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David Ortiz - Hall of Famer

TabeTabe Posts: 5,920 ✭✭✭✭✭

Ortiz is in. 77.9% of the vote.

Comments

  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 25, 2022 4:50PM

    And Clemens, Schilling and Bonds run out of eligibility

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  • MisterTim1962MisterTim1962 Posts: 318 ✭✭✭

    Yes! Another Red Sox plaque in the Hall of Fame! Way to go, Big Papi!

  • MCMLVToppsMCMLVTopps Posts: 4,580 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Mr. Clutch for the Red Sox Nation.
    Congrats Big Papi!!

  • charlesf20charlesf20 Posts: 384 ✭✭✭

    Wow. I'm stunned.

  • ArtVandelayArtVandelay Posts: 645 ✭✭✭✭

    This is proof and evidence for any struggling young MLB player who is barely making the team that PED's can make you a Hall of Famer.

  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ArtVandelay said:
    This is proof and evidence for any struggling young MLB player who is barely making the team that PED's can make you a Hall of Famer.

    I thought Ortiz's tide may have raised the Clemens, Arod and Bonds boats but that clearly wasn't the case

    m

    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • ArtVandelayArtVandelay Posts: 645 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 25, 2022 6:42PM

    Papi is definitely a very likable "character". He was great with the press and the fans loved him. Nobody has much love for Clemens, Bonds, or ARod. I think it is as simple as that.

  • MisterTim1962MisterTim1962 Posts: 318 ✭✭✭

    This is proof and evidence for any struggling young MLB player who is barely making the team that PED's can make you a Hall of Famer.

    Nothing was ever proven in that regard. Anonymous source quoted by the New York Times (Red Sox haters) claiming that he was among 100 players that tested positive for PEDs back in 2003. Disgusitng how newspapers can publish that sort of trash and get away with it with no actual proof of anything.

  • TabeTabe Posts: 5,920 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MisterTim1962 said:

    This is proof and evidence for any struggling young MLB player who is barely making the team that PED's can make you a Hall of Famer.

    Nothing was ever proven in that regard. Anonymous source quoted by the New York Times (Red Sox haters) claiming that he was among 100 players that tested positive for PEDs back in 2003. Disgusitng how newspapers can publish that sort of trash and get away with it with no actual proof of anything.

    Ortiz and Rob Manfred have both confirmed that Ortiz tested positive.

  • MisterTim1962MisterTim1962 Posts: 318 ✭✭✭

    Tested positive for what? Creatine or something similar? Perfectly legal and bought over the counter. I'm sure Ortiz never stated that he took steroids.

  • daltexdaltex Posts: 3,477 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm on record as saying that Mark McGwire does not belong in the Hall of Fame. However, now that Ortiz has been elected, I can't think of a single good argument for keeping him out.

  • daltexdaltex Posts: 3,477 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @daltex said:
    I'm on record as saying that Mark McGwire does not belong in the Hall of Fame. However, now that Ortiz has been elected, I can't think of a single good argument for keeping him out.

    https://stathead.com/tiny/SJ94q

  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I never realized that 36% of McGwire's hits were homeruns

    m

    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • coolstanleycoolstanley Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The baseball Hall of Fame popularity contest.

    What a sham.

    Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!

    Ignore list -Basebal21

  • jay0791jay0791 Posts: 3,508 ✭✭✭✭

    Now that Bonds and Clemens are out with the writers. What is next for them. Is there a veteran's committee that will take over? if so when does that start? If so, what are the chances they look at pure numbers and not weather Bonds was a nice guy or not and what if any PEDEs come into play.

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  • coolstanleycoolstanley Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jay0791 said:
    Now that Bonds and Clemens are out with the writers. What is next for them. Is there a veteran's committee that will take over? if so when does that start? If so, what are the chances they look at pure numbers and not weather Bonds was a nice guy or not and what if any PEDEs come into play.

    They will both be on the veterans committee ballot starting on Dec of 2022.

    Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!

    Ignore list -Basebal21

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,171 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Justacommeman said:
    I never realized that 36% of McGwire's hits were homeruns

    m

    Killebrew used to be #2 in HR per AB of all players with more than 500 HRs behind Babe Ruth.

    Now we get to see McGwire at #1.

    What a joke.

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • TabeTabe Posts: 5,920 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MisterTim1962 said:
    Tested positive for what? Creatine or something similar? Perfectly legal and bought over the counter. I'm sure Ortiz never stated that he took steroids.

    They didn't state what, just that it was something on their banned list. I don't believe creatine was on the list but could be wrong.

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 10,393 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ortiz lifetime OB% was .380

    If you turn all 762 of Barry Bonds HRs into outs, his OB% would be .384

    that is insane

    George Brett, Bobby Orr and Terry Bradshaw.

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,171 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Tabe said:

    @MisterTim1962 said:
    Tested positive for what? Creatine or something similar? Perfectly legal and bought over the counter. I'm sure Ortiz never stated that he took steroids.

    They didn't state what, just that it was something on their banned list. I don't believe creatine was on the list but could be wrong.

    Lots of discussion here in Minnesota on sports radio. The host of the show was saying he thought it was a diuretic that was on the banned list.

    Ortiz may have been trying to lose some weight, or he might have been masking steroid use.

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • MisterTim1962MisterTim1962 Posts: 318 ✭✭✭

    My take is that Ortiz never looked like the other steroid freaks. He never looked like a bodybuilder with the huge sculpted upper body with a thin waist like Bonds, Palmeiro, Sosa and McGwire had. He reminded me of Boog Powell or Harmon Killebrew, except taller. Just my take on it...

  • charliej2356charliej2356 Posts: 277 ✭✭✭

    Yep, the HoF has officially become a joke -- no Bonds, no Clemens -- it's now the HoPG (Hall of Pretty Good).

    If you want to know who really excelled on the diamond, then check out the value of a player's baseball card.

  • DarinDarin Posts: 6,247 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I still hardly ever hear it mentioned how the juiced up freaks were robbing from the average Joe ballplayers.
    You hear oh it was a level playing field everyone could have used steroids if they wanted to.
    Well what about the players who are actually morally opposed to cheating and also didn't want to contaminate
    their bodies with drugs that could destroy them. Those are the ones I feel bad for.
    Average Joe is out on the mound with a one run lead and has retired 5 hitters in a row. Up to the plate
    comes a half human, half sasquatch looking beast drooling at the mouth. The umpire looks over this alien
    looking creature with the bulbous, overgrown head and quickly consults his rulebook. The ump can't find
    anything in the rulebook stating that the players have to be 100% human so he allows the deformed monstrosity to bat.
    The abomination steps to the plate, let's out two or three low guttural growls, urinates all over himself, then lets
    go with a mighty hack at the first pitch, sending it out of the ballpark. As the mutant aberration rounds the bases,
    the crowd notices it sometimes drops down and scoots along on its knuckles much like a chimpanzee which the
    crowd assumes would be a cousin to this creature. The ogre crosses home plate, brays at the moon,
    and then returns to the dugout. After the game the pitcher is sent to the minors.

    Now how many times have you and I witnessed this exact scene play out when Bonds and McGwire were playing?
    I ask you, how is it different from somebody robbing the pitcher at gunpoint?

    DISCLAIMER FOR BASEBAL21
    In the course of every human endeavor since the dawn of time the risk of human error has always been a factor. Including but not limited to field goals, 4th down attempts, or multiple paragraph ramblings on a sports forum authored by someone who shall remain anonymous.
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Guys not using also get hit at the other end of the spectrum when completing for the last roster spots. The guys struggling to make the team. Those who didn't use were/ are going up against those who are using to gain a competitive edge

    m

    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • charliej2356charliej2356 Posts: 277 ✭✭✭

    Darin: Hopefully your post is intended only for comic relief. If so, then congrats on a passing grade in Creative Writing.

    If, however, your post is intended to detract from the HoF qualifications of Barry Bonds, then you clearly know nothing about hand-eye coordination required to excel at hitting major-league pitching. Did you ever play baseball beyond backyard wiffle ball?

  • DarinDarin Posts: 6,247 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @charliej2356 said:
    Darin: Hopefully your post is intended only for comic relief. If so, then congrats on a passing grade in Creative Writing.

    If, however, your post is intended to detract from the HoF qualifications of Barry Bonds, then you clearly know nothing about hand-eye coordination required to excel at hitting major-league pitching. Did you ever play baseball beyond backyard wiffle ball?

    Charlie- Yes I played baseball way beyond wiffle ball and know about hand eye coordination.
    But what does that have to do with steroid user's cheating other non- user players out of hard earned money?
    What I'm saying is steroid users' took money out of non users' pockets.
    Any comments on that?

    DISCLAIMER FOR BASEBAL21
    In the course of every human endeavor since the dawn of time the risk of human error has always been a factor. Including but not limited to field goals, 4th down attempts, or multiple paragraph ramblings on a sports forum authored by someone who shall remain anonymous.
  • DarinDarin Posts: 6,247 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I actually will come to regret that I even posted on this thread, because the hall of fame really doesn't matter to me anymore. Over the years as some of the good but not great players started getting in, it was like I just cared less and
    less about the HOF. So if Bonds and McGwire and Clemens etc. get in I really just don't care.
    Its more on a human, moral level is why I don't like them. They're cheaters, plain and simple.

    DISCLAIMER FOR BASEBAL21
    In the course of every human endeavor since the dawn of time the risk of human error has always been a factor. Including but not limited to field goals, 4th down attempts, or multiple paragraph ramblings on a sports forum authored by someone who shall remain anonymous.
  • spacehaydukespacehayduke Posts: 5,442 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Someone voted for the Freak? Seriously? He as a burn out in like 4 or so seasons (Seasons 2-5 where he had a decent ERA etc), them became average for a few then out. Great while he was hot with the G's for those years, but that does not make an HOF career.


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  • EstilEstil Posts: 6,866 ✭✭✭✭

    So not only does the Mr. October of pitchers STILL not get in (just because his political views are a little different is the WORST excuse ever for keeping a player out; I don't care if he's a card carrying member of Communist Party USA or the John Birch Society), but two 'roid guys actually did better???

    In the famous words of John Stossel, give me a break.

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  • charliej2356charliej2356 Posts: 277 ✭✭✭

    "Any comments on that?" Yes, and here they are:
    When we discuss alleged steroid users, we almost exclusively discuss/target the most successful/popular players (for example, you mentioned Bonds and McGwire in your post above). Bonds and McGwire would have been major-league players regardless of any drugs/steroids on the planet -- therefore they did not cheat anyone out of hard-earned money -- they did not take money out of non-users' pockets. If you'd like to wax prophetic about this subject, then you need to discuss marginal players whose steroid use potentially enabled them to land a spot on the roster, not the HoF caliber players. Does that make sense to you?

  • TabeTabe Posts: 5,920 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Estil said:
    So not only does the Mr. October of pitchers STILL not get in (just because his political views are a little different is the WORST excuse ever for keeping a player out; I don't care if he's a card carrying member of Communist Party USA or the John Birch Society), but two 'roid guys actually did better???

    In the famous words of John Stossel, give me a break.

    I mean, he did call for the murder of journalists and asked for people to NOT vote for him as well...

  • DarinDarin Posts: 6,247 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @charliej2356 said:
    "Any comments on that?" Yes, and here they are:
    When we discuss alleged steroid users, we almost exclusively discuss/target the most successful/popular players (for example, you mentioned Bonds and McGwire in your post above). Bonds and McGwire would have been major-league players regardless of any drugs/steroids on the planet -- therefore they did not cheat anyone out of hard-earned money -- they did not take money out of non-users' pockets. If you'd like to wax prophetic about this subject, then you need to discuss marginal players whose steroid use potentially enabled them to land a spot on the roster, not the HoF caliber players. Does that make sense to you?

    Yes it does make sense, the marginal players are scum also but they weren't the ones pseudo breaking Hank Aarons'
    or Roger Maris' home run records. So naturally Bonds, McGwire, A-Rod etc. get the most attention.
    And yes they were taking money out of non cheaters pockets. You think average Joe pitcher couldn't have negotiated
    a bigger contract if he hadn't given up so many steroid induced taters to Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, etc?
    I've actually heard non cheating pitchers of the era talk about this exact subject, why don't you have a conversation
    with them and tell them the cheaters weren't taking hard earned money from them?

    DISCLAIMER FOR BASEBAL21
    In the course of every human endeavor since the dawn of time the risk of human error has always been a factor. Including but not limited to field goals, 4th down attempts, or multiple paragraph ramblings on a sports forum authored by someone who shall remain anonymous.
  • ernie11ernie11 Posts: 1,899 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 27, 2022 4:22PM

    @Tabe said:

    @Estil said:
    So not only does the Mr. October of pitchers STILL not get in (just because his political views are a little different is the WORST excuse ever for keeping a player out; I don't care if he's a card carrying member of Communist Party USA or the John Birch Society), but two 'roid guys actually did better???

    In the famous words of John Stossel, give me a break.

    I mean, he did call for the murder of journalists and asked for people to NOT vote for him as well...

    And last year, he had 71.1% of the vote and then told the Hall of Fame to remove him from the ballot. So quite a few writers obliged by leaving him off their ballot this year. As the old saying goes, you gotta watch out what you ask for, you might actually get it. IMO, I haven't seen a HOF candidate do more things to shoot himself in the foot since Pete Rose. Was it too much of a stretch for Schill to act like your typical aspiring HOF candidate? Apparently, it was.

  • charliej2356charliej2356 Posts: 277 ✭✭✭

    Darin:
    Again, if you'd like to wax prophetic about this subject, then you need to discuss marginal players whose steroid use potentially enabled them to land a spot on the roster, not the HoF caliber players. Only the marginal players who cheated took away roster spots (aka money) from non-using marginal players.

    So, Darin, name a few of the "cheaters" who would not have made money in the major leagues if they had not used illegal substances. Just name a few -- your answers will no doubt entertain all of us reading this thread. Don't be shy.

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,171 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Darin said:
    I still hardly ever hear it mentioned how the juiced up freaks were robbing from the average Joe ballplayers.
    You hear oh it was a level playing field everyone could have used steroids if they wanted to.
    Well what about the players who are actually morally opposed to cheating and also didn't want to contaminate
    their bodies with drugs that could destroy them. Those are the ones I feel bad for.
    Average Joe is out on the mound with a one run lead and has retired 5 hitters in a row. Up to the plate
    comes a half human, half sasquatch looking beast drooling at the mouth. The umpire looks over this alien
    looking creature with the bulbous, overgrown head and quickly consults his rulebook. The ump can't find
    anything in the rulebook stating that the players have to be 100% human so he allows the deformed monstrosity to bat.
    The abomination steps to the plate, let's out two or three low guttural growls, urinates all over himself, then lets
    go with a mighty hack at the first pitch, sending it out of the ballpark. As the mutant aberration rounds the bases,
    the crowd notices it sometimes drops down and scoots along on its knuckles much like a chimpanzee which the
    crowd assumes would be a cousin to this creature. The ogre crosses home plate, brays at the moon,
    and then returns to the dugout. After the game the pitcher is sent to the minors.

    Now how many times have you and I witnessed this exact scene play out when Bonds and McGwire were playing?
    I ask you, how is it different from somebody robbing the pitcher at gunpoint?

    FANTASTIC POST.

    For those of you bringing up the old "hand-eye coordination" argument, recent studies have indicated that steroids can improve hand-eye coordination as well as make players stronger and heal faster.

    Bonds would most likely been a HOFer had he never juiced, but McGwire and Sosa were not likely to get there on their pre- steroid performances.

    Now McGwire sits at the top of the HR/AB title while Bonds has the record for most all time.

    THEY DON'T DESERVE IT!

    I'm sure he's just fine, but look at Jim Thome's legacy, no one really talks about him, even though he might be the second greatest HR hitter of all time after Ruth.

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • DarinDarin Posts: 6,247 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @charliej2356 said:
    Darin:
    Again, if you'd like to wax prophetic about this subject, then you need to discuss marginal players whose steroid use potentially enabled them to land a spot on the roster, not the HoF caliber players. Only the marginal players who cheated took away roster spots (aka money) from non-using marginal players.

    So, Darin, name a few of the "cheaters" who would not have made money in the major leagues if they had not used illegal substances. Just name a few -- your answers will no doubt entertain all of us reading this thread. Don't be shy.

    Okay, I think I've got it now. Your stance is that its okay for the big stars to cheat because no one is going to take
    away their roster spot whether they use steroids or not. Thanks for clarifying.
    And I've already told you how Bonds, McGwire, Sosa etc took money from non juicers.
    Reading comprehension course perhaps?

    DISCLAIMER FOR BASEBAL21
    In the course of every human endeavor since the dawn of time the risk of human error has always been a factor. Including but not limited to field goals, 4th down attempts, or multiple paragraph ramblings on a sports forum authored by someone who shall remain anonymous.
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