09SVDB Counterfeit!
MarkW63
Posts: 1,532 ✭✭✭✭
Obverse image is to poor quality to tell much, but the reverse show's at lest one counterfeit marker with the die chip bump about half way up the left Wheat ear.
Then there is the shallow cut valley "N" in UNITED.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/304307358050?
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
0
Comments
Is the VDB off center?
I'm going to say it does look to far to the left.
And the cross bar of the "B" isn't slanted nearly enough.
But, if you look at the left Wheat ear, along its inside line about halfway up you can see a bump (or not) that bump is a known counterfeit marker.
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
I'm waiting to decide until it whispers to me.
Reported.
Interesting post. I'm in the market for a nice 09 VDB S and have been studying up on them. I didn't notice the bump on the left wheat. I'm a buyer that needs to buy a graded coin.
All right I'm going to hint at another counterfeit marker on this coin and will see how long it takes or how many clues it takes before the marker gets revealed.
The problem is on the reverse, and in the area the Wheat's? (excluding the die chip marker).
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
Lincoln’s lip is in the “that’s gross” position
They're several members that follow my 09SVDB threads that have done a pretty deep dive in just this coin and in the world of its counterfeit's and altered version. I'm 100% certain that me or any of the others would love to be of any help with can towards helping you to better spot a phony one of these, and they're are PLENTY of them to be found.
Follow along in this thread, and PLEASE ask questions. As long as this thread stays on somewhat the same track as the OP (along with some side humor of course) it'll stay interesting and informative.
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
Thank You. I will follow along and I'm going to look for your previous posts you mentioned.
One of the last coins I would buy raw.
Okay, you could skip the last two of these threads they went WAY off the cliff with stuff that's to hard to follow, but other than those the rest is good.
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
If you are still learning S-VDB, I highly and strongly recommend buying a straight graded, no problem coin in a holder.
One bonus of buying a straight graded coin is that it is easier to check what recent auctions have sold for.
EBay, Great Collections, Stacks Bowers, Heritage - all auction houses
If you have a decent amount of cash - Legend Auctions
Thanks for the advice. A straight graded coin is what I'm after. Along with many, many other coins.
As Hawk Harrelson would say "he gone !!".
@m4832
Its hard to tell much about the obverse because of poor pictures, but!
Take a close look at how far right the mint marks appears to be! then compare it with these images to see if there is a MATCH?
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
"The problem is on the reverse, and in the area the Wheat's? (excluding the die chip marker)."
The right wheat ear seems like it's missing a little detail mid way down by the rim.
I'm not saying what your seeing isn't a problem, but that's not what I'm hinting at,
Another hint, the problem is exactly the same and its on both Wheat's!
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
POOF! gone, that was easy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtzULc_LA3w
The seller claimed the found the beauty in a roll, and is still in shock finding it, and its real too!
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
The spikes on the wheat do not form a triangle and would not be a good part of a gluten free diet
The tips of the wheat ears don't come to sharp point. ???
That's it you dirty dog, the tips of the Wheat ears are rounded not pointed you did really good (again)
Look at the Wheat Tips on this genuine one. (lines added)
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
I see you picked up on the problem pretty quick too, nice
Look how far the mint mark is under the 0.
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
Just need to keep searching those rolls from overseas
My ears aren't very sharp, either. Does that mean I'm a counterfeit? 🤔
In a little bit I'll take a look on ebay for what I'll call a Genuine RAW 09SVB, and then we'll let those following this thread verify my call Right or Wrong?
Things I'll be look for will be,
Correct VDB,
Correct mint mark font and location,
Correct font used in the "N" in UNITED
No serif's on the numbers in the date,
And of course no known counterfeit markers, as with the one in the OP.
So, a bit later will see how I fair.
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
I see what you mean. The counterfeit's mint mark looks a lot like a genuine position 4.
I never knew about the dot in the S's top loop or the shallow N.
I want to save the page you posted. Can you somehow get it to me in a way other than me just saving this post?
The counterfeit mint mark is too far right
Take a screenshot or drag the image to your desktop.
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
@MarkW63 "the tips of the Wheat ears are rounded not pointed"
The wheat ears are rounded because they have been whispering in the breeze.
They only did that on the limited edition improved special strikes.
@m4832
Your right about the mint mark location being "Close" to #4, but if you compare them more closely you'll see that the right side of the mint mark of the genuine one strikes a closer cent line of the zero above it, the counterfeit's to much centered below the zero.
Do you see the rounded Wheat ear tips on the counterfeit vs the pointed on the Genuine one?
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
That makes it all wrong
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
NO. It means your not a Vulcan.
Pete
OK. Seriously now.
The mintmark position looks to be the same as the one in the 1909-S V.D.B PCGS die #5? Part 1 thread.
Pete
Okay, I found what I would call a pretty nice Genuine RAW woody (wood grain) 09SVDB.
The seller has good pictures!
Its got what I would call a very nice strike for the designers initials.
And this coin isn't a suggested coin to buy, this is only a sample for us to use as a learning tool!
The advise giving above to look for one of these graded from a well established coin dealer is SOUND advise!
So, for everyone here lets say I just bought this coin, did I get a keeper?
EDITED! Link removed.
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
Smack dab under the 0.
Pete
@BuffaloIronTail This ain't the stamp forum..... I need my glasses.
You’ll need a new thread for the new counterfeit
Sorry. If I blow them up, they'll get even more fuzzy than now.
It's really where the mintmark is. Both are right under the zero in the date.
Pete
@BuffaloIronTail Sorry, just ignore me.... my inner child is acting up tonight.
No offense taken. Sometimes I would like to ignore myself.
Pete
Well, Pete --------------------------------------------------------
EDIT!!
Pete you're correct in your assessment, the far right alignment looks to the same even though the coin in the OP is a total counterfeit.
But, even if we took in an added die # (5 or 6) the height wouldn't be correct, but the picture of the obverse of the coin in the OP is awful, that's why I mainly made my conclusion based on the reverse.
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
Come'on I didn't do that bad did I? It wasn't like I picked out a hard one.
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
"Huston We Have A Problem"
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
Oh well.................................
Forget it. I guess I'm the problem.
Pete
@m4832
Just encase you may not know, but some of last few post is some of that side humor.
I didn't want you to get confuse about any of the specific details of Genuine.
So, keep following along, and if you ask anyone in this thread a question we'll give you a straight up as honest of a reply as we can.
I also sent you a personal message (PM) with that screenshot of the mint mark locations.
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
Pete, your not a problem! your post was misinterpreted 'Really'!
We had flash backs to an earlier thread.
Sorry!
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
Great discussions with no Harshe nonsense - very enjoyable!!!!!!!!!
"When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"
The OP coin, which most certainly is a die struck counterfeit, has a giant, laughable 'S'. The comparison of this piece to my controversial SVDB (subject of another thread) is to make a strawman argument. Logical fallacy. No valid comparison of my piece to the OP piece, subject of this thread, can be made. To do so is an excercise in absurdity.
My advice is to find a dealer you know and trust. And do buy certified with a date like 1909-S V.D.B. Something to be aware of too is that counterfeit holders are out there. The OP is well-versed in this area. If you want to learn more of what the OP here has to offer in the way of how to spot a counterfeit holder check out the thread here in this forum, "Victor David Brenner & His Lincoln Cent" by Joshua McMorrow-Hernandez April 22,2020. And too, there you will see some astonishing images of rare, delightful Brenner art pieces that forum members have posted.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein