1747 Mexico 8 Reales with Many Chopmarks... is it Authentic?

airplanenut

This coin came across my desk and I'm trying to determine whether or not it's authentic. I have a few initial observations:
-The details seem a bit mushy to me, but the coin is also polished, and sometimes that flattens the top of the devices a bit.
-The coin weighs 26.6g, which is a bit underweight, but not a huge amount. Can a coin lose almost 0.5g between some circulation and the tolerances of the 1700s?

I spoke with the owner of the coin, and he gave me a bit more information than I had when I first saw the coin, namely that NGC returned it as "not suitable for certification," which is definitely different than outright declaring the coin not genuine or otherwise questionable authenticity. He speculated that they may have questioned the validity of some of the chops (perhaps the yin-yang? is a previously unknown chop anything other than a counterstamp/damage?). Seeing that NGC considers chops damage (they get details grades), could there be an issue with the coin being chopped and polished?

Anyway, the coin is a bit of a mystery, especially with what NGC said. I'm wondering if anyone here has any insight that may make a case for the coin being authentic (or not), or who may have had a similar experience with NGC and may know what in particular they flagged.

TheGoonies1985

I am no expert by any means but the color within the chopmarks look strange not like the rest of the coin. So do the letter ''o's'' over the ''m's''. But hey I am just guessing someone here knows better lets see what they say.

TheGoonies1985

Never seen a Ying Yang chopmark could that be a pointer towards modern added fake chop? Again I have not seen enough chopmark coins to say they do not exist.

Contact Colin the editor at the Chopmark Society he should know.

thefinn

@KingOfMorganDollar said:
Never seen a Ying Yang chopmark could that be a pointer towards modern added fake chop? Again I have not seen enough chopmark coins to say they do not exist.

Contact Colin the editor at the Chopmark Society he should know.

Do you mean Yin Yang or these two hip hop singers?

airplanenut

@KingOfMorganDollar said:
I am no expert by any means but the color within the chopmarks look strange not like the rest of the coin.

If the coin were dark before being cleaned, I think it’s pretty plausible that the chops remain dark when the rest of the coin was cleaned, similar to the dark areas around the devices.

jgenn

That host coin is an obvious fake.

TwoKopeiki

@jgenn said:
That host coin is an obvious fake.

TheGoonies1985

I think you got your answer we are all saying fake.

airplanenut

I appreciate the replies. I’m still confused over NGC’s determination… or lack thereof.

TheGoonies1985

@airplanenut said:
I appreciate the replies. I’m still confused over NGC’s determination… or lack thereof.

I would not buy it and am sure many here would not either. I am a rookie they are not. Grading companies are not perfect they have many types of fakes to deal with some not so good and some that can pass very much as real.

291fifth

I'm not an expert in those at all but, if offered to me, I would turn it down immediately. It screams fake even if it isn't (and I don't know if it is or not).

coinkat

Did the owner advise you when the coin was submitted to NGC? I think that might help mainly because they (NGC) could have looked at the chop marks and concluded at that point it was not suitable for grading without completing an evaluation as to authenticity. I would avoid this one.

airplanenut

@coinkat said:
Did the owner advise you when the coin was submitted to NGC? I think that might help mainly because they (NGC) could have looked at the chop marks and concluded at that point it was not suitable for grading without completing an evaluation as to authenticity. I would avoid this one.

I don't know for sure, but knowing that other coins sent with it just came back from NGC, I'd assume it was a recent submission.

coinkat

If the current NGC policy is to authenticate chop marked 8R coins and holder them as authentic--without a grade opinion or a details grade at best-- Seems that there was a rejection which implies there is an issue with authenticity... including some of the chops.