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Are $10,000 bills still legal tender?

Hypothetically speaking:
If someone took this into the bank to deposit would the bank credit $10,000 to their account?

I know it’s probably worth more as a collectible piece of numismatic history but I am just curious how the government views these huge denomination bills?

Comments

  • MKUltra24MKUltra24 Posts: 652 ✭✭✭✭

    @Steve_in_Tampa said:
    Absolutely.
    “Probably worth more as a collectible piece of numismatic history” is the understatement of the decade. This is a six-figure note.

    Thanks!

    Ah yeah I wasn’t sure of exact value but I assumed if it was legal tender it would be valued above face.

    Apparently it’s worth FAR above face value.

  • thefinnthefinn Posts: 2,652 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You would have to find someone at the bank that knew what it was.
    I was in Mexico with my sister and she tried to exchange a $100 bill for pesos. Since it was a 1934 with lighter green back and missing "In God We Trust" they thought it was a counterfeit and wouldn't take it.
    Every piece of currency printed by the U.S. or Federal Reserve (not the same thing) is legal tender. This is the only country in the world where that is true.

    thefinn
  • Serial_no_8Serial_no_8 Posts: 415 ✭✭✭

    Ah yeah I wasn’t sure of exact value but I assumed if it was legal tender it would be valued above face.

    Just FYI, "legal tender" has absolutely nothing to do with the value of the note being above FV. It's more about the collector value for something so seldom seen in such nice condition. That is why @Steve_in_Tampa comments its a "six-figure" note.

    Most central banks will accept the majority of denominations no matter what the status is but it helps if you bank at that branch. "Legal tender" simply means that a a business ought to accept the note in question (but they don't have to). It's up to their discretion. Banks have that option too (to accept or not to). If retailers think your cash is phoney they won't accept it & they can insist on electronic payment, if they so choose. Just try buying a new car with cash. Legal tender doesn't mean that they must accept your notes.

    The reason I write this is b/c I've seen countless posts about the Bank of Canada removing legal tender status on $1, $2 & $1000 notes (which they did last year). However, these notes can still be deposited in most chartered banks which will send them back to the central bank (BoC) for reimbursement (out of courtesy). To this day, many unaware individuals are depositing older $1, $2 & $1000 notes which may be collectible. Unfortunately, most are too circulated to be collectible.

  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 27,330 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 17, 2021 9:31AM

    they are pretty notes to look at

  • MKUltra24MKUltra24 Posts: 652 ✭✭✭✭

    @Serial_no_8 said:

    Ah yeah I wasn’t sure of exact value but I assumed if it was legal tender it would be valued above face.

    Just FYI, "legal tender" has absolutely nothing to do with the value of the note being above FV. It's more about the collector value for something so seldom seen in such nice condition. That is why @Steve_in_Tampa comments its a "six-figure" note.

    Most central banks will accept the majority of denominations no matter what the status is but it helps if you bank at that branch. "Legal tender" simply means that a a business ought to accept the note in question (but they don't have to). It's up to their discretion. Banks have that option too (to accept or not to). If retailers think your cash is phoney they won't accept it & they can insist on electronic payment, if they so choose. Just try buying a new car with cash. Legal tender doesn't mean that they must accept your notes.

    The reason I write this is b/c I've seen countless posts about the Bank of Canada removing legal tender status on $1, $2 & $1000 notes (which they did last year). However, these notes can still be deposited in most chartered banks which will send them back to the central bank (BoC) for reimbursement (out of courtesy). To this day, many unaware individuals are depositing older $1, $2 & $1000 notes which may be collectible. Unfortunately, most are too circulated to be collectible.

    If I recall correctly “legal tender” must be accepted as settlement for any debt but not if no debt exists.

    For example if you go to Taco Bell, pull up to the drive through an order, then go to pay they can refuse to accept whatever they want because no debt exists.

    That’s why ALOT of places can legally refuse to accept $100 bills even though they are legal tender.

    But if you go to a restaurant, order your food and then eat it a debt exists because the food has been consumed. In that case if you offer to pay with legal tender of any denomination they must accept it for settlement of that debt.

  • sellitstoresellitstore Posts: 2,368 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 15, 2021 5:46PM

    Don't forget the $10,000 Gold certificates from the 1935 post office fire. I don't think that they are legal tender. And I think that the $100,000 FRN (Wilson) notes are in the same category. Neither was ever for use by private citizens or the private sector, but only for transactions between banks.

    Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.
  • I have only ever seen 10,000 bills in god grade come to the market.
    This thread leads me to wonder what a 10,000 in grade Poor to Vg (let's say a 12) by might fetch in an auction such as Heritage. A super rarity in terrible grade.

    On Legal Tender, we have this: https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/knowledgebank/what-is-legal-tender

    On the redemption of old notes, the Bank of England will pay face value for any note issued by it without time limit.
    This is also the case for the Central Bank of Ireland which will redeem any note issued by it as well as any note issued by any of the associated Irish joint stock banks since 1783.
    I believe that he Scottish and Northern Ireland banks also redeem without time limit.

    Some other Issuing Authorities may also redeem their legacy currency issues without time limit.

  • berylberyl Posts: 129 ✭✭✭

    The 1935 Post Office notes were all cancelled notes so they would no longer be legal tender. They are also stolen property and are technically illegal to own.

    As for the $100,000 bank transfer notes - I think that if you had one it also would also be considered stolen property.

    Of course the beautiful $10,000 note above is legal tender and legal to have. I wonder though if you bought it (I never could! ) - whether you would have to report your purchase to the Feds, since it technically would be a transfer of ten thousand dollars in "cash." ... probably you'd only get in trouble for not reporting if the government didn't like something else they thought you were doing, didn't have the evidence to make a case against you for whatever nefarious actions they suspected you of, and decided to convict you on a ridiculous technicality.

  • charlesf20charlesf20 Posts: 384 ✭✭✭

    Whose that crazy guy in the middle of this bill?

  • President Lincoln's Secretary of the Treasury, Salmon P. Chase

  • Steve_in_TampaSteve_in_Tampa Posts: 1,791 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Seldon said:
    President Lincoln's Secretary of the Treasury, Salmon P. Chase

    Indeed !

  • YQQYQQ Posts: 3,258 ✭✭✭✭✭

    "But if you go to a restaurant, order your food and then eat it a debt exists because the food has been consumed. In that case if you offer to pay with legal tender of any denomination they must accept it for settlement of that debt."

    that is not exactly so in Canada. Even if the money tendered is legal tender, a merchant can refuse to accept payment in larger legal currency denominations and can insist on exact payment. And again this is limited to a maximum of any denomination a merchant can accept. example, a maximum of 25 quarters etc, etc.
    The dept can continue to exist.... but such an issue is seldom...

    Today is the first day of the rest of my life
  • MKUltra24MKUltra24 Posts: 652 ✭✭✭✭

    @YQQ said:
    "But if you go to a restaurant, order your food and then eat it a debt exists because the food has been consumed. In that case if you offer to pay with legal tender of any denomination they must accept it for settlement of that debt."

    that is not exactly so in Canada. Even if the money tendered is legal tender, a merchant can refuse to accept payment in larger legal currency denominations and can insist on exact payment. And again this is limited to a maximum of any denomination a merchant can accept. example, a maximum of 25 quarters etc, etc.
    The dept can continue to exist.... but such an issue is seldom...

    It's interesting how its different in every country.

    You mention "a merchant can refuse to accept payment in larger legal currency denominations and can insist on exact payment".

    What about lower denomination coinage?

    What do you think would happen if someone tried to buy something expensive with a butt load of $0.05 CAD nickels?

    Say a purchase of $5,000 CAD using $0.05 CAD nickels would be 100,000 nickels!

    But they are indeed 100% legal tender.

  • MKUltra24MKUltra24 Posts: 652 ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 31, 2021 7:58PM

    @Seldon said:
    I have only ever seen 10,000 bills in god grade come to the market.
    This thread leads me to wonder what a 10,000 in grade Poor to Vg (let's say a 12) by might fetch in an auction such as Heritage. A super rarity in terrible grade.

    On Legal Tender, we have this: https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/knowledgebank/what-is-legal-tender

    On the redemption of old notes, the Bank of England will pay face value for any note issued by it without time limit.
    This is also the case for the Central Bank of Ireland which will redeem any note issued by it as well as any note issued by any of the associated Irish joint stock banks since 1783.
    I believe that he Scottish and Northern Ireland banks also redeem without time limit.

    Some other Issuing Authorities may also redeem their legacy currency issues without time limit.

    I read something interesting about Scotland banknotes.

    Apparently the UK Royal Mint is the only mint that can print British banknotes and coinage BUT the Bank of Scotland can issue Scottish banknotes with the requirement that all of those notes are backed by Bank of England notes.

    Apparently the Scottish Bank mints a £100 banknote that is sometimes accepted within England but often is not accepted outside Scotland despite being redeemable for Bank of England notes.

  • Scottish and Northern Ireland notes are not Legal Tender anywhere. The only Legal Tender in Scotland and Northern Ireland is coin minted at the Royal Mint. Bank of England notes are Legal Tender only in England and Wales, as well as coin.

    The three remaining Scottish Banks of note issue, Bank of Scotland, Royal Bank of Scotland and Clydesdale Bank; and three remaining issuing banks in Northern Ireland all issue notes up to a limit for each bank. These notes must be backed by deposits in the Bank of England.

    Scottish notes are accepted in Northern Ireland, though I have found difficulty in spending Northern Irish notes in Scotland. The Post Office throughout the UK will accept notes of any of the UK issuing banks, and any bank will accept them as lodgements also.

    In England, I have found that Scottish notes will generally be accepted as far south as Liverpool, especially in motorway service areas and larger shops. Northern Irish notes are generally not accepted in England.

  • charlesf20charlesf20 Posts: 384 ✭✭✭

    @Seldon said:
    President Lincoln's Secretary of the Treasury, Salmon P. Chase

    @Steve_in_Tampa said:

    @Seldon said:
    President Lincoln's Secretary of the Treasury, Salmon P. Chase

    Indeed !

    Any relation to Chase Bank?

  • DisneyFanDisneyFan Posts: 1,550 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @charlesf20 said:

    Any relation to Chase Bank?

    Chase National Bank was formed in 1877 by John Thompson. It was named after former United States Treasury Secretary and Chief Justice Salmon P. Chase. Prior to that he was also a Ohio Governor and Senator. Chase himself did not have a connection with the bank. He died on May 7, 1873. No relationship to Salomon Brothers either. : )

  • MKUltra24MKUltra24 Posts: 652 ✭✭✭✭

    @Seldon said:
    Scottish and Northern Ireland notes are not Legal Tender anywhere. The only Legal Tender in Scotland and Northern Ireland is coin minted at the Royal Mint. Bank of England notes are Legal Tender only in England and Wales, as well as coin.

    The three remaining Scottish Banks of note issue, Bank of Scotland, Royal Bank of Scotland and Clydesdale Bank; and three remaining issuing banks in Northern Ireland all issue notes up to a limit for each bank. These notes must be backed by deposits in the Bank of England.

    Scottish notes are accepted in Northern Ireland, though I have found difficulty in spending Northern Irish notes in Scotland. The Post Office throughout the UK will accept notes of any of the UK issuing banks, and any bank will accept them as lodgements also.

    In England, I have found that Scottish notes will generally be accepted as far south as Liverpool, especially in motorway service areas and larger shops. Northern Irish notes are generally not accepted in England.

    But I could’ve sworn that Bank of Scotland has to backup all of its notes with Bank of England British notes.

    I thought they were convertible 1 for 1 because of that?

  • Yes. Bottom of paragraph 2: These notes must be backed by deposits in the Bank of England. You are correct, they must be backed on a 1 to 1 basis.

  • MKUltra24MKUltra24 Posts: 652 ✭✭✭✭

    @Seldon said:
    Yes. Bottom of paragraph 2: These notes must be backed by deposits in the Bank of England. You are correct, they must be backed on a 1 to 1 basis.

    Oops missed that. What about convertibility? If they can be exchanged at the banks at a 1 for 1 exchange rate I don’t understand why they wouldn’t be accepted.

    I imagine the backing by Bank of England notes requirement is to prevent inflating the money supply but it does take some sovereign power away from Scotland.

  • dtreterdtreter Posts: 108 ✭✭✭

    And this is still legal tender and has to be accepted at a post office or bank....but they don;t understand and would refuse...worth much more than face value,

  • tomtomtomtomtomtomtomtom Posts: 534 ✭✭✭✭

    ...as are all fractional currency notes. If anyone has some that they want to redeem, I'll cash them in for you :)...and also any $10K bills :)

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