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Real or Fantasy: Fort Sumter Military Hospital token from Department of Indian Affairs?

ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,863 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited April 9, 2022 8:34AM in U.S. Coin Forum

The following Fort Sumter token issued by the U.S. Department of Indian Affairs is interesting.

It says L.A. Stamp on it for the L.A. Stamp and Rubber company. This company did many fantasy tokens so at first I thought this was one, but the dealer says it's authentic.

A few questions:

  1. Was this token issued by the U.S. Department of Indian Affairs?
  2. Why did L.A. Stamp (and Rubber) Company create so many fantasy tokens? Were they all to to be used in various movies, or were there other reasons?
  3. What does "AI CONDITION" mean? I can only think of "Artificial Intelligence", which is Google returns now, even for healthcare.



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    291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,937 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If in doubt ... pass.

    All glory is fleeting.
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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,863 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Wow, it's good to know there were two companies, "L.A.Stamp" and "L.A. Rubber Stamp". Does anyone know who issued the "L.A. Stamp pieces"?

    The article has a lot of good info and photos. Here's some of the text. Click through for more.


    David E. Schenkman said:
    Marked L.A. Stamp

    All collectors and dealers should be aware that any piece with the words "L.A. Stamp" on it is a fantasy (no original ever existed). The words loosely resemble the legitimate mark of the Los Angles Rubber Stamp Company which signed many of its pieces "L.A. RUB. STAMP CO". Use of the false marking on the fantasies was obviously to suggest an appearance of authenticity related to the authentic firm. Most of the fantasy pieces also have misleading dates such as "1884", "1879", "1915" and others.

    The fantasy L.A. Stamp piece have plagued buyers for over 20 years. Over 30 fantasy L.A. Stamp pieces are known. They feature many of the most popular subjects with collectors including Coca-Cola, railroads, whiskey, military themes and American Indian affairs. Most advanced token collectors are aware of the L.A. Stamp pieces but collectors who buy according to subject matter (ie. Coke, railroad, etc.,) seldom realize the pieces are modern.

    No one shape or style categorizes the L.A. fantasies. As you can see from the samples shown, many different blanks and techniques were used. Materials include lead, copper, brass and white metal.

    David E. Schenkman has written extensively on tokens and medals for the TAMS Journal, the official publication of the Token and Medal Society.

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    nk1nknk1nk Posts: 477 ✭✭✭✭

    AI possible meaning ad interim (temporary condition) 🤷🏽‍♂️ Best guess

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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,548 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Fantasy garbage.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,415 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Is this the same company that made all those brothel tokens that were popular flea market fodder back in the 1960s?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

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    tokenprotokenpro Posts: 846 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:
    Is this the same company that made all those brothel tokens that were popular flea market fodder back in the 1960s?

    No. The original plain brass brothel tokens (38-40mm) were mass distributed by Blackhawk Productions with a mailing address (IIRC) in New England. They were most probably the entity that ordered the tokens but I have no information on who actually struck those tokens. The price was something like $35/100 pcs at the time. The similar but slightly later and smaller 34-36mm tokens were struck by a different company which also struck other Western & railroad fantasies. These brass pieces were probably based on a silver 38-40mm Madame Ruth Jacobs, GF One Screw fantasy that was available in the mid-1960's.

    The L.A. Stamp pieces are again produced by a different company which also is responsible for the (unsigned) Channel Island - Nazi fantasies in brass and zinc that waste both time and space. A fabricator in Connecticut in the 1970's & 80's openly offered a price list of unidentified copies of Oregon Beaver trade piece, Hudson Bay trade pieces, trade silver and other early pieces. A well known collector struck copies of a number of Western trade tokens using original Puget Sound Stamp Works dies. A different party faked a number of scarce Montana trade tokens and yet other parties have done a number on Nevada and New Mexico trade tokens. The fantasy Confederate half dollar I.D. pieces come from a different source as well; this producer is also responsible for the fake Southern Crosses and a number of the KKK restrikes and fantasies. Common and rare Civil War tokens have been traced to overseas manufacturers with a number of pieces from Greece and Slavic countries noted. Cast pieces of common CWTs have been around for about 30 years and have even showed up in quantity in ANA on line auction lots -- I had a customer that quit collecting because over 50% of the CWTs he purchased from a Top-3 auction company's ANA sale were bad.

    Thousands of art medals (including SOM) have been purchased and shipped to China, many to collectors but others may soon turn up in quantity if they are not already out there. Wait until they discover (more) tokens.

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,863 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 10, 2022 1:14PM

    Lots of good information @tokenpro!

    @tokenpro said:
    A well known collector struck copies of a number of Western trade tokens using original Puget Sound Stamp Works dies.

    Who's the well known collector? Is there any info on what this person struck?

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