Business strike using matte proof dies - what does this mean exactly?

Che_Grapes

I’m assuming this would not necessarily produce a “proof-like” surface because the planchettes are different between proof and business but wouldn’t it still look different than a die intended for business strike coins?
I have a coin that supposedly stuck by a matte proof die (based on VAM designation, VAM 1F of 1921 Liberty P dollar) but the strike itself - while strong and a good strike - is not a matte proof finish, per se.
so the question is, should it be a matte finish? Or would the planchette make that difference? Or was it just that they put more polish on them when striking “proof”? Why or why not?
So many questions - inquiring coin minds want to know ...

Aspie_Rocco

I believe the planchet makes the difference, since rejected proof planchets were used for business strikes over the years. A rough business planchet is treated differently than a proof, and proof striking pressures are higher than those used for business strikes.

jmlanzaf

@Aspie_Rocco said:
I believe the planchet makes the difference, since rejected proof planchets were used for business strikes over the years. A rough business planchet is treated differently than a proof, and proof striking pressures are higher than those used for business strikes.

This.

The entire process is different for a proof so you will be left with die characteristics but none of the proof attributes.

To the OP, any strength of strike is coincidental.

Che_Grapes

That makes sense - thanks to all - I have heard folks claim the 1F looks “matte” surface but I was not convinced of that, now that I own one and can look in person. They simply just used these dies out of necessity, I suppose, instead of just making the 12 or so proofs and then not using them anymore.

Weiss

I think @Che_Grapes brings up an important point, and one that bears consideration:
When I think of proof coins, I think of highly polished mirror-like fields and cameo devices.

But this was the quite brief early 20th century period of the matte proof.

I am by no means an expert in matte proofs. But perusing previous threads on this forum, it appears that matte proof planchets did not necessarily receive any special treatment. Rather, it was the dies themselves that were sandblasted or otherwise treated to create the matte effect on the finished coins.

If that's the case, then business strike coins--especially Peace dollars--struck with matte proof dies would necessarily be really damn close to matte proof specimens. This would seem to be particularly true of the 1921 if it was in fact struck with extra force, any kind of extra planchet preparation (it was after all a small, first year release), and especially given the fact that as few as eight (8) proof 1921 Peace dollars were struck before the die(s) were turned over for business strikes.

My 1H (satin proof dies):

Che_Grapes

Love the comment @Weiss and very good point. I did think my 1F matte die surface did look somewhat “matte-ish” when I saw it on line but in hand I’m just not sure. All 21s have a bit different luster and sort of a “rolling” cartwheel effect that can make them maybe harder to distinguish. But if you look at matte proof photos on line of the real proofs they do look very matte finish .... so I appreciate your view and a very sweet 1H to boot!!
I thought I had a 1H once but it was not to be upon closer inspection. I now have a 1F and a 1G (which only has obverse matte die and otherwise unique reverse, whereas 1F is with matte dies for both sides) that said I am told the 1G is actually more rare ... be interested to hear what others think on this topic.