In my mind, there are error experts, then there is you, IMO the most knowledgable individual on coin errors.
Curious what you think of the Ike "transitionals"
Do you consider the 74-D, 76-D, 77-D silver clad coins transitionals?
Do you consider the 73-S CN coins transitionals?
Thanks
Kevin
Kevin, FWIW I do not consider any of these four to be "transitional errors." I would call them "wrong metal errors," and for the silver ones struck in Denver would gladly consider calling them "wrong mint errors" if anybody wants to.
And also FWIW, I was at Coin World (not ANACS as I misspoke elsewhere) when the first of the 40% silver D-Mints surfaced. I had just opened a package with one in it and done weight and specific gravity to confirm it when the phone rang and a guy told me all excited that he had a 40% silver Ike struck at Denver and I said something to the effect of "What, another one?" and he said "WHAT???"
He was a blackjack dealer in Las Vegas and said that he occasionally encountered S-Mint 40% silver Ikes in the dollar coins they still used on the tables back then, but this was the first one he had seen with a D mint mark. Perhaps it was no coincidence that when I contacted the owner of the first coin for the story we did about the errors he was also from Vegas.
We naturally talked to the Mint, which was much more communicative back then, and they told us that Proof planchets of all denominations deemed unfit for Proof coinage at the SFAO were placed in barrels (not the normal tote bins) and shipped to Denver whenever they had enough barrels to fill up a truck, except for the cent planchets which could be used to make circulation strikes at the SFAO through 1974.
At some later date I learned from somebody at the Mint that because of our inquiry the Denver Mint had suspended the striking of the SFAO dollar planchets until they couild be checked by hand, and that in doing so they had discovered a few dozen more 40% silver planchets. I believe they also hand sorted all struck Ike dollars that had not yet left the Mint, but I don't recall if they found any more struck 40% silver coins. They may have.
I remember that it made me wish that we had not publicized the errors, because if we had not then more of them would have gotten out, but that's show biz!
@MrEureka said:
Call me crazy, but that 77-D does not look like it was struck on a proof planchet. Could it be that a number of silver planchets intended for Blue Ikes or Bicentennial mint sets also found their way to Denver?
That would be my assumption. I haven't seen a silver Denver Ike that looks like it was struck on a proof planchet.
However, some copper-nickel clad Denver Ikes are more brilliant than normal, and it is suspected that these may have been struck on proof planchets.
I've seen one 77-D 40% that is either PL or struck on a proof planchet. It does have some minor planchet irregularities that would fit in with the "rejected proof planchets" story, but I don't know that that proves anything.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Finest known Ty 1 variety, 1 of 15 PCGS-MS66, and nearly all (if not all) not looking like this!
Wondercoin
Anytime I see copper nickel clad that looks like that I think baked but I could be wrong as always. 66 is also surprising with that gash over the 7. Who ever submitted that is lucky i didn’t, AT damaged if I had.
Finest known Ty 1 variety, 1 of 15 PCGS-MS66, and nearly all (if not all) not looking like this!
Wondercoin
Anytime I see copper nickel clad that looks like that I think naked but I could be wrong as always. 66 is also surprising with that gash over the 7. Who ever submitted that is lucky i didn’t, AT damaged if I had.
What do you mean by "naked"?
Is the scratch that bad? It looks pretty deep from the photo but that could be due to the lighting. Have other Ikes with similar scratches graded, or not?
Crypto. I hear you. And my son Justin felt the exact same way as you on counting the marks for the grade. But, we have seen 67+FBL Franklins with great color forgiven for some real bad marks, Washington Quarters graded MS68 with nice color similarly forgiven for marks uncharacteristic for that grade level, etc. , etc. Putting aside the NT vs AT debate, I am fine with a bump up to MS66 for neat color. Obviously, PCGS was as well for the fortunate submitter of the coin.
Every 2-3 years on average, PCGS deems a single 1972-P Ty 1 nice enough to earn the pop top MS66 grade. I’m “tickled pink” to include this coin in my #1 ranked Registry set of MS/Proof Ikes with major varieties.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
@wondercoin said:
Crypto. I hear you. And my son Justin felt the exact same way as you on counting the marks for the grade. But, we have seen 67+FBL Franklins with great color forgiven for some real bad marks, Washington Quarters graded MS68 with nice color similarly forgiven for marks uncharacteristic for that grade level, etc. , etc. Putting aside the NT vs AT debate, I am fine with a bump up to MS66 for neat color. Obviously, PCGS was as well for the fortunate submitter of the coin.
Every 2-3 years on average, PCGS deems a single 1972-P Ty 1 nice enough to earn the pop top MS66 grade. I’m “tickled pink” to include this coin in my #1 ranked Registry set of MS/Proof Ikes with major varieties.
Wondercoin
Congrats on a beautiful coin! I certainly wouldn’t turn that coin down! Of course, graded as a top pop is very nice.
Since Crypto brought this up (and I am happy he did)-
About a week before the lovely toned Specimen I now own came up for sale at Heritage, the “white” coin I posted appeared at auction at GC the week before. Price Guide on this pop top coin is a mere $3,250. The white coin sold at GC at $4,500 the week before the Heritage sale and I was the underbidder. But, I didn’t bid what I know to be the true value of this coin in this grade as I didn’t want to create a price that would hurt my chances to buy the toned coin at a great price the following week. Obviously, the white coin is not a “wow” coin (at least to me).
I was happy to allow a fellow Ike enthusiast to win the white MS66 coin as I desperately wanted the color coin. Hopefully, one less bidder to worry about at Heritage the following week by me not also winning the white coin. My plan worked like a charm- another collector won the “white” coin (no longer needing this date), I didn’t run up the white coin to a level that might hurt me win the color coin and, in the end, 2 collectors got to add this finest known conditionally scarce coin to their collections in a single week. I ended up winning the color coin well under the level that the white coin sold at the week before and for a small fraction of my max bid.
Just having fun building out my Ike $1 set!
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
In the coming months I will be able to join in the fun, as I have 9 MS clad Ikes at PCGS for grading.
The coins are 1972 P, 1972 D, 1973 P, 1974 P, 1974 D, 1977 P, 1977 D, 1978 P and 1978 D. Some have attractive multi colored toning. Some have blazing luster. Some have minimal marks.
I am hoping that the Trueview photos of these 9 Ikes will show them off well.
I’m not an Ike specialist and I hope you didn’t take it as a shot. I meant baked and it only had to do with the specific rainbow spectrum and saturated concentric pattern. Even the differences of Obv and rev is seen by which side got different amounts of heat on what ever surface. I concede you know your stuff and better than me and I don’t play in those markets. I would defer to a handful of senior dealers and about origin and no matter what it’s a nice coin.
As to the coin you posted the Obv is certainly clean enough to support the superb Gem range although the rev is a bit chatty but the bigger hits are hidden in the devices and weighted less being the rev. The strike is there but I can’t tell luster, I could see it as a 66+ to a 65+ depending on the gleam. The melo tone on that example is what I am accustomed to seeing on CNi Ike’s.
Finest known Ty 1 variety, 1 of 15 PCGS-MS66, and nearly all (if not all) not looking like this!
Wondercoin
Anytime I see copper nickel clad that looks like that I think naked but I could be wrong as always. 66 is also surprising with that gash over the 7. Who ever submitted that is lucky i didn’t, AT damaged if I had.
What do you mean by "naked"?
Is the scratch that bad? It looks pretty deep from the photo but that could be due to the lighting. Have other Ikes with similar scratches graded, or not?
I meant baked, quite the auto correct.
The gash isnt so bad but I feel it precludes gem let alone Superb. I get eye appeal bumps but that is at least a 1.5 grade demerit being around the date which everyone looks at and that means they thought the coin was at least a 66.5 without it, down to 65 and up for pretty. They have had it in hand, I haven’t
@wondercoin said:
Since Crypto brought this up (and I am happy he did)-
About a week before the lovely toned Specimen I now own came up for sale at Heritage, the “white” coin I posted appeared at auction at GC the week before. Price Guide on this pop top coin is a mere $3,250. The white coin sold at GC at $4,500 the week before the Heritage sale and I was the underbidder. But, I didn’t bid what I know to be the true value of this coin in this grade as I didn’t want to create a price that would hurt my chances to buy the toned coin at a great price the following week. Obviously, the white coin is not a “wow” coin (at least to me).
I was happy to allow a fellow Ike enthusiast to win the white MS66 coin as I desperately wanted the color coin. Hopefully, one less bidder to worry about at Heritage the following week by me not also winning the white coin. My plan worked like a charm- another collector won the “white” coin (no longer needing this date), I didn’t run up the white coin to a level that might hurt me win the color coin and, in the end, 2 collectors got to add this finest known conditionally scarce coin to their collections in a single week. I ended up winning the color coin well under the level that the white coin sold at the week before and for a small fraction of my max bid.
Just having fun building out my Ike $1 set!
Wondercoin
Thanks for sharing this. It sounds like a great bidding situation and you got a great price for it. I might have to start looking for (more) rainbow Ikes myself!
@MarkKelley said:
Copper-nickel clad planchets either left over or rejected for proof coinage were shipped from San Francisco to Denver for use as business strikes. A silver blank mistakenly slipped into the shipment. The same thing also happened on a few half dollars as well.
Everybody thinks this, but I am sceptical. Silver (and gold) is more tightly controlled than normal CuNi material. I find it hard to believe any precious metal planchet was "mistakenly" anything.
You've obviously never opened a $1,000 bag of dollar coins.
I have. There was a definite mixture of Morgans, Peace Dollars, Silver IKE Dollars and Silver Eagles.
Not everybody is a coin collector and, as such, not everybody knows what they are doing.
I was referring to AT THE MINT. It was assumed since we were talking about the manufacture of these coins and silver planchets being left in the bin, etc.
Clearly no one at the mint is going to mix those coins in a bag.
What? They process thousands of coins an hour and you think they inspect each and every one that comes off the press?
The silver planchets were sent to Denver in error.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
Comments
Wow! Great info @FredWeinberg!
Thanks for posting this @SPalladino!
What is the definition of "transitional error" as used here? Would a transitional error be a "wrong metal error" in the same Minting facility?
I've seen one 77-D 40% that is either PL or struck on a proof planchet. It does have some minor planchet irregularities that would fit in with the "rejected proof planchets" story, but I don't know that that proves anything.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Anytime I see copper nickel clad that looks like that I think baked but I could be wrong as always. 66 is also surprising with that gash over the 7. Who ever submitted that is lucky i didn’t, AT damaged if I had.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
What do you mean by "naked"?
Is the scratch that bad? It looks pretty deep from the photo but that could be due to the lighting. Have other Ikes with similar scratches graded, or not?
Crypto. I hear you. And my son Justin felt the exact same way as you on counting the marks for the grade. But, we have seen 67+FBL Franklins with great color forgiven for some real bad marks, Washington Quarters graded MS68 with nice color similarly forgiven for marks uncharacteristic for that grade level, etc. , etc. Putting aside the NT vs AT debate, I am fine with a bump up to MS66 for neat color. Obviously, PCGS was as well for the fortunate submitter of the coin.
Every 2-3 years on average, PCGS deems a single 1972-P Ty 1 nice enough to earn the pop top MS66 grade. I’m “tickled pink” to include this coin in my #1 ranked Registry set of MS/Proof Ikes with major varieties.
Wondercoin
Congrats on a beautiful coin! I certainly wouldn’t turn that coin down! Of course, graded as a top pop is very nice.
Crypto: you like the coin for an MS66?
Wondercoin
Since Crypto brought this up (and I am happy he did)-
About a week before the lovely toned Specimen I now own came up for sale at Heritage, the “white” coin I posted appeared at auction at GC the week before. Price Guide on this pop top coin is a mere $3,250. The white coin sold at GC at $4,500 the week before the Heritage sale and I was the underbidder. But, I didn’t bid what I know to be the true value of this coin in this grade as I didn’t want to create a price that would hurt my chances to buy the toned coin at a great price the following week. Obviously, the white coin is not a “wow” coin (at least to me).
I was happy to allow a fellow Ike enthusiast to win the white MS66 coin as I desperately wanted the color coin. Hopefully, one less bidder to worry about at Heritage the following week by me not also winning the white coin. My plan worked like a charm- another collector won the “white” coin (no longer needing this date), I didn’t run up the white coin to a level that might hurt me win the color coin and, in the end, 2 collectors got to add this finest known conditionally scarce coin to their collections in a single week. I ended up winning the color coin well under the level that the white coin sold at the week before and for a small fraction of my max bid.
Just having fun building out my Ike $1 set!
Wondercoin
Gorgeous Ikes pictured in this thread.
In the coming months I will be able to join in the fun, as I have 9 MS clad Ikes at PCGS for grading.
The coins are 1972 P, 1972 D, 1973 P, 1974 P, 1974 D, 1977 P, 1977 D, 1978 P and 1978 D. Some have attractive multi colored toning. Some have blazing luster. Some have minimal marks.
I am hoping that the Trueview photos of these 9 Ikes will show them off well.
I’m not an Ike specialist and I hope you didn’t take it as a shot. I meant baked and it only had to do with the specific rainbow spectrum and saturated concentric pattern. Even the differences of Obv and rev is seen by which side got different amounts of heat on what ever surface. I concede you know your stuff and better than me and I don’t play in those markets. I would defer to a handful of senior dealers and about origin and no matter what it’s a nice coin.
As to the coin you posted the Obv is certainly clean enough to support the superb Gem range although the rev is a bit chatty but the bigger hits are hidden in the devices and weighted less being the rev. The strike is there but I can’t tell luster, I could see it as a 66+ to a 65+ depending on the gleam. The melo tone on that example is what I am accustomed to seeing on CNi Ike’s.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
I meant baked, quite the auto correct.
The gash isnt so bad but I feel it precludes gem let alone Superb. I get eye appeal bumps but that is at least a 1.5 grade demerit being around the date which everyone looks at and that means they thought the coin was at least a 66.5 without it, down to 65 and up for pretty. They have had it in hand, I haven’t
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Thanks for sharing this. It sounds like a great bidding situation and you got a great price for it. I might have to start looking for (more) rainbow Ikes myself!
What? They process thousands of coins an hour and you think they inspect each and every one that comes off the press?
The silver planchets were sent to Denver in error.
The name is LEE!