Fairmont Collection - Hendricks Set

breakdown

A number of half eagle sets were added to the registry on February 2 under the title Fairmont Collection - Hendricks Set. See this link:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/fairmont-collection/othersets/66700

Any information about this collection? I am familiar with the Fairmont coins that StacksBowers has been selling (I even own a few) but would be interested to learn more about this collection.

Wahoo554

No info, but equally interested

cccoins

I have been looking at them since Long Beach. What an amazing set, which was likely put together over a short period of time. It has a on almost complete run of Carson City gold, and the cc $20 set is remarkable.

breakdown

@cccoins said:
I have been looking at them since Long Beach. What an amazing set, which was likely put together over a short period of time. It has a on almost complete run of Carson City gold, and the cc $20 set is remarkable.

In case you didn't see, StacksBowers is auctioning the sets off, starting in its Spring auction.

TurtleCat

I was looking at those lots online and drooling over them. I sure hope people don’t crack them out to mess with them in hopes of better grades.

dbldie55

Recently graded. Wonder if they sent in for re-grade or if they were all raw and were graded for selling.

Sets were all created on 2/1, so leads me to believe it is to promote the sale.

skier07

It seems odd to me that Stacks could create a high quality, inclusive set like this from coins laying around in a European bank vault. Something doesn’t make sense. What’s the likelihood of a 1861-D or 1870-CC $5 being discovered like this?

fathom

The fact they exist is great for the hobby.

$5 collectors rarely see a run of '63-'64-'65 philly.

pcgscacgold

It will be interesting to watch this auction. Many of the guide prices for the no motto $10 Liberty's have not moved up in the current market. This auction may finally cause some price guide movement.

For example the 1850 Large date in AU58 has PCGS pop of 9 with only 6 higher and is still listed as a $3250 coin. CAC price guide is at $2250 for that coin (WOW, I would buy every coin I could find at that price). No way this one sells for anything near that. The AU55 1850 has PCGS pop of 9 and is still listed as an $1850 coin and $1680 in CAC guide. These rarely come up for sale so it makes pricing hard. Maybe this auction will add some life to the Liberty pricing guides. If the current prices are correct, I have a chance to be a buyer.

Edit: Misread the 1850 as a Large Date but it is Small date. Still think many of these coins will cause adjustments to price guides.

Pedzola

@skier07 said:
It seems odd to me that Stacks could create a high quality, inclusive set like this from coins laying around in a European bank vault. Something doesn’t make sense. What’s the likelihood of a 1861-D or 1870-CC $5 being discovered like this?

I would love to be an insider who gets to know the answers to questions like - where did these coins come from? How much US gold is sitting in european vaults? And how do I get to see it and buy it raw?

One possible answer to how such a collection comes to be is that there is simply a massive hoard of coins and someone just took the time pick the best out of the pile. But where did that pile come from?

shorecoll

Check the news, there are assets moving all over the world for various reasons.

skier07

@Pedzola said:

@skier07 said:
It seems odd to me that Stacks could create a high quality, inclusive set like this from coins laying around in a European bank vault. Something doesn’t make sense. What’s the likelihood of a 1861-D or 1870-CC $5 being discovered like this?

I would love to be an insider who gets to know the answers to questions like - where did these coins come from? How much US gold is sitting in european vaults? And how do I get to see it and buy it raw?

One possible answer to how such a collection comes to be is that there is simply a massive hoard of coins and someone just took the time pick the best out of the pile. But where did that pile come from?

If there are massive hoards in Europe with good stuff like this the people who know will be tight lipped because eventually it will have a negative effect on prices.

fathom

Hoards can increase demand and move more collectors into series.

The unobtainable becomes obtainable. With real rare dates that are always in demand prices remain relatively stable.

skier07

@fathom said:
Hoards can increase demand and move more collectors into series.

The unobtainable becomes obtainable. With real rare dates that are always in demand prices remain relatively stable.

I had a gold expert tell me the same thing but I’m not convinced. If the total population of a rare date increases from 50 to 55 how can this be good for you if you already have this date?

fathom

@skier07 said:

@fathom said:
Hoards can increase demand and move more collectors into series.

The unobtainable becomes obtainable. With real rare dates that are always in demand prices remain relatively stable.

I had a gold expert tell me the same thing but I’m not convinced. If the total population of a rare date increases from 50 to 55 how can this be good for you if you already have this date?

If you check the $5 sale prices on key dates since the Fairmont sales you will see they continue to increase.

More demand results in fierce bidding.

breakdown

@fathom said:

@skier07 said:

@fathom said:
Hoards can increase demand and move more collectors into series.

The unobtainable becomes obtainable. With real rare dates that are always in demand prices remain relatively stable.

I had a gold expert tell me the same thing but I’m not convinced. If the total population of a rare date increases from 50 to 55 how can this be good for you if you already have this date?

If you check the $5 sale prices on key dates since the Fairmont sales you will see they continue to increase.

More demand results in fierce bidding.

I have to agree with fathom even though skier07's logic makes sense. Fairmont has poured coins into the half eagle market for the last couple years and against logic, prices just keep going up.

jonruns

I think both posters are right. Prices for a date may go up for a while but ultimately the prices will decline if enough new ones emerge...which is why they are being released slowly over time...look at the shipwreck dates as an example of price decreases...

From a DW article on Civil War gold and the Kunker sales:

"Are there more of these lurking overseas? My best guess is yes; especially given the uniform number of coins per date which were offered. Will it impact the price levels of these issues? So far the impact has not been negative but if there are, say, five more 1862-S eagles then I’d expect prices to drop."

Currin

FYI
I will be posting a series of coins from this collection in the next few days, including $5, $10, and $20.

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/997819/hansen-watch#latest

semikeycollector

@fathom said:
The fact they exist is great for the hobby.

$5 collectors rarely see a run of '63-'64-'65 philly.

Hi Fathom,

I started collecting the Lib $5 about a year ago and would love any of the 63,64,65. For me to afford, it would have to be one of the lowest graded specimens, Not too many like that at all!

Only have the 1842 LL, 1865-s and 1872. Only going for better dates.

pcgscacgold

Heard an interesting conversation at the local coin show on Friday. A better known area dealer was talking with someone about higher grade type gold. The Fairmont collection and CAC came up. The dealer talked at length about how every coin in that sale was over-graded by at least a grade or two and that people were getting stuck with coins that will never move. He also said that no way CAC should have stickered them. He said the coins were beaten up. This contradicts what I have read from the national gold dealers like Legends, Winter and Witter.

I will say he also made a comment that CAC gold does not sell any better (or for higher prices) than non-CAC gold.

Floridafacelifter

@pcgscacgold said:

I will say he also made a comment that CAC gold does not sell any better (or for higher prices) than non-CAC gold.

Balderdash and poppycock- I don’t always buy gold, but when I do, it’s PCGS/CAC- 100%, no exceptions, and I expect to have to pay up for it

skier07

The leading gold authorities who personally viewed the Hendricks Collection all felt that the set was conservatively graded and that most of the coins were very nice. I don’t think Doug Winter spent $2M for his health on a bunch of overgraded coins.

Bigtree

I find it fascinating that we’ve known about the Fairmont hoard for four years and still can only guess at how deep it is and how many more coins will be coming to market. Stacks seems to have done a masterful job of slowly releasing the coins and stimulating demand while tightly controlling information. I agree that true rarities are likely safe from price suppression, but the “faux-rarities” (Doug Winter’s term) might be at risk.

pcgscacgold

@Floridafacelifter said:

@pcgscacgold said:

I will say he also made a comment that CAC gold does not sell any better (or for higher prices) than non-CAC gold.

Balderdash and poppycock- I don’t always buy gold, but when I do, it’s PCGS/CAC- 100%, no exceptions, and I expect to have to pay up for it

I agree. That’s why CAC is my middle name.

It was just an interesting conversation since I plan to add a few of the coins to my type set.

Floridafacelifter

@pcgscacgold said:

@Floridafacelifter said:

@pcgscacgold said:

I agree. That’s why CAC is my middle name.

And PCGS is your first name!
Funny I don’t feel quite as strongly in the silver and copper departments and own both with and without CAC, but with gold there are so many coins and they are so expensive I just feel better with both on the label.

SCT

Here is the AU53+ I was able to pick up. My at home photos are lacking so I will post the true view. I'm very happy with the purchase.

pcgscacgold

@SCT said:
Here is the AU53+ I was able to pick up. My at home photos are lacking so I will post the true view. I'm very happy with the purchase.

Great looking coin from a series I enjoy.

burdell

I thought this tidbit was interesting ---- the Hendricks set coins 'were set aside years ago'. Page vii of the catalog.