Ofcourse rare and or unique special exciting coins are sometimes given leeway. Some of these have sold for six and seven figures, some even with the CAC sticker!
Having examined the gold buffalo RAW, in my humble opinion…
It never circulated. It was not found in change or in a junk box.
There are not the typical circulation marks normally found on AU coins. It has retained most of its luster and, as I mentioned in my article… it kind if has a matte frost or look to it!
There is rub on the high points, once again in my humble opinion due to being handled, touched and looked at the old fashion way. Person to person by hand to hand.
Clearly no marks from bouncing in a horse or buggy or even a Ford Model T. No marks from being in a penny arcade machine a century ago.
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
Ofcourse rare and or unique special exciting coins are sometimes given leeway. Some of these have sold for six and seven figures, some even with the CAC sticker!
Having examined the gold buffalo RAW, in my humble opinion…
It never circulated. It was not found in change or in a junk box.
There are not the typical circulation marks normally found on AU coins. It has retained most of its luster and, as I mentioned in my article… it kind if has a matte frost or look to it!
There is rub on the high points, once again in my humble opinion due to being handled, touched and looked at the old fashion way. Person to person by hand to hand.
Clearly no marks from bouncing in a horse or buggy or even a Ford Model T. No marks from being in a penny arcade machine a century ago.
Thanks for the observations Mike. It certainly looks much better than a 53 from the photos so it's great to have your in-hand perspective.
I wouldn't be surprised if it's recognized as uncirculated in the future.
“ Here's the 1880 Coiled Hair Stella example, with a huge price jump!
61 isn't a typically a very desirable grade, but it is compared to having no grade!
$258,500 as UNC Details Polished
$504,000 as PF61”
Yes! Clearly another example of a six figure increase once a net detail gets into a straight grade!
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
It's interesting to wonder if the coin was struck intentionally or if it was a true error. On the one hand, it seems far more likely that a gold Buffalo Nickel would be intentional. First, because it's so rare, and second, because we assume that the Mint was especially careful about the way it controlled the flow of gold around the Mint. But this piece is from heavily worn dies, which seems an odd choice for a Mint employee intentionally striking a special piece. Also, if the coin was struck intentionally, it would have been treasured from the moment it was struck, and less likely to ever fall into the hands of someone who would take a file to it. Of course we'll probably never know the actual circumstances of the coin's creation, but it's still intriguing.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
@MrEureka said:
It's interesting to wonder if the coin was struck intentionally or if it was a true error. On the one hand, it seems far more likely that a gold Buffalo Nickel would be intentional. First, because it's so rare, and second, because we assume that the Mint was especially careful about the way it controlled the flow of gold around the Mint. But this piece is from heavily worn dies, which seems an odd choice for a Mint employee intentionally striking a special piece. Also, if the coin was struck intentionally, it would have been treasured from the moment it was struck, and less likely to ever fall into the hands of someone who would take a file to it. Of course we'll probably never know the actual circumstances of the coin's creation, but it's still intriguing.
You bring up some very good points Andy. Why was this created using worn dies, and why was it tested to see if it was really gold? Those are very interesting thoughts on this being a legitimate error.
Of note, Tom indicated he no problem accepting this coin as a legitimate error.
@Byers said:
Obviously intentionally struck gold Indian Cents.
Cynic that I am, I have no problem accepting the gold struck cents and the nickel as legitimate errors.
When I worked for Coin World I belonged to the Shelby County Coin Club. Our Treasurer (I was Secretary) was the #2 man in the Sidney Police force. He had enough clout that all of the take from the city parking meters came through his office before being discovered. Over the years he found two normal $2-1/2 gold pieces that had apparently been placed into meters as dimes. I can see a gold planchet finding its way into a cent or nickel press. Probably not a dime or a quarter press, because I think that silver coins were inspected more closely after they were struck than minor coins were.
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
“ Struck during the era of the five known world famous 1913 Liberty Head Nickels valued at millions each, this unique Gold Buffalo Nickel is either a mint error or a piece de caprice. It was likely made for a Mint official or a famous numismatist. It also could have been struck for presentation purposes but is not listed in Judd as a pattern.”
As noted earlier, more research is being conducted and it’s premature to comment further…
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
It would be interesting to see how much it will bring in the auction for this NGC AU53. I am pretty sure it will be lot more than 78K Details. Mint error coins are hot.
Ofcourse rare and or unique special exciting coins are sometimes given leeway. Some of these have sold for six and seven figures, some even with the CAC sticker!
Having examined the gold buffalo RAW, in my humble opinion…
It never circulated. It was not found in change or in a junk box.
There are not the typical circulation marks normally found on AU coins. It has retained most of its luster and, as I mentioned in my article… it kind if has a matte frost or look to it!
There is rub on the high points, once again in my humble opinion due to being handled, touched and looked at the old fashion way. Person to person by hand to hand.
Clearly no marks from bouncing in a horse or buggy or even a Ford Model T. No marks from being in a penny arcade machine a century ago.
Could you please post the corresponding image of the reverse?
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
P.S. It wasn’t sold two months ago, you are a year off.
I actually have no problem with this holder. This is how we used to certify coins with a problem at ANACS. Give the proper technical grade, AND list the problem. People know what they are getting.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@MrEureka said:
It's interesting to wonder if the coin was struck intentionally or if it was a true error. On the one hand, it seems far more likely that a gold Buffalo Nickel would be intentional. First, because it's so rare, and second, because we assume that the Mint was especially careful about the way it controlled the flow of gold around the Mint. But this piece is from heavily worn dies, which seems an odd choice for a Mint employee intentionally striking a special piece. Also, if the coin was struck intentionally, it would have been treasured from the moment it was struck, and less likely to ever fall into the hands of someone who would take a file to it. Of course we'll probably never know the actual circumstances of the coin's creation, but it's still intriguing.
The above statement makes a lot of sense, well thought out.
Here is the image of the 4th coin mentioned in the article:
“… A few examples include the unique cancelled 1860 Seated Liberty Half Dollar Pattern in Copper (Judd-269), the unique cancelled 2011-2013 Martha Washington Quarter Test Piece (Judd-2225), the unique 1814 platinum Bust Half (Judd-44a) with punch marks and graffiti, and the Dexter 1804 Dollar with a counterstamp "D" that is worth several million dollars.”
It’s the unique Judd 2225 cancelled Martha Washington Test Piece. After 12 years it is still unique. None are known in private hands without the cancelation either! NGC encapsulated this in a regular holder.
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
@Byers said: @Zoins
Here is the image of the 4th coin mentioned in the article:
“… A few examples include the unique cancelled 1860 Seated Liberty Half Dollar Pattern in Copper (Judd-269), the unique cancelled 2011-2013 Martha Washington Quarter Test Piece (Judd-2225), the unique 1814 platinum Bust Half (Judd-44a) with punch marks and graffiti, and the Dexter 1804 Dollar with a counterstamp "D" that is worth several million dollars.”
It’s the unique Judd 2225 cancelled Martha Washington Test Piece. After 12 years it is still unique. None are known in private hands without the cancelation either! NGC encapsulated this in a regular holder.
That's an amazing pattern coin and rarity Mike! I'm fascinated by the new Martha Washington pattern designs! It's incredible that after all these years, only a single specimen exists of this type for this important era of US Mint coin design creation!
I'm glad Andy @MrEureka and Saul assigned a Judd number for it too!
@Zoins said:
Here's the 1880 Coiled Hair Stella example, with a huge price jump!
61 isn't typically a very desirable grade, but it is compared to having no grade!
$258,500 as UNC Details Polished
$504,000 as PF61
It is absolutely shameful that the Stella stickered. This is why NGC coins languish.
I don't think NGC languishes for ultra rarities like this.
The Stella result looks strong, even compared to the PCGS Price Guide. Though PCGS doesn't offer a price for 1880 Coiled Hair PR61, PCGS shows 50% discount from 64 to 62 for 1879 Coiled Hair, so using the same discount, this coin essentially sold for a PCGS PR62 price ($1M * 50% = $500k).
Also, both TPGs will straight grade ultra rarities, like the bronze cent posted above in this thread.
“Also, both TPGs will straight grade ultra rarities, like the bronze cent posted above in this thread.”
Obviously it goes both ways!
Zoins example of the NGC detail graded 1943 Copper Cent getting into a straight grade PCGS holder:
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
Interesting die crack on the obverse of the Gold Buffalo:
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
@Byers said:
Interesting die crack on the obverse of the Gold Buffalo:
Great diagnostic Mike! It would be nice to track this down and associate it with other coins. The reverse is a Type 2.
I wouldn't rule out the possibility that the Obverse was only used on Type 1's. And IF that's the case - not that I have reason to expect it - the coin is a mule and we'll pretty much know for sure that the coin was struck intentionally.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
And as I previously mentioned in the thread, more research is being done regarding how it was produced, it’s pedigree, etc…
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
Since NGC encapsulated it in a regular holder, we are leaving it that way.
It looks great in their holder.
If the new owner decides to ask PCGS to reholder it straight graded, it’s his option.
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
@Connecticoin said:
If I owned it I would see if PCGS would cross it now. I don’t trust those NGC prongs on that gold nickel.
Do you have any examples of gold being affected? I’ve heard of issues with white metal but never with gold.
No, that white metal coin is the one I was thinking of, but why take chances? The rims on the nickel are different from a $5 gold piece, but hopefully the metal is hard enough to withstand the NGC prongs.
@Connecticoin said:
If I owned it I would see if PCGS would cross it now. I don’t trust those NGC prongs on that gold nickel.
Do you have any examples of gold being affected? I’ve heard of issues with white metal but never with gold.
No, that white metal coin is the one I was thinking of, but why take chances? The rims on the nickel are different from a $5 gold piece, but hopefully the metal is hard enough to withstand the NGC prongs.
Given how many gold coins have been slabbed, cracked and/or crossed, I doubt there is a risk.
There are reasons to cross including liking the slab better, getting it in the PCGS Registry Set, etc. but an issue with prongs seems remote at best.
@Connecticoin said:
If I owned it I would see if PCGS would cross it now. I don’t trust those NGC prongs on that gold nickel.
Do you have any examples of gold being affected? I’ve heard of issues with white metal but never with gold.
No, that white metal coin is the one I was thinking of, but why take chances? The rims on the nickel are different from a $5 gold piece, but hopefully the metal is hard enough to withstand the NGC prongs.
Given how many gold coins have been slabbed, cracked and/or crossed, I doubt there is a risk.
There are reasons to cross including liking the slab better, getting it in the PCGS Registry Set, etc. but an issue with prongs seems remote at best.
I agree, I was just thinking the "nickel" rims might be more exposed to the prongs, but the hardness of the $5 gold piece alloy is probably sufficient.
The Gold Buffalo Nickel is secured in the NGC pronged holder perfectly.
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
I guess I'm in the minority here but imo wear is wear no matter how it occurred, and old damage is still damage... and it should be accurately and fully described as such on the label. If I just paid for a straight grade coin and found out afterwards that it used to be in a details holder from another service I'd be royally ticked off, rarity or not. But especially so with a high dollar item.
That’s why in the Mint Error News article on the unique Gold Buffalo that is now certified straight grade NGC, it discloses that it was previously certified by PCGS, certified authentic but not gradeable (detail holder) and even mentions the auction company and price realized!
Full disclosure by Mint Error News.
“ Sil placed this Gold Buffalo Nickel in a Heritage Auction, where it realized a shockingly low $78k, due to being in a PCGS "authentic but ungradable" holder. The dealer who purchased it immediately split it with me at his cost as I believed that it was an incredible bargain even in the PCGS holder.”
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
@ErrorsOnCoins said:
The person who buys the unique gold buffalo nickel will know exactly what they are buying, that is, a super cool and extremely rare coin.
Agree! A great thing about Mike's articles in Mint Error News is that there's a lot of research that goes into the cover coins, both what's known and what's possible.
The next issue will be the Special Edition 20th year anniversary of the Mint Error News Magazine and website. The issue is expected to be over 500 pages, instead of the usual 250-275.
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
@Byers said:
The next issue will be the Special Edition 20th year anniversary of the Mint Error News Magazine and website. The issue is expected to be over 500 pages, instead of the usual 250-275.
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
@coinbuf said:
I'm sorry but straight grading coins like those posted above is a disservice to the hobby, akin to straight grading a parking lot coin. That is not to say that these are not cool and unique coins, they are, but they are all damaged post mint.
I see you point, but if the "post mint damage" was caused by The Mint, shouldn't that warrant a straight grade since, technically, the piece was "processed" by the Mint?
I see the patterns and cancelled pieces as something a bit better than a parking lot find...
Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;
@coinbuf said:
I'm sorry but straight grading coins like those posted above is a disservice to the hobby, akin to straight grading a parking lot coin. That is not to say that these are not cool and unique coins, they are, but they are all damaged post mint.
I see you point, but if the "post mint damage" was caused by The Mint, shouldn't that warrant a straight grade since, technically, the piece was "processed" by the Mint?
I see the patterns and cancelled pieces as something a bit better than a parking lot find...
The Dexter Dollar is a bit better than a parking lot find too... just a bit
Purposely canceled pieces are a totally different thing and we're not talking about parking lot coins, to be sure... but we are talking about coins with issues... verifiable, no gray area issues.
And sorry but I guess I'm gonna be "that guy" here and ask...If Joe Sixpack had acquired that proof Stella with the obvious hairlines and cleaning, gotten a details grade and decided to do a sub elsewhere do you think he'd get a straight grade and a sticker and a six digit profit?
“The person who buys the unique gold buffalo nickel will know exactly what they are buying, that is, a super cool and extremely rare coin”.
Chris- that is why full disclosure was given so the new owner would have knowledge of it’s previous holder and price realized.
It’s a unique U.S. gold coin combining rarity, mystic, and excitement as a new discovery!
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
@coinbuf said:
I'm sorry but straight grading coins like those posted above is a disservice to the hobby, akin to straight grading a parking lot coin. That is not to say that these are not cool and unique coins, they are, but they are all damaged post mint.
I see you point, but if the "post mint damage" was caused by The Mint, shouldn't that warrant a straight grade since, technically, the piece was "processed" by the Mint?
I see the patterns and cancelled pieces as something a bit better than a parking lot find...
The Dexter Dollar is a bit better than a parking lot find too... just a bit
I don’t know. Laura has basically called the Pogue Childs PCGS PF68 1804 dreck> @Zoins said:
@coinbuf said:
I'm sorry but straight grading coins like those posted above is a disservice to the hobby, akin to straight grading a parking lot coin. That is not to say that these are not cool and unique coins, they are, but they are all damaged post mint.
I see you point, but if the "post mint damage" was caused by The Mint, shouldn't that warrant a straight grade since, technically, the piece was "processed" by the Mint?
I see the patterns and cancelled pieces as something a bit better than a parking lot find...
The Dexter Dollar is a bit better than a parking lot find too... just a bit
Comments
Here's the 1880 Coiled Hair Stella example, with a huge price jump!
61 isn't typically a very desirable grade, but it is compared to having no grade!
Pete:
Ofcourse rare and or unique special exciting coins are sometimes given leeway. Some of these have sold for six and seven figures, some even with the CAC sticker!
Having examined the gold buffalo RAW, in my humble opinion…
It never circulated. It was not found in change or in a junk box.
There are not the typical circulation marks normally found on AU coins. It has retained most of its luster and, as I mentioned in my article… it kind if has a matte frost or look to it!
There is rub on the high points, once again in my humble opinion due to being handled, touched and looked at the old fashion way. Person to person by hand to hand.
Clearly no marks from bouncing in a horse or buggy or even a Ford Model T. No marks from being in a penny arcade machine a century ago.
Thanks for the observations Mike. It certainly looks much better than a 53 from the photos so it's great to have your in-hand perspective.
I wouldn't be surprised if it's recognized as uncirculated in the future.
@Zoins stated:
“ Here's the 1880 Coiled Hair Stella example, with a huge price jump!
61 isn't a typically a very desirable grade, but it is compared to having no grade!
$258,500 as UNC Details Polished
$504,000 as PF61”
Yes! Clearly another example of a six figure increase once a net detail gets into a straight grade!
It's interesting to wonder if the coin was struck intentionally or if it was a true error. On the one hand, it seems far more likely that a gold Buffalo Nickel would be intentional. First, because it's so rare, and second, because we assume that the Mint was especially careful about the way it controlled the flow of gold around the Mint. But this piece is from heavily worn dies, which seems an odd choice for a Mint employee intentionally striking a special piece. Also, if the coin was struck intentionally, it would have been treasured from the moment it was struck, and less likely to ever fall into the hands of someone who would take a file to it. Of course we'll probably never know the actual circumstances of the coin's creation, but it's still intriguing.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
You bring up some very good points Andy. Why was this created using worn dies, and why was it tested to see if it was really gold? Those are very interesting thoughts on this being a legitimate error.
Of note, Tom indicated he no problem accepting this coin as a legitimate error.
Here are some quotes from Tom:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1067304/the-top-20-error-coins-of-all-time/p1
And a follow up:
Andy great post and thoughts as usual.
From the article:
“ Struck during the era of the five known world famous 1913 Liberty Head Nickels valued at millions each, this unique Gold Buffalo Nickel is either a mint error or a piece de caprice. It was likely made for a Mint official or a famous numismatist. It also could have been struck for presentation purposes but is not listed in Judd as a pattern.”
As noted earlier, more research is being conducted and it’s premature to comment further…
It would be interesting to see how much it will bring in the auction for this NGC AU53. I am pretty sure it will be lot more than 78K Details. Mint error coins are hot.
Could you please post the corresponding image of the reverse?
I actually have no problem with this holder. This is how we used to certify coins with a problem at ANACS. Give the proper technical grade, AND list the problem. People know what they are getting.
TD
The above statement makes a lot of sense, well thought out.
Big image of this test cut reverse please ?
Check out page 21 of the Mint Error News Magazine issue linked in the OP:
https://minterrornews.com/issue63.pdf#page=21
I'm not gonna say anything more about wear.
I promise!
Pete
@Zoins
Here is the image of the 4th coin mentioned in the article:
“… A few examples include the unique cancelled 1860 Seated Liberty Half Dollar Pattern in Copper (Judd-269), the unique cancelled 2011-2013 Martha Washington Quarter Test Piece (Judd-2225), the unique 1814 platinum Bust Half (Judd-44a) with punch marks and graffiti, and the Dexter 1804 Dollar with a counterstamp "D" that is worth several million dollars.”
It’s the unique Judd 2225 cancelled Martha Washington Test Piece. After 12 years it is still unique. None are known in private hands without the cancelation either! NGC encapsulated this in a regular holder.
That's an amazing pattern coin and rarity Mike! I'm fascinated by the new Martha Washington pattern designs! It's incredible that after all these years, only a single specimen exists of this type for this important era of US Mint coin design creation!
I'm glad Andy @MrEureka and Saul assigned a Judd number for it too!
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/948295/martha-washington-patterns
Very interesting, mint employee caused errors are acts of opportunity and their existence defies logic. IMO. Peace Roy
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Defying logic is probably why they are worth so much.
It is absolutely shameful that the Stella stickered. This is why NGC coins languish.
I don't think NGC languishes for ultra rarities like this.
The Stella result looks strong, even compared to the PCGS Price Guide. Though PCGS doesn't offer a price for 1880 Coiled Hair PR61, PCGS shows 50% discount from 64 to 62 for 1879 Coiled Hair, so using the same discount, this coin essentially sold for a PCGS PR62 price ($1M * 50% = $500k).
Also, both TPGs will straight grade ultra rarities, like the bronze cent posted above in this thread.
@Zoins stated:
“Also, both TPGs will straight grade ultra rarities, like the bronze cent posted above in this thread.”
Obviously it goes both ways!
Zoins example of the NGC detail graded 1943 Copper Cent getting into a straight grade PCGS holder:
Interesting die crack on the obverse of the Gold Buffalo:
Great diagnostic Mike! It would be nice to track this down and associate it with other coins. The reverse is a Type 2.
I wouldn't rule out the possibility that the Obverse was only used on Type 1's. And IF that's the case - not that I have reason to expect it - the coin is a mule and we'll pretty much know for sure that the coin was struck intentionally.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
If I owned it I would see if PCGS would cross it now. I don’t trust those NGC prongs on that gold nickel.
Andy- very interesting!
And as I previously mentioned in the thread, more research is being done regarding how it was produced, it’s pedigree, etc…
Do you have any examples of gold being affected? I’ve heard of issues with white metal but never with gold.
I own it with a partner.
Since NGC encapsulated it in a regular holder, we are leaving it that way.
It looks great in their holder.
If the new owner decides to ask PCGS to reholder it straight graded, it’s his option.
I am not going to say anything because some people will not like it.
No, that white metal coin is the one I was thinking of, but why take chances? The rims on the nickel are different from a $5 gold piece, but hopefully the metal is hard enough to withstand the NGC prongs.
Given how many gold coins have been slabbed, cracked and/or crossed, I doubt there is a risk.
There are reasons to cross including liking the slab better, getting it in the PCGS Registry Set, etc. but an issue with prongs seems remote at best.
I agree, I was just thinking the "nickel" rims might be more exposed to the prongs, but the hardness of the $5 gold piece alloy is probably sufficient.
@Zoins
The Gold Buffalo Nickel is secured in the NGC pronged holder perfectly.
I guess I'm in the minority here but imo wear is wear no matter how it occurred, and old damage is still damage... and it should be accurately and fully described as such on the label. If I just paid for a straight grade coin and found out afterwards that it used to be in a details holder from another service I'd be royally ticked off, rarity or not. But especially so with a high dollar item.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
@telephoto1
I agree!
That’s why in the Mint Error News article on the unique Gold Buffalo that is now certified straight grade NGC, it discloses that it was previously certified by PCGS, certified authentic but not gradeable (detail holder) and even mentions the auction company and price realized!
Full disclosure by Mint Error News.
“ Sil placed this Gold Buffalo Nickel in a Heritage Auction, where it realized a shockingly low $78k, due to being in a PCGS "authentic but ungradable" holder. The dealer who purchased it immediately split it with me at his cost as I believed that it was an incredible bargain even in the PCGS holder.”
@Byers I understand that and was speaking to more than just the gold Buff.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
The person who buys the unique gold buffalo nickel will know exactly what they are buying, that is, a super cool and extremely rare coin.
Agree! A great thing about Mike's articles in Mint Error News is that there's a lot of research that goes into the cover coins, both what's known and what's possible.
The next issue will be the Special Edition 20th year anniversary of the Mint Error News Magazine and website. The issue is expected to be over 500 pages, instead of the usual 250-275.
WOW, can't wait to read it.
@jt88
👍😁
I see you point, but if the "post mint damage" was caused by The Mint, shouldn't that warrant a straight grade since, technically, the piece was "processed" by the Mint?
I see the patterns and cancelled pieces as something a bit better than a parking lot find...
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That’s one I’d like in my collection.
The Dexter Dollar is a bit better than a parking lot find too... just a bit
Purposely canceled pieces are a totally different thing and we're not talking about parking lot coins, to be sure... but we are talking about coins with issues... verifiable, no gray area issues.
And sorry but I guess I'm gonna be "that guy" here and ask...If Joe Sixpack had acquired that proof Stella with the obvious hairlines and cleaning, gotten a details grade and decided to do a sub elsewhere do you think he'd get a straight grade and a sticker and a six digit profit?
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
@ErrorsOnCoins said:
“The person who buys the unique gold buffalo nickel will know exactly what they are buying, that is, a super cool and extremely rare coin”.
Chris- that is why full disclosure was given so the new owner would have knowledge of it’s previous holder and price realized.
It’s a unique U.S. gold coin combining rarity, mystic, and excitement as a new discovery!
I really like full disclosure on rare coins and it shows respect for collectors.
Some dealers try to hide a coin's history whether it's past sales price or past grades, which makes you question their representations.
And sometimes things are unknown, or speculation, and future avenues of research. That too is useful information, as long as it's presented as such.
I don’t know. Laura has basically called the Pogue Childs PCGS PF68 1804 dreck> @Zoins said:
Maybe it’s Laura’s parking lot. 🤣
Laura called the Dexter Dollar "a true GEM Proof."