The Very Reason To The Why The 09SVDB Is So Popular After All These Years!
I found this article very interesting, that people formed lines waiting for this anticipated coin!
This From The Internet! (I'll post the link to the source at the bottom)
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August 2, 1909: First Lincoln Cent Minting, Hoarding, Initials Controversy
The U.S. Mint officially released the first Lincoln cent to the public on August 2, 1909. The Philadelphia Mint was the first to strike the design. It minted 20,000,000 Lincoln pennies even before the design was officially finalized.
The San Francisco Mint prepared dies to begin minting the coin that same day. Coins minted in Philadelphia have no mintmark. But, coins minted in San Francisco bear an “S” mintmark.
Americans anticipated the release of the Lincoln cent eagerly. They formed lines outside Treasury offices across the nation. Those first in line were able to get as many pennies as they wanted.
But, soon, the Treasury officers realized they had to ration the coins. Different states imposed different limits. Americans were limited to as many as one hundred pennies to as few as two.
Outside the Philadelphia Mint, people created a secondary market. Some purchased Lincoln pennies for as much as a quarter. But, eventually, the price settled.
Still, hoarding continued to be a problem in the first week of the 1909 VDB Lincoln penny release. And, in that week, controversy arose.
VDB Controversy
In his design for the reverse side of the coin, Brenner added his initials: VDB. The initials “VDB” were prominent enough to be noticeable. Most Americans didn’t know what the letters stood for, or whose initials they were.
People complained about the initials distracting from the profile of Lincoln. After all, the Lincoln portrait is what all the anticipation was over. The “VDB” initials seemed to distract from the true beauty of a Lincoln coin.
At least one daily newspaper, The Washington Star, published the complaints. One reporter interviewed anonymous Treasury staff on the matter.
In the report, one staff member speculated that the “VDB” stamp might invalidate the coin. Some collectors viewed Brenner’s initials as “advertising.” Other editorials criticizing the initials followed.
Regardless of its legality, many Americans agreed the initials were an unsightly element of the design.
The controversy continued to mount until August 5. On that day, Treasury Secretary Franklin MacVeagh ordered all Mints to halt the production of the coin. MacVeagh aimed to redesign the Lincoln cent quickly with smaller initials.
August 12, 1909: Objections and Redesign Cause Delays
MacVeagh halted minting on August 5, 1909. Initially, his idea was to alter the strike so the pennies would only include the letter “B.” He viewed this as a compromise that would still respect (and credit) Brenner.
But Barber, the Chief Engraver, objected to the modification. Barber argued people might mistake the “B” for his own initial. He fundamentally disliked Brenner’s design, so he didn’t want to be attached to it.
And, replacing the “VDB” with a single “B” would be a lot of work. It ended up being easier to remove the “VDB” with no replacement.
The Department Solicitor of the Treasury, Maurice O’Connell, ruled that removing the initials didn’t violate the 1890 law limiting redesigns. So, the Treasury and U.S. Mint moved forward with the plan to remove “VDB.”
Brenner objected. He argued that he deserved on-coin credit for his Lincoln profile. But, the officials overruled his complaints.
Thick Coin Conundrum
It took about a week to create new dies and casts without the initials. In that time, people grew impatient for the Lincoln cent. And, in the interim, vending machine designers started complaining.
The new Lincoln cent was too thick to fit in many machine slots. Leach tried to intervene, ordering yet another design change for the penny. This time, though, Barber refused.
Barber did not alter the design further to make the penny thinner. Instead, he spoke with vending and slot machine manufacturers. After their conversations, manufacturers agreed to make bigger slots, to accommodate thicker coins.
This was wise on Barber’s part. Previous cent coins, like the Flying Eagle cent, were too thin and broke easily. Barber successfully avoided repeating that mistake with the Lincoln penny.
Finally, the U.S. Mint resumed production and release of Lincoln cents on August 12, 1909.
1909-S VDB: Limited Circulation Raises Value
The 1909 VDB wheat penny was only minted for about three days. And, only two Mints struck the cent: Philadelphia and San Francisco. The Denver Mint never struck the VDB penny, as it only began minting Lincoln cents in 1911.
The Philadelphia Mint released over 20 million VDB pennies. Americans were so excited about the pennies, they hoarded them as Lincoln-centennial souvenirs. As a result, there are fewer VDB pennies in circulation than one might expect.
VDB Lincoln cents minted in San Francisco are even rarer than their Philadelphia cousins. The San Francisco Mint only got to create 484,000 Lincoln pennies with the original die. Then, MacVeagh halted production.
As a result, these pennies are rarer—and more valuable—on the market today. The pennies minted in San Francisco bear the “S” mintmark. Thus, the most coveted Lincoln cents from that year are are 1909-S VDB pennies.
Some GREAT coins so far. Interesting thread. And educational.
I picked this up raw four or five years ago for my Dansco album. I thought it looked at least AU, and so did a few others that examined it- including Charmy when I met her at the PNNA show a few years back and she was kind enough to share her astute thoughts.
I sent it in to our hosts and it came back as a 40! I was shocked, but haven’t cracked it for some reason.
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
Please excuse my terrible pics of this one, it's time to get new photos done. PCGS 45: This kinda looks like it's under water, and I think I'm still under water financially on this one, bought in "06. Looks nicer in hand
@jedm said:
Please excuse my terrible pics of this one, it's time to get new photos done. PCGS 45: This kinda looks like it's under water, and I think I'm still under water financially on this one, bought in "06. Looks nicer in hand
Without professional equipment to photo coins especially slabbed ones, I found that natural daylight works best, but not direct sunlight that will glare. Overcast days and medium gray background does pretty good.
Open window daylight does good.
I feel your pain on the expense of the coin.
When I set my sights on getting one of these I didn't want to use household money to buy it. So, I started collected aluminum cans and copper, I saved pocket change, I was out of work due a job site closure of 35 years. So, a year of this and I was ready to take the plunge, I had been watching ebay listings, and other sources,
found a really nice looking one, made a deal, $500.00 finely I had that childhood bucket list coin. Then a chain of events happened, (short version) I ended up on this forum looking for information about what turned out to be fake silver dollars!, WoW! So, I posted some pictures my SVDB, BAM! it was COUNTERFEIT! at that time I was just heartbroken, it was a one time shot at that bucket list coin, and I blew it.
I totally gave up on my Lincoln cent collection, I lost all inspiration, I couldn't do another year of what I did to get another one.
I left the forum for a good while, I mean what was the use?
Several months went by and that bucket list coin itch started back up, finances changed, I started watching ebay looking for FAKE 09SVDB's I knew I could spot the counterfeit siblings of mine, so I'll say nearly a year went by and back on the forum, with new found information and looking at thousands of 09SVB's images (just that one coin) I decided I was ready to make another plunge and buy another one!
In conclusion, what happened to that counterfeit? The deal wasn't made through ebay, but it was a LONG distance transaction. I contacted the seller, I told him the coin was fake, bla...bla...... I cut the coin totally in halve and mailed it back to him. Several months later I received a check for $200.00 and a promise for $200.00 more by this past March, didn't happen, I got $200.00 of my $500.00 back. To clear this debt and free up the seller, I sent him an email telling him that he took a loss when he bought it, I took a loss when I bought it, and I'd split the loss with him and called it even! He contacted me back seying that wasn't good enough, he wanted to pay this debt to me and make it right!!! That was the last time I ever heard from him, and thus far I've not received anymore money.
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
..." Several months later I received a check for $200.00 and a promise for $200.00 more by this past March, didn't happen, I got $200.00 of my $500.00 back. To clear this debt and free up the seller, I sent him an email telling him that he took a loss when he bought it, I took a loss when I bought it, and I'd split the loss with him and called it even! He contacted me back saying that wasn't good enough, he wanted to pay this debt to me and make it right!!! That was the last time I ever heard from him, and thus far I've not received anymore money."
Thanks for the tips on photography.
I am good at holding my breath and don't really care about being "underwater" a bit. It's all part of the fun for me.
In regards to your tuition you paid with the seller of the fake- I'm amazed you got anything at all, and I'm sure you learned a valuable lesson about what people say and what they actually do can sometimes be totally not congruent.
Comments
mr1874
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Well, over the Christmas weekend I had several distractions that took to much of my attention!
Nice Thread You Have Going
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
@Oney Very nice!
Thanks for sharing!
Nice 1909-S V.D.B. examples all around. I purchased mine in 2017. It was my first coin purchase since returning to coin collecting.
Donato
Donato's Complete US Type Set ---- Donato's Dansco 7070 Modified Type Set ---- Donato's Basic U.S. Coin Design Set
Successful transactions: Shrub68 (Jim), MWallace (Mike)
@divecchia That's a winner!
Thanks for taking the time to post it.
The Very Reason To The Why The 09SVDB Is So Popular After All These Years!
I found this article very interesting, that people formed lines waiting for this anticipated coin!
This From The Internet! (I'll post the link to the source at the bottom)
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
August 2, 1909: First Lincoln Cent Minting, Hoarding, Initials Controversy
The U.S. Mint officially released the first Lincoln cent to the public on August 2, 1909. The Philadelphia Mint was the first to strike the design. It minted 20,000,000 Lincoln pennies even before the design was officially finalized.
The San Francisco Mint prepared dies to begin minting the coin that same day. Coins minted in Philadelphia have no mintmark. But, coins minted in San Francisco bear an “S” mintmark.
Americans anticipated the release of the Lincoln cent eagerly. They formed lines outside Treasury offices across the nation. Those first in line were able to get as many pennies as they wanted.
But, soon, the Treasury officers realized they had to ration the coins. Different states imposed different limits. Americans were limited to as many as one hundred pennies to as few as two.
Outside the Philadelphia Mint, people created a secondary market. Some purchased Lincoln pennies for as much as a quarter. But, eventually, the price settled.
Still, hoarding continued to be a problem in the first week of the 1909 VDB Lincoln penny release. And, in that week, controversy arose.
VDB Controversy
In his design for the reverse side of the coin, Brenner added his initials: VDB. The initials “VDB” were prominent enough to be noticeable. Most Americans didn’t know what the letters stood for, or whose initials they were.
People complained about the initials distracting from the profile of Lincoln. After all, the Lincoln portrait is what all the anticipation was over. The “VDB” initials seemed to distract from the true beauty of a Lincoln coin.
At least one daily newspaper, The Washington Star, published the complaints. One reporter interviewed anonymous Treasury staff on the matter.
In the report, one staff member speculated that the “VDB” stamp might invalidate the coin. Some collectors viewed Brenner’s initials as “advertising.” Other editorials criticizing the initials followed.
Regardless of its legality, many Americans agreed the initials were an unsightly element of the design.
The controversy continued to mount until August 5. On that day, Treasury Secretary Franklin MacVeagh ordered all Mints to halt the production of the coin. MacVeagh aimed to redesign the Lincoln cent quickly with smaller initials.
August 12, 1909: Objections and Redesign Cause Delays
MacVeagh halted minting on August 5, 1909. Initially, his idea was to alter the strike so the pennies would only include the letter “B.” He viewed this as a compromise that would still respect (and credit) Brenner.
But Barber, the Chief Engraver, objected to the modification. Barber argued people might mistake the “B” for his own initial. He fundamentally disliked Brenner’s design, so he didn’t want to be attached to it.
And, replacing the “VDB” with a single “B” would be a lot of work. It ended up being easier to remove the “VDB” with no replacement.
The Department Solicitor of the Treasury, Maurice O’Connell, ruled that removing the initials didn’t violate the 1890 law limiting redesigns. So, the Treasury and U.S. Mint moved forward with the plan to remove “VDB.”
Brenner objected. He argued that he deserved on-coin credit for his Lincoln profile. But, the officials overruled his complaints.
Thick Coin Conundrum
It took about a week to create new dies and casts without the initials. In that time, people grew impatient for the Lincoln cent. And, in the interim, vending machine designers started complaining.
The new Lincoln cent was too thick to fit in many machine slots. Leach tried to intervene, ordering yet another design change for the penny. This time, though, Barber refused.
Barber did not alter the design further to make the penny thinner. Instead, he spoke with vending and slot machine manufacturers. After their conversations, manufacturers agreed to make bigger slots, to accommodate thicker coins.
This was wise on Barber’s part. Previous cent coins, like the Flying Eagle cent, were too thin and broke easily. Barber successfully avoided repeating that mistake with the Lincoln penny.
Finally, the U.S. Mint resumed production and release of Lincoln cents on August 12, 1909.
1909-S VDB: Limited Circulation Raises Value
The 1909 VDB wheat penny was only minted for about three days. And, only two Mints struck the cent: Philadelphia and San Francisco. The Denver Mint never struck the VDB penny, as it only began minting Lincoln cents in 1911.
The Philadelphia Mint released over 20 million VDB pennies. Americans were so excited about the pennies, they hoarded them as Lincoln-centennial souvenirs. As a result, there are fewer VDB pennies in circulation than one might expect.
VDB Lincoln cents minted in San Francisco are even rarer than their Philadelphia cousins. The San Francisco Mint only got to create 484,000 Lincoln pennies with the original die. Then, MacVeagh halted production.
As a result, these pennies are rarer—and more valuable—on the market today. The pennies minted in San Francisco bear the “S” mintmark. Thus, the most coveted Lincoln cents from that year are are 1909-S VDB pennies.
Today, 1909-S VDB pennies are some of the most valuable non-error coins on the market.
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Source Link!
https://moneyforgold.com/the-1909-vdb-penny-the-worlds-most-controversial-cent-bullion-shark/
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
Some GREAT coins so far. Interesting thread. And educational.
I picked this up raw four or five years ago for my Dansco album. I thought it looked at least AU, and so did a few others that examined it- including Charmy when I met her at the PNNA show a few years back and she was kind enough to share her astute thoughts.
I sent it in to our hosts and it came back as a 40! I was shocked, but haven’t cracked it for some reason.
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
@nwcoast Nice coin & thanks for sharing!
Looks better than a 40 to me.
Please excuse my terrible pics of this one, it's time to get new photos done. PCGS 45: This kinda looks like it's under water, and I think I'm still under water financially on this one, bought in "06. Looks nicer in hand
@jedm Thanks for posting, it looks like a real nice 45.
The nice touch of woodgrain gives it a little extra charm.
Without professional equipment to photo coins especially slabbed ones, I found that natural daylight works best, but not direct sunlight that will glare. Overcast days and medium gray background does pretty good.
Open window daylight does good.
I feel your pain on the expense of the coin.
When I set my sights on getting one of these I didn't want to use household money to buy it. So, I started collected aluminum cans and copper, I saved pocket change, I was out of work due a job site closure of 35 years. So, a year of this and I was ready to take the plunge, I had been watching ebay listings, and other sources,
found a really nice looking one, made a deal, $500.00 finely I had that childhood bucket list coin. Then a chain of events happened, (short version) I ended up on this forum looking for information about what turned out to be fake silver dollars!, WoW! So, I posted some pictures my SVDB, BAM! it was COUNTERFEIT! at that time I was just heartbroken, it was a one time shot at that bucket list coin, and I blew it.
I totally gave up on my Lincoln cent collection, I lost all inspiration, I couldn't do another year of what I did to get another one.
I left the forum for a good while, I mean what was the use?
Several months went by and that bucket list coin itch started back up, finances changed, I started watching ebay looking for FAKE 09SVDB's I knew I could spot the counterfeit siblings of mine, so I'll say nearly a year went by and back on the forum, with new found information and looking at thousands of 09SVB's images (just that one coin) I decided I was ready to make another plunge and buy another one!
In conclusion, what happened to that counterfeit? The deal wasn't made through ebay, but it was a LONG distance transaction. I contacted the seller, I told him the coin was fake, bla...bla...... I cut the coin totally in halve and mailed it back to him. Several months later I received a check for $200.00 and a promise for $200.00 more by this past March, didn't happen, I got $200.00 of my $500.00 back. To clear this debt and free up the seller, I sent him an email telling him that he took a loss when he bought it, I took a loss when I bought it, and I'd split the loss with him and called it even! He contacted me back seying that wasn't good enough, he wanted to pay this debt to me and make it right!!! That was the last time I ever heard from him, and thus far I've not received anymore money.
"I Prefer Dangerous Freedom Over Peaceful Slavery"
Thomas Jefferson!
..." Several months later I received a check for $200.00 and a promise for $200.00 more by this past March, didn't happen, I got $200.00 of my $500.00 back. To clear this debt and free up the seller, I sent him an email telling him that he took a loss when he bought it, I took a loss when I bought it, and I'd split the loss with him and called it even! He contacted me back saying that wasn't good enough, he wanted to pay this debt to me and make it right!!! That was the last time I ever heard from him, and thus far I've not received anymore money."
Not so great quality older pics from the archive
Edited to correct the orientation of picture
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/quarters/PCGS-2020-quarter-quest/album/247091
@vulcanize That fills the hole very nicely!
Thanks for sharing!
67RB. Pop 1/0.
@Ronyahski Dang! A 67 with some nice rainbow toning!
A winner for sure, thanks for sharing!
MS-65 BN
@WildIdea A nice silky smooth brown, very nice!
Thanks for sharing!