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Two 2021 First Production Type 2 with same issue

I have two 2021 first production type 2 coins that have the exact same "marking" on them. None of my non-first production Type 2 coins have it. I am wondering if all first production coins have it or not. I have attempted to capture the issue in images. The dark spots appear to be chips when viewed in person. Are they actually 70's as advertised?




Thoughts?

Answers

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    MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,218 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Can you pull back some and get a bigger view?

    Just in case, can you return them?

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
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    JBKJBK Posts: 14,771 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 23, 2022 12:00AM

    You seem to be buying the holder (label) not the coin, so all you can do is trust the grading company.

    On one there seems to be a milk spot in between the eagle's wing. Don't be surprised if more of those pop up over the years.

    MS70 is a lofty grade for a newly struck silver coin. There is nowhere to go but down. ;)

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    I have quite a few type 2 coins. These were very inexpensive. I am only asking about the dark mark on the raised surface. It is strange only these 2 first production coins have it, out of the 12 types 2 coins I have. I attached a pull back view. Issue is, you can't see it at less than 6 or 7 magnification.

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    JBKJBK Posts: 14,771 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think you are putting too much emphasis on the "first production" angle. If the mark is a striking anomaly then it may just have been present on one die, in which case ended up with two coins from the same fie.

    If the "chip" is incuse, then in is likely a struck through error. These can be domewhat repeatable if the foreign matter is stuck to the die.

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    That is what I thought at first as well, my suspicion is: Since the mint themselves is joining in on the marketing, (Creating this first production genre, first day of production, last day of production etc...) is there going to be identifiable marks on coins for first production going forward. This suspicion is the whole reason I bought the first one to look at. When I saw what was in the picture, I just had to buy another one. Now, I don't want to buy a bunch more, so I thought I would ask here, if anyone else has some with the same identifiable marking on theirs. I know 2 is not a trend, but the cheapest way to validate or disprove, would be others who have them check.

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    MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,218 ✭✭✭✭✭

    There are no marks to separate first or last production from a bullion run of another time

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
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    The mint never joined in the marketing of first strike. The mint literally created this category themselves. Things change in all collectible markets. As you can probably tell from my pic, I also collect classic cars. There are identifiable things on cars for production dates. If they are going down this road, and they appear to be going down it, I fail to see how "special" dies for just first day, just first production, Last day, and on and on would not be conceivable. I hope I am wrong, but only one way to figure it out.

    Especially since one of the biggest gripes from the industry is: There is no way to determine first day of production, unless the mint says so, or last day of production. So dies only used on specific runs with the same / but different markings under high magnification would end that complaint from industry. So even if the coin is out of the ""all important holder"", it would still be identifiable.

    Just like in cars, value is determined by the buyer. Some want early production, and will pay for it...if provable.

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    JBKJBK Posts: 14,771 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Pilot123 said:
    The mint never joined in the marketing of first strike. The mint literally created this category themselves.

    Huh? I don't get this comment. How did the mint create this category?

    They did make some PNCs (Philatelic Numismatic Covers) for the state quarters and Sacagawea dollars that included coins from the first day of production, but all of the various slab labels for SEs, etc. are concoctions of the grading companies.

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    The U.S. Mint’s plans to offer the last day of production of 2021 American Eagle, Reverse of 1986 silver and gold bullion coins and the first day output of the Reverse of 2021 silver and gold bullion coins to its authorized purchasers were revised somewhat, because the bureau could not meet the mintage numbers originally scheduled.

    “Early in 2021, the Mint made plans to offer the last day of production of 2021 classic design American Eagle and first day of production of the new design 2021 American Eagle Gold and Silver One Ounce Bullion Coins, produced at the Mint Facility at West Point, to Authorized Purchasers,” according to the news release issued via email to the numismatic media by U.S. Mint spokesman Michael White. “These coins were to have a market-based premium consistent with the value associated with the last of one design and the first of a new design.

    “Because single-day production goals of 200,000 classic design AE silver, 200,000 new design AE silver and 15,000 new design AE gold were not reached, the Mint can only offer these products as ‘last production runs’ and ‘first production runs’ because they were struck on multiple days.

    “The single-day production goal of 15,000 classic design AE gold was reached on 04/08/21. This message also provides a chart that distinguishes each box by the date of strike for its contents.”

    The U.S. Mint also released on Aug. 13 the serial numbers for the 500-coin monster boxes of old and new design American Eagle bullion coins.

    Listed below are the box (lot) numbers assigned to the boxes of the last production runs of the original design 2021 American Eagle silver and gold bullion coins and the first production runs of the new design 2021 American Eagle silver and gold bullion coins, with the dates produced.

    Each box contains 500 1-ounce coins.

    These boxes went on sale to the United States Mint’s authorized purchasers on Aug. 9.
    ➤ American Eagle silver (original Reverse of 1986 design — product code SO21AL) produced April 7 to April 8; 110807 to 111006 (200 boxes); 211312 to 211511 (200 boxes).
    ➤ American Eagle gold (original Reverse of 1986 design — product code GO21AL), produced April 8; 510884 to 510913 (30 boxes).
    ➤ American Eagle silver (new 2021 reverse design — product code SO21BF) produced May 5 to May 13; 250001 to 250400 (400 boxes). These 400 boxes of 2021 American Eagle new design first-production-run coins have a label with a large “BF” under “2021” on the far right side of the label.
    ➤ American Eagle gold (new 2021 reverse design — product code GO21BF) produced April 14 to April 20; 550001 to 550030 (30 boxes).

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    JBKJBK Posts: 14,771 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Pilot123 said:
    The U.S. Mint’s plans to offer the last day of production of 2021 American Eagle, Reverse of 1986 silver and gold bullion coins and the first day output of the Reverse of 2021 silver and gold bullion coins to its authorized purchasers were revised somewhat, because the bureau could not meet the mintage numbers originally scheduled.

    “Early in 2021, the Mint made plans to offer the last day of production of 2021 classic design American Eagle and first day of production of the new design 2021 American Eagle Gold and Silver One Ounce Bullion Coins, produced at the Mint Facility at West Point, to Authorized Purchasers,” according to the news release issued via email to the numismatic media by U.S. Mint spokesman Michael White. “These coins were to have a market-based premium consistent with the value associated with the last of one design and the first of a new design.

    “Because single-day production goals of 200,000 classic design AE silver, 200,000 new design AE silver and 15,000 new design AE gold were not reached, the Mint can only offer these products as ‘last production runs’ and ‘first production runs’ because they were struck on multiple days.

    “The single-day production goal of 15,000 classic design AE gold was reached on 04/08/21. This message also provides a chart that distinguishes each box by the date of strike for its contents.”

    The U.S. Mint also released on Aug. 13 the serial numbers for the 500-coin monster boxes of old and new design American Eagle bullion coins.

    Listed below are the box (lot) numbers assigned to the boxes of the last production runs of the original design 2021 American Eagle silver and gold bullion coins and the first production runs of the new design 2021 American Eagle silver and gold bullion coins, with the dates produced.

    Each box contains 500 1-ounce coins.

    These boxes went on sale to the United States Mint’s authorized purchasers on Aug. 9.
    ➤ American Eagle silver (original Reverse of 1986 design — product code SO21AL) produced April 7 to April 8; 110807 to 111006 (200 boxes); 211312 to 211511 (200 boxes).
    ➤ American Eagle gold (original Reverse of 1986 design — product code GO21AL), produced April 8; 510884 to 510913 (30 boxes).
    ➤ American Eagle silver (new 2021 reverse design — product code SO21BF) produced May 5 to May 13; 250001 to 250400 (400 boxes). These 400 boxes of 2021 American Eagle new design first-production-run coins have a label with a large “BF” under “2021” on the far right side of the label.
    ➤ American Eagle gold (new 2021 reverse design — product code GO21BF) produced April 14 to April 20; 550001 to 550030 (30 boxes).

    The various early/first releases/issues have been around on TPG labels for years. The mint is late to the game.

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    I hope they don't go down the road. My Morgan collection have variants that can drive value in similar ways. The mint planned to do these first production types. If they are planning to do them, there should/could be a VAM difference so to speak. That is why I wanted to see if there is a "marking", or die difference, just like the tailbar, or overdate, or reverse of 78 Morgans or some other discernable difference in the examples. So those of us that don't buy labels, can enjoy the hunt for them. I admit I am very new to eagle collecting, but I had to finish the Morgans, Trades, Peace, and Barbers first. Not often does one get the chance to start at year 1 of a new bullion coin, so I did.

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