What's the mid 1800's Russia market like these days?
MasonG
Posts: 6,261 ✭✭✭✭✭
I'm trying to estimate a value for an 1847 СПБ АБ Russian rouble (C#168.1). SCWC shows values of $575 UNC / $7,100 BU. At about a half million mintage, one of the lower mintages for the type. The coin is untoned and bright with nice luster and no hairlines (no pictures- sorry). Obverse grades 64, reverse is a little baggy at 62. The most recent auction result for the date I found was from 2018, NGC AU58, $1,200. Other dates graded MS62/63 for the type seem to be selling somewhere around the BU value in Krause. Based on that, UNC at $575 is low but $7,100 for BU is a pretty big jump and I was hoping to find some completed auctions to help close in on a value.
Any thoughts? TIA
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Not sure about that coin but Heritage has an auction of Russian coins coming up soon
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
СПБ АБ or СПБ ПА?
Should be СПБ ПА. Sorry about that, I copy/pasted the characters from another webpage so I wouldn't have to look up how to enter them and got the wrong ones. Doh!
maybe you have seen this link already: https://www.m-dv.ru/en/catalog/id,1927/prohod.html
hth
Thanks for the link.
You can search for sales here: https://www.coinarchives.com/w/results.php?search=1847+rouble&s=0&upcoming=0&results=100
There's also Numisbids (Katz sell a lot of Russian coins) https://www.numisbids.com/n.php?p=lot&sid=4001&lot=679
It would have to be a pretty amazing coin to be to be worth over $1000. Grading is quite common in Russian coins - more than most world coins - but the only place I can imagine seeing $7000 is on Heritage, where buyers go for the slab more than the coin.
The Russian market is hard to ascertain these days. The only coins that are holding to the old highs are the ultra high grades with low pops and the truely rare. I could see a $7000 coin in that 1847 if it was a 65 or so.
What I'm seeing is a lot of bottom fishing going on, mainly by Russians. I still have quite a bit of my old collection and don't have a need to sell it. Some of the offers I get on my listings are ridiculous, mostly from Russians. Just got offered $20(with free shipping) for a nice Siberian 5 Kopeck! I offered to buy all he can sell me problem free at that price, even in lower grades! While my coins aren't sailing out the door, they are slowly selling at the prices I want. The way I look at it is it is illegal to remove these coins from mother Russia. Of course I'm sure some are smuggled out. With the inflow of these coins into Russia it's only going to reduce the supply available to Westers and Ex-Pat Russians in the west.
your ebay listings are the subject of many jokes among Russian collectors, just because the occasional rare coin gets snapped up instantly, because you have no idea what's good (which is fun, no criticism, keep them coming), but the rest - ugh - we see the rest over and over and over at least once a week for years, corroded dengi worth $20 priced $125, etc. Any realistic offers get the same I hillbilly I-know-Russian-better-than-you fuggetaboutit, so the coins sit. I'm sure the lowball offer was a jab at dark humor, don't take it seriously, eventually, with wild inflation, big changes in the market, or an imminent comet impact, everything will sell
edited to add... we all want to know what NGC did for you on that 1764 "original" polushka, but here's the "nice" Siberian 5k priced at 111 euro...
Here's an actually nice one that sold for 115 euro - see the difference?
I have to LOL at you! As I posted before, NGC paid me close to 5 figures for that Polushka. As to your Siberian comparison...I see the difference! It's either a circulated novodel or it's fake! I sold that corroded Denga you are referring to for $100 at a show to an experienced collector. I learned long ago to wait out the lulls in the market. You can keep attacking me all you want, as this must be at least the 3rd time. Perhaps you can buy what I have left from who ever I leave them to after I die!
PS I'll buy any and all genuine Siberian coin of any denomination with an identifiable date and reasonable surfaces for $20.
You can jab at me all you want! I don't give a flying F if I sell them or not.
Edit to, you see my ebay listings once a month if you are referring to relisting!
I'm glad NGC paid you for a coin that doesn't exist, an obvious fake, that shouldn't have ever sold for real money. What a windfall for you, and a mess up on their part. But you never admit that you swore up and down it was correct till the end, which is funny. The coin doesn't exist. It's like guaranteeing an 1805 dollar. Should it have made it in a slab? No. Should some of the blame be on the buyer for buying an obvious fake? If they know what they're doing, I'd say maybe. If they don't, then pay them off and make as few waves as possible. That seems to be what happened, IMHO. Anyway, there's tons of slabbed Russian fakes. I'm also glad the catalog is hard to understand, because it's still the wild west out there. So how do we do this? Spit on our hands and give it a good shake? I'm sorry, I'll cut it out, at least until you refer to your expertise again.
I never have and never will claim to be an expert on Russian coins! I was just an avid collector. As to the 1764 Siberian Polushka, Perhaps you should confront the hermitage museum in Moscow? I have a reprint of the 1923 work which has pictures of the entire collection in the Hermitage. There sits a picture of a 1764 Siberian Polushka that looks identical to the one I had!
Okay, good, at least we've got that expertise thing out of the way. I'm curious about the Hermitage museum "in Moscow" catalog. Please take a pic of the polushka from the catalog and we can dig up the NGC pic of your fake. Let's see how they looked exactly the same. How did you prove what you paid for it so NGC paid you? If you're going to call Russian collectors bottom feeders, you can expect a little ribbing.
The pictures of both have been posted before. Feel free to find them if you wish to continue your attack! Some how I feel you are one of the bottom feeders I'm referring to and are just upset I don't want to sell you my coins as cheap as you would like me to!
There are other cities in Russia and the Hermitage is in a different one. You referred to the bottom feeders being Russian. How other than ad hominem could you answer the question? Am I Russian because you say lowballed you? Is that what Russians do, lowball dealers with appropriately priced items on eBay? I've cherrypicked you, which I guess is a kind of lowballing, and I'll continue to do so when I notice something, but I never haggled, because I don't want my friends to get the coin I haggle. You'd never shown the catalog picture, because you can't have a catalog with a picture of an original 1764 polushka. I'm still curious what NGC does when a dealer with so much confidence comes out of the woodwork and says they spent near 5 figures on a slabbed impossible they swear is the one from a hundred year old catalog but can't prove what they paid. Does it makes sense for that number to be high, as if 1799 half-cents exist, and darn it, we should pay FMV of what a real one would go for if one showed up, or should the number be low, because nobody with any sense would buy a 1799 half-cent as a real coin, or should it be arbitrarily in the middle to preserve their reputation and have people shut up about how they spent 20 seconds certifying a modern fake novodel as an impossible original coin even if there's scant evidence of the price paid? What's a certified fake 1934 double eagle worth? I think the answer is that it depends.
Keep blowing your steam! I sit back and watch!
Thanks to everybody for the input. From what's been posted, it appears figuring the value of a coin like I described would best be determined at auction.
I know you're pretending not to care