Lincoln 09S question.

jesbroken

I have seen 5 1909 S Lincoln Cents with a tilted S Mint mark today, yet all of the mintmarks in the now famous 4 mintmark chart, show no tilted mintmarks. So, at a glance, if an 09S mintmark is tilted to the right it is a counterfeit. Is that a fair statement?
Jim

jmlanzaf

Probably

MsMorrisine

Dies are used and retired

The question is about a plain 09 S

Do we know those 4 SVDB obverse dies were solely used for the plain 09S?

jesbroken

I don't know, that's why I'm asking. Since the chart came out I thought that they were the same, but now not sure. We constantly provife samples of currently selling counterfeit 09SVDB lincolns, but not the 09S plain. Just curious.
Jim

mr1931S

Not a fair statement. High left 'S' on 1909-S AND 1909-S V.D.B. has a great deal of tilt to the right (Harsche die #1). Medium high right (1909-S only) has tilt to the right (Harsche die #4). Far low, far right (Harsche die #6) has tilt to the right. Die #6 was also used for 1909-S V.D.B. To summarize, 3 of the 6 known die positions of 'S' for 1909-S cents have definite, easy to see, 'S' tilt to the right.

MsMorrisine

I was looking for it and could not find it. Somewhere on here is a Burdette photo of a Mint document showing the number of obverse and reverse dies for the Early Lincoln years.

I am guessing he and it contain that answer.

Perhaps you might find some tilted S photos in CoinFacts.

mr1931S

There are photos of 1909-S Lincolns in Detecting Altered Coins by Bert Harsche. Harsche does not identify some 1909-S V.D.B.'s as coming from the die he numbers #6 (far low, far right) but they definitely exist. My 1909-S without V.D.B. is from die #6 as is my 1909-S with V.D.B. The 'S' tilts right on both pieces.

jesbroken

Thanks for your help.
Jim

BuffaloIronTail

@MsMorrisine said:
Dies are used and retired

The question is about a plain 09 S

Do we know those 4 SVDB obverse dies were solely used for the plain 09S?

Only one. This one:

Pete

Type2

How about the weaker 09-S VDB what mint mark does that have?

jesbroken

@BuffaloIronTail said:

@MsMorrisine said:
Dies are used and retired

The question is about a plain 09 S

Do we know those 4 SVDB obverse dies were solely used for the plain 09S?

Only one. This one:

Pete

So Pete, this is the only non VDB 09S die used?
Thanks for your help.
Jim

BuffaloIronTail

Yep Jim. There are no reports of any other.

Die#1 must have been in the press when they stopped it to replace the reverse non-VDB die, at least that's the way I see it.

Pete

mr1931S

I have a 1909-S without V.D.B. that is far low, far right AND a 1909-S V.D.B. that is from the same die as my 1909-S. Harsche identified six dies used to make 1909-S cents either without V.D.B. on the reverse or with V.D.B. on the reverse. I'm getting that three of the six obverse dies used were for both V.D.B. on the reverse and no V.D.B. on the reverse. See Detecting Altered Coins by Bert Harsche. Harsche devotes five pages of his forty-eight page pamphlet to discussion and images of 1909-S and 1909-S V.D.B. cents. The 1909-S in the image posted does not match any of the six obverse dies identified by Harsche.What is the source for the image posted that is being called from "Position #1"?