to express themselves. In addition to that right, they are potentially liable for any content hosted on their site and as such set rules that users agree to abide by.
So feel free to express your first amendment rights. Just be prepared for our hosts to potentially do the same...which may include them no longer wishing to provide you with a place to post opinions with which they do not agree or do not allow.
Such is life in corporate America where everyone has a lawyer and corporations are people.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
It's not the government that's forbidding you exercising your "first one here". FFS, go back to an entry level civics class.
10-4,
My Instagram picturesErik
My registry sets
Yea I get all that but You mean their right to cancel.
I’m not trying to get everybody up in a tizzy here. I was curious if that rule has always applied.
No. If you don't like the rules and decide to stop posting, have you "cancelled" PCGS?
They are a private entity that provides a service (for free when it comes to the forums!) and have the right to dictate terms to how they will offer that service in addition to their legal liability going along with that service. If one chooses not to follow the rules they can choose to remove that person.
If someone starts screaming obscenities at a restaurant, even though within their 1A rights, and the restaurant makes that person leave (also within their rights)...has the person screaming obscenities been "cancelled"? Same idea.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
Yes I understand exactly what your saying. And I understand that my comment was a little bit off the cuff.
I get it. But it lead me to the question:
Has this policy on politics always been their stance or was it put in place sometime in the past few years?
What exactly was this pair doing there before setup began? The thieves should have bought Netflix puts instead.
Early American Copper, Bust and Seated.
Yeah...I figured that and understand that. If the value hadn't really changed though, and the item was recovered, that why I was wondering "Have people heard of it happening? What has happened?"
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Since 1788.> @Coinscratch said:
Whose stance? One has been trying to cancel science for almost 100 years now.
Please refrain from making political comments here!
You want the honest truth?
No, it didn't always apply.
However, people started taking things way too far and things got heated...and instead of just talking coins, people got way too into politics and people would run to PCGS/mods. Long time ago, there was an open forum. That was the place for things not numismatics related. Then, certain people took things way too far there and others that purported to have thick skins really didn't. They tried to dish things out and couldn't take it...
Ultimately, PCGS removed the open forum and locked things down a bit more with moderation. This changed, usually getting stronger, with each change.
The US Coin Forum really should be about numismatics around "US Coins"....but, even with other threads, we see that really isn't the case.
So, back in 2014, yes...politics were banned.
Back in 2008, it really was getting that way.
Back in 2003....no, it was more Wild Wild West.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Thank you @Bochiman And of course the answer was always no, no it hasn't always been that way. For me it just proves a (moot) point. One that I don't need to express here on a COIN forum.
I bite my tongue and rest my case.
Thanks!
Please refer to Shakespeare's quote:
"Discretion is the better part of valor."
Or something close.
Sometimes it's best just not saying it. I don't have enough fingers and toes to count the many times I've witnessed people causing a lot of damage just by opening their big mouth.