Altered MM 1875 P 1/1 Trade Dollar (PCGS graded)

stealer

This post is meant to be educational, as opposed to "outing" any particular party.

I am almost certain that this is originally an S-mint product: ("almost certain" because as any good scientist knows, you can never be 100%...).
It doesn't have the correct diagnostics for a true 1/1, also the beveled rims are entirely reminiscent of an S-mint product, as opposed to any P-mint which is typically squared off.

https://ebay.com/itm/144419688873?hash=item21a01591a9:g:JIoAAOSw7XNiDxYe

Also sold on HA a few months prior, I didn't see it then.
https://coins.ha.com/itm/trade-dollars/silver-and-related-dollars/1875-t-1-harshly-cleaned-pcgs-genuine-au-details-mintage-218-200-pcgs-7037-/a/132152-29382.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

Not only that, I found the matching S-mint coin.
https://coins.ha.com/itm/trade-dollars/silver-and-related-dollars/1875-s-t-1-ms63-pcgs-pcgs-population-278-254-ngc-census-168-207-cdn-1-100-whsle-bid-for-ngc-pcgs-ms63-mintage/a/1319-7224.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

Frankly, this coin is a bit suspect as well. Not the same dies as the first coin, looks like it could be a P-mint, but does not have any of the diagnostics. Could be a new die marriage I suppose, but AFAIK there is only one.
https://coins.ha.com/itm/trade-dollars/silver-and-related-dollars/1875-t-1-xf45-pcgs-pcgs-population-18-110-ngc-census-6-97-cdn-1-100-whsle-bid-for-ngc-pcgs-xf45-mintage-218-20/a/1319-7222.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

A genuine 1/1 with the diagnostics clear as day.
https://coins.ha.com/itm/trade-dollars/silver-and-related-dollars/1875-t-1-improperly-cleaned-ngc-details-au-ngc-census-4-84-pcgs-population-5-87-mintage-218-200-numismedia/a/131444-21628.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

@HeatherBoyd , can forward this to the relevant parties within PCGS?

mbogoman

I saw that one, too, and noticed it was missing all of the diagnostics of a genuine 1/1. I also felt the mm area looked messed with.

Great work on sussing out the 75-S with the matching die chip!

Batman23

That is interesting and eye opening. Good work and thanks for sharing.

291fifth

Look closely above the "DO" and you can see what appears to be a ghost "S".

sweetwilliet

Wow, not my series, but to my eyes it appears you are correct. There is a slightly off area where a mint mark would have been, the coloring there is definitely different than the rest of the coin, and there does appear to be some metal pushed up, like around the DO in dollar. IF that happened, it doesn’t appear that the perpetrator “increased” the value of the coin by much, did they?

stealer

@sweetwilliet said:
IF that happened, it doesn’t appear that the perpetrator “increased” the value of the coin by much, did they?

Unfortunately, they did. A comparable cleaned 75-S is worth around $100-$150 in todays market.

NumisOxide

Great detective work!

mbogoman

@stealer said:
This post is meant to be educational, as opposed to "outing" any particular party.

I am almost certain that this is originally an S-mint product: ("almost certain" because as any good scientist knows, you can never be 100%...).
It doesn't have the correct diagnostics for a true 1/1, also the beveled rims are entirely reminiscent of an S-mint product, as opposed to any P-mint which is typically squared off.

https://ebay.com/itm/144419688873?hash=item21a01591a9:g:JIoAAOSw7XNiDxYe

Also sold on HA a few months prior, I didn't see it then.
https://coins.ha.com/itm/trade-dollars/silver-and-related-dollars/1875-t-1-harshly-cleaned-pcgs-genuine-au-details-mintage-218-200-pcgs-7037-/a/132152-29382.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

Not only that, I found the matching S-mint coin.
https://coins.ha.com/itm/trade-dollars/silver-and-related-dollars/1875-s-t-1-ms63-pcgs-pcgs-population-278-254-ngc-census-168-207-cdn-1-100-whsle-bid-for-ngc-pcgs-ms63-mintage/a/1319-7224.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

Frankly, this coin is a bit suspect as well. Not the same dies as the first coin, looks like it could be a P-mint, but does not have any of the diagnostics. Could be a new die marriage I suppose, but AFAIK there is only one.
https://coins.ha.com/itm/trade-dollars/silver-and-related-dollars/1875-t-1-xf45-pcgs-pcgs-population-18-110-ngc-census-6-97-cdn-1-100-whsle-bid-for-ngc-pcgs-xf45-mintage-218-20/a/1319-7222.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

A genuine 1/1 with the diagnostics clear as day.
https://coins.ha.com/itm/trade-dollars/silver-and-related-dollars/1875-t-1-improperly-cleaned-ngc-details-au-ngc-census-4-84-pcgs-population-5-87-mintage-218-200-numismedia/a/131444-21628.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

@HeatherBoyd , can forward this to the relevant parties within PCGS?

That XF45 that you mention as "suspect" - could it be an impaired proof? It's got some very wide, squared off rims...

stealer

@mbogoman that's a good question, it hadn't crossed my mind. Could certainly be on reviewing the coin. Perhaps @keoj would better know the diagnostics.