I have to wonder about the managing team for Minnesota when they do something like this. Great franchises start with capable managing skills. Minnesota seems to make alot of blunders, they could have had comparable qb's for a heck of alot less while they rebuild(?), or whatever they are going to do this year - 9-8 does not get you as far as 2-15 in terms of your future of winning the SB. Better to have that drop off than another mediocre season, 'specially with the new head coach that is a fresh in, he will need great draft choices going forward if he wants to get above 9-8.
Vikings were 24th in points allowed last year and 29th the year before. Even Brady could not win with a bad defense. In fact Tom never had a defense that was worse than 8th in points allowed on any of "his" SB winners and never below _17th _during his entire time in NE.
Even guys like Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson were able to "win" the SB with a great defense.
The last time the Vikings had a great defense (points allowed) Cousin's led an OT drive to beat NO in the playoffs. The next game the Vikings were destroyed by a far superior 49ers squad. In that game Kirk played well. The Vikings rushed for 21 yards in the entire game and allowed the 49ers to rush for 186 yards, while controlling the ball for 38 and a half minutes. Not Cousins' fault.
In his 4 years in Minnesota he has missed one game and made 2 Pro Bowls.
Last year he had a great season. In passing TD's Kirk was 9th and he had the fewest INTs as well. Average? Playing with a HORRIBLE defense, the Vikings were in almost every game until the final play. With just an average defense the Vikings win (conservatively) 4 more games and finish 12-5 easily making the playoffs. Not Cousins' fault.
He may not be an "elite" QB, but only someone with a lack of knowledge about football would call him "average".
I would say Dak Prescott with a 1-3 record in the playoffs and who makes as much if not more than Cousins should be getting more heat here, or guys like Jarrod Goff and Carson Wentz who get paid as much as Kirk as well. Deshaun Watson's playoff record is the same as Kirk's. These guys all make about the same money as Kirk, some a little more some a little less.
Goff sure looked worse playing for Detroit, while Stafford, now playing on a team with a defense wins the SB. The same thing was said about Stafford as Cousins "he's not a winner".
I'll never understand how people can criticize him (or any single player) for the team not winning. One guy (even the much worshiped GOAT Tom Brady) cannot win without a very good to great defense.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
If the Vikings didn't pay Cousins several other teams would have
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@Justacommeman said:
If the Vikings didn't pay Cousins several other teams would have
mark
I wouldn't have minded moving him, but for who?
And that's the problem. Who else is out there that's better and available
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@Justacommeman said:
If the Vikings didn't pay Cousins several other teams would have
mark
I wouldn't have minded moving him, but for who?
And that's the problem. Who else is out there that's better and available
m
That's why they make the big bucks.
I am interested to see how he does under the new HC,
Zimmer was a big fan of running the ball and playing defense. Defense went into the toilet two years ago. They better figure out how to stop the other team or all we'll hear about is how lousy Cousins is.
Maybe Kirk can play some Linebacker!
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
Problem is he is not elite and he is not worth close to $35 million. Elite qb's make their defenses better - they stay on the field longer, giving their defenses rest. So part of the patriots good D with Brady also has something to do with Brady. Then of course, there is coaching. Vikes have made alot of dumb choices over the last 5 years, won't pay Diggs but pay crazy money for Cousins, even after the Keenum to Rudolf, Thielen and Diggs got them into the NFC championship game. Would have been alot cheaper, and at worst, just as successful, to keep that group together instead of overspending on an average NFL qb. Head to head, Keenum beat Cousins in his one year of starting in Mini. Well stupid is as stupid does and the Vikings will never be an elite team if they continue to manage like that.
And that's the problem. Who else is out there that's better and available
m
When you are an average team and won't make a SB, that does not matter, the best way to get good is start over and find a young qb that will become elite. Look at what the Seahawks are doing, dumping salaries (and Russell Wilson who is beginning to show signs of lesser productivity with age) and starting over, smart move. Also what the other team that Jody Allen is doing, my Blazers, just cleaned house, starting over (I don't think Lillard with ever play in their uniform again), if not, they'd be just like the Vikings, mediocre, forever. I think it is a good move for both teams, speaks of management who understand the limitations of a team and when to fold and start over. Vike management clearly does not get it.
@spacehayduke said:
Problem is he is not elite and he is not worth close to $35 million. Elite qb's make their defenses better - they stay on the field longer, giving their defenses rest. So part of the patriots good D with Brady also has something to do with Brady. Then of course, there is coaching. Vikes have made alot of dumb choices over the last 5 years, won't pay Diggs but pay crazy money for Cousins, even after the Keenum to Rudolf, Thielen and Diggs got them into the NFC championship game. Would have been alot cheaper, and at worst, just as successful, to keep that group together instead of overspending on an average NFL qb. Head to head, Keenum beat Cousins in his one year of starting in Mini. Well stupid is as stupid does and the Vikings will never be an elite team if they continue to manage like that.
>
Here are some Quarterbacks that make about the same as Cousins, some a little more, some a little less;
Deshaun Watson, last year his record was 4-12.
Ryan Tannehill, he has lost his last 3 playoff games.
Matt Ryan hasn't won a playoff game since 2017 and has won only 11 games in the last 2 years.
Jared Goff, 3-10 last year.
Carson Wentz, has never won a playoff game.
Dak Prescott just got a 4 year $160 Million deal, his playoff record is 1-3.
Why aren't you whining about these guys?
You obviously know nothing about the Diggs situation. He's a head case and wanted out of Minnesota because he was afraid the Vikings were going to run the ball with Dalvin Cook, getting rid of an expensive, selfish, unhappy player and ending up with Justin Jefferson was a GREAT decision!
Again you obviously know little about the "keeping the group together" situation. Paying Cousins didn't cause the Vikings to let 5 starters leave after a 10-5 season and a playoff victory. On top of that we lost 3 more starters to injury and covid for the entire 2020 season, also not Cousins' fault.
I liked Keenum and would have kept him after 2017, but it's pretty obvious that he is not a starter in the NFL.
Getting Cousins was a good move, playing him behind a HORRIBLE pass blocking line was a bad decision.
Now you are ripping on Vikings Management, well I wanted Spielman out for a while now, Zimmer had his problems as well, but overall I liked him.
What team are you a fan of?
Here's a list of non "elite" Quarterbacks who have gotten to the Super Bowl in the last 27 years;
Yup I obviously know nothing. Diggs is doing just fine with Buffalo and had another top 10 season.
All of those qbs you list are indeed as average as Cousins and yes none of those teams have won an SB with those folks at the helm even tho many of them have/had strong supporting casts and some played in an SB and lost.
Dilfer, Flacco, Foles, and Johnson were just as marginal but had timing, coaching, and dumb luck on their hands for winning SB's. None of them had long-term stunning careers, good median NFL starting qb's like the other list including Cousins.
Cousins indeed could win an SB if V management, coaching, and talent were there, but it never has been and never will be probably because it starts with competent management. Zinner as a coach. Hilarious. But at least they finally got rid of him so who knows.................
The exception is Deshaun Watson. I have watched every single snap that DW took with the Texans. You look at the record when the were 4-12? Well, golly, their defense was ranked at the bottom (3rd to last) had no run game (2nd to last) which definitely kept the D on the field too much, receivers traded away (dhop, etc.) and it was a one person team, should have been called the Deshaun Watson's. Dude is totally the real deal on the field, far better than the average qb's you list and certainly better than Cousins at 35 mill per year LOFL. In that terrible season on an awful team with almost no talent and lousy coaching, DW managed to be in the top 10. He also needs to be coached better and reduce sack numbers but part of that was one of the worst O-lines in the NFL that had DW running for his life alot of the time. DW is the real deal, if he can get his dysfunctional personal life cleaned up, he is going to be part of the new gen - Mahomes, Herbert, Allen, possibly Burrow, and Watson. Cousins? One knows what he can be, good average starter but nothing more. Yes build incredible talent around him and maybe he can win. But the dysfunctional V's won't do that, LOL.
It is really too bad about DW because the new Texan management appears to be really good and in a few years, watch out for them after they build up.
Vikes will never win a Super Bowl in my lifetime because again, lousy front office, how sad for Vikes fans. Skol!
See the Chargers sign Jackson thread. Great players want to play on a team with Herbert as qb so LA Chargers are going places. Cousins? meh........... That is the difference for teams that can compete for an SB vs those that stay stagnant. Look at the teams Brady has played for, same thing elite players want to be on his team. This will never be Cousins and that is the difference maker.
@spacehayduke said:
Yup I obviously know nothing. Diggs is doing just fine with Buffalo and had another top 10 season.
Diggs has great talent and the Vikings are much better off without him.
>
All of those qbs you list are indeed as average as Cousins and yes none of those teams have won an SB with those folks at the helm even tho many of them have/had strong supporting casts and some played in an SB and lost.
Dilfer, Flacco, Foles, and Johnson were just as marginal but had timing, coaching, and dumb luck on their hands for winning SB's. None of them had long-term stunning careers, good median NFL starting qb's like the other list including Cousins.
Cousins indeed could win an SB if V management, coaching, and talent were there, but it never has been and never will be probably because it starts with competent management. Zinner as a coach. Hilarious. But at least they finally got rid of him so who knows.................
FINALLY. Thanks for admitting that there is a possibility the Vikings could win with Cousins. He is far better than average, (and better than the 4 mentioned above) but I will agree that he is not elite. Overpaid? Not really, unless you are willing to admit that almost every single quarterback in the NFL is also overpaid.
>
The exception is Deshaun Watson. I have watched every single snap that DW took with the Texans. You look at the record when the were 4-12? Well, golly, their defense was ranked at the bottom (3rd to last) had no run game (2nd to last) which definitely kept the D on the field too much, receivers traded away (dhop, etc.) and it was a one person team, should have been called the Deshaun Watson's. Dude is totally the real deal on the field, far better than the average qb's you list and certainly better than Cousins at 35 mill per year LOFL. In that terrible season on an awful team with almost no talent and lousy coaching, DW managed to be in the top 10. He also needs to be coached better and reduce sack numbers but part of that was one of the worst O-lines in the NFL that had DW running for his life alot of the time. DW is the real deal, if he can get his dysfunctional personal life cleaned up, he is going to be part of the new gen - Mahomes, Herbert, Allen, possibly Burrow, and Watson. Cousins? One knows what he can be, good average starter but nothing more. Yes build incredible talent around him and maybe he can win. But the dysfunctional V's won't do that, LOL.
Well thanks again! This is almost word for word what I have been saying about Cousins. Mahomes is certainly elite, Herbert is a STUD, but hasn't got a winning record yet, Allen looks like the real deal, as does Burrow. I would absolutely rather have any of those 4 instead of Cousins. Other than that, I don't see many (Rodgers is better, but wow) other QBs I would rather have.
>
It is really too bad about DW because the new Texan management appears to be really good and in a few years, watch out for them after they build up.
>
I am assuming you are a Texan's fan (you didn't say who you rooted for) and I will admit that Deshaun has great talent, but he also has 22 civil lawsuits pending and most likely a suspension from the NFL. If he is innocent, I hope he wins the lawsuits. There is no denying that this is a huge problem for him at this time. He also has some huge problems with his team as he is demanding a trade, and severely criticizing management (old management?). They may deserve the criticism, but he could be hurting himself.
>
Vikes will never win a Super Bowl in my lifetime because again, lousy front office, how sad for Vikes fans. Skol!
I hope you are wrong there. The Vikings offense should be improved this year and if the new coaching staff and GM can improve the defense (yes, a big if) they have as good a chance as anyone.
No, I am not betting on a Vikings SB win.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
See the Chargers sign Jackson thread. Great players want to play on a team with Herbert as qb so LA Chargers are going places. Cousins? meh........... That is the difference for teams that can compete for an SB vs those that stay stagnant. Look at the teams Brady has played for, same thing elite players want to be on his team. This will never be Cousins and that is the difference maker.
Brady played with great defenses and a great HC for his entire career. The perfect storm.
2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
spacehayduke
Posts: 5,689 ✭✭✭✭✭
Comments
Kirk Cousins is king of the one year train robberies
I think he got Washington for two franchise tags and now this.
Cousins will never be a Super Bowl winner, trams need to stop thinking he might be
I have to wonder about the managing team for Minnesota when they do something like this. Great franchises start with capable managing skills. Minnesota seems to make alot of blunders, they could have had comparable qb's for a heck of alot less while they rebuild(?), or whatever they are going to do this year - 9-8 does not get you as far as 2-15 in terms of your future of winning the SB. Better to have that drop off than another mediocre season, 'specially with the new head coach that is a fresh in, he will need great draft choices going forward if he wants to get above 9-8.
Vikings were 24th in points allowed last year and 29th the year before. Even Brady could not win with a bad defense. In fact Tom never had a defense that was worse than 8th in points allowed on any of "his" SB winners and never below _17th _during his entire time in NE.
Even guys like Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson were able to "win" the SB with a great defense.
The last time the Vikings had a great defense (points allowed) Cousin's led an OT drive to beat NO in the playoffs. The next game the Vikings were destroyed by a far superior 49ers squad. In that game Kirk played well. The Vikings rushed for 21 yards in the entire game and allowed the 49ers to rush for 186 yards, while controlling the ball for 38 and a half minutes. Not Cousins' fault.
In his 4 years in Minnesota he has missed one game and made 2 Pro Bowls.
Last year he had a great season. In passing TD's Kirk was 9th and he had the fewest INTs as well. Average? Playing with a HORRIBLE defense, the Vikings were in almost every game until the final play. With just an average defense the Vikings win (conservatively) 4 more games and finish 12-5 easily making the playoffs. Not Cousins' fault.
He may not be an "elite" QB, but only someone with a lack of knowledge about football would call him "average".
I would say Dak Prescott with a 1-3 record in the playoffs and who makes as much if not more than Cousins should be getting more heat here, or guys like Jarrod Goff and Carson Wentz who get paid as much as Kirk as well. Deshaun Watson's playoff record is the same as Kirk's. These guys all make about the same money as Kirk, some a little more some a little less.
Goff sure looked worse playing for Detroit, while Stafford, now playing on a team with a defense wins the SB. The same thing was said about Stafford as Cousins "he's not a winner".
I'll never understand how people can criticize him (or any single player) for the team not winning. One guy (even the much worshiped GOAT Tom Brady) cannot win without a very good to great defense.
If the Vikings didn't pay Cousins several other teams would have
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I wouldn't have minded moving him, but for who?
And that's the problem. Who else is out there that's better and available
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
That's why they make the big bucks.
I am interested to see how he does under the new HC,
Zimmer was a big fan of running the ball and playing defense. Defense went into the toilet two years ago. They better figure out how to stop the other team or all we'll hear about is how lousy Cousins is.
Maybe Kirk can play some Linebacker!
Problem is he is not elite and he is not worth close to $35 million. Elite qb's make their defenses better - they stay on the field longer, giving their defenses rest. So part of the patriots good D with Brady also has something to do with Brady. Then of course, there is coaching. Vikes have made alot of dumb choices over the last 5 years, won't pay Diggs but pay crazy money for Cousins, even after the Keenum to Rudolf, Thielen and Diggs got them into the NFC championship game. Would have been alot cheaper, and at worst, just as successful, to keep that group together instead of overspending on an average NFL qb. Head to head, Keenum beat Cousins in his one year of starting in Mini. Well stupid is as stupid does and the Vikings will never be an elite team if they continue to manage like that.
When you are an average team and won't make a SB, that does not matter, the best way to get good is start over and find a young qb that will become elite. Look at what the Seahawks are doing, dumping salaries (and Russell Wilson who is beginning to show signs of lesser productivity with age) and starting over, smart move. Also what the other team that Jody Allen is doing, my Blazers, just cleaned house, starting over (I don't think Lillard with ever play in their uniform again), if not, they'd be just like the Vikings, mediocre, forever. I think it is a good move for both teams, speaks of management who understand the limitations of a team and when to fold and start over. Vike management clearly does not get it.
>
Here are some Quarterbacks that make about the same as Cousins, some a little more, some a little less;
Deshaun Watson, last year his record was 4-12.
Ryan Tannehill, he has lost his last 3 playoff games.
Matt Ryan hasn't won a playoff game since 2017 and has won only 11 games in the last 2 years.
Jared Goff, 3-10 last year.
Carson Wentz, has never won a playoff game.
Dak Prescott just got a 4 year $160 Million deal, his playoff record is 1-3.
Why aren't you whining about these guys?
You obviously know nothing about the Diggs situation. He's a head case and wanted out of Minnesota because he was afraid the Vikings were going to run the ball with Dalvin Cook, getting rid of an expensive, selfish, unhappy player and ending up with Justin Jefferson was a GREAT decision!
Again you obviously know little about the "keeping the group together" situation. Paying Cousins didn't cause the Vikings to let 5 starters leave after a 10-5 season and a playoff victory. On top of that we lost 3 more starters to injury and covid for the entire 2020 season, also not Cousins' fault.
I liked Keenum and would have kept him after 2017, but it's pretty obvious that he is not a starter in the NFL.
Getting Cousins was a good move, playing him behind a HORRIBLE pass blocking line was a bad decision.
Now you are ripping on Vikings Management, well I wanted Spielman out for a while now, Zimmer had his problems as well, but overall I liked him.
What team are you a fan of?
Here's a list of non "elite" Quarterbacks who have gotten to the Super Bowl in the last 27 years;
Garappolo
Goff
Newton
Kaepernick
Grossman
Hasselbeck
McNabb
Delhomme
Gannon
Collins
McNair
Chandler
Bledsoe
o"Donnell
Here's a list of non "elite" Quarterbacks who have gotten to the Super Bowl and_ WON _in the last 27 years;
Dilfer
Foles
Flacco
Johnson
You CERTAINLY DO NOT need an "elite" QB to get to a Super Bowl, or even to win one.
Yup I obviously know nothing. Diggs is doing just fine with Buffalo and had another top 10 season.
All of those qbs you list are indeed as average as Cousins and yes none of those teams have won an SB with those folks at the helm even tho many of them have/had strong supporting casts and some played in an SB and lost.
Dilfer, Flacco, Foles, and Johnson were just as marginal but had timing, coaching, and dumb luck on their hands for winning SB's. None of them had long-term stunning careers, good median NFL starting qb's like the other list including Cousins.
Cousins indeed could win an SB if V management, coaching, and talent were there, but it never has been and never will be probably because it starts with competent management. Zinner as a coach. Hilarious. But at least they finally got rid of him so who knows.................
The exception is Deshaun Watson. I have watched every single snap that DW took with the Texans. You look at the record when the were 4-12? Well, golly, their defense was ranked at the bottom (3rd to last) had no run game (2nd to last) which definitely kept the D on the field too much, receivers traded away (dhop, etc.) and it was a one person team, should have been called the Deshaun Watson's. Dude is totally the real deal on the field, far better than the average qb's you list and certainly better than Cousins at 35 mill per year LOFL. In that terrible season on an awful team with almost no talent and lousy coaching, DW managed to be in the top 10. He also needs to be coached better and reduce sack numbers but part of that was one of the worst O-lines in the NFL that had DW running for his life alot of the time. DW is the real deal, if he can get his dysfunctional personal life cleaned up, he is going to be part of the new gen - Mahomes, Herbert, Allen, possibly Burrow, and Watson. Cousins? One knows what he can be, good average starter but nothing more. Yes build incredible talent around him and maybe he can win. But the dysfunctional V's won't do that, LOL.
It is really too bad about DW because the new Texan management appears to be really good and in a few years, watch out for them after they build up.
Vikes will never win a Super Bowl in my lifetime because again, lousy front office, how sad for Vikes fans. Skol!
See the Chargers sign Jackson thread. Great players want to play on a team with Herbert as qb so LA Chargers are going places. Cousins? meh........... That is the difference for teams that can compete for an SB vs those that stay stagnant. Look at the teams Brady has played for, same thing elite players want to be on his team. This will never be Cousins and that is the difference maker.
Diggs has great talent and the Vikings are much better off without him.
>
FINALLY. Thanks for admitting that there is a possibility the Vikings could win with Cousins. He is far better than average, (and better than the 4 mentioned above) but I will agree that he is not elite. Overpaid? Not really, unless you are willing to admit that almost every single quarterback in the NFL is also overpaid.
>
Well thanks again! This is almost word for word what I have been saying about Cousins. Mahomes is certainly elite, Herbert is a STUD, but hasn't got a winning record yet, Allen looks like the real deal, as does Burrow. I would absolutely rather have any of those 4 instead of Cousins. Other than that, I don't see many (Rodgers is better, but wow) other QBs I would rather have.
>
>
I am assuming you are a Texan's fan (you didn't say who you rooted for) and I will admit that Deshaun has great talent, but he also has 22 civil lawsuits pending and most likely a suspension from the NFL. If he is innocent, I hope he wins the lawsuits. There is no denying that this is a huge problem for him at this time. He also has some huge problems with his team as he is demanding a trade, and severely criticizing management (old management?). They may deserve the criticism, but he could be hurting himself.
>
I hope you are wrong there. The Vikings offense should be improved this year and if the new coaching staff and GM can improve the defense (yes, a big if) they have as good a chance as anyone.
No, I am not betting on a Vikings SB win.
Brady played with great defenses and a great HC for his entire career. The perfect storm.