This is new - War of Independence Guadalajara

TwoKopeiki

While going through the inventory, noticed that PCGS updated the description associated with my 1814 Guadalajara 8 Reales.

I'm pretty excited they noted the "no dot before hispan" variety (interesting way to denote it, too), but was wondering what reference they used. Feels like it could have been Calbeto, since they also counted jewels (in the crown? Hair?), but I'm not recognizing the catalog number.

Anyone recognize the reference? @Abuelo @ELuis ?

ELuis

No expert et-al, I think the number of Jewels might be these:

versus another one that have 5:

ELuis

And let me post some info about the Ga mint, from an Coin Aficionado like me...

The mint "Ga" operated provisionally during the War of Independence

The insecurity that prevailed in the country during the War of Independence of Mexico, forced the royalist authorities to order the opening of some provisional mints near the mining sites to supply the population with currency, among them is precisely that of Guadalajara , "Ga".

The Guadalajara Mint began operations in 1812 and worked uninterruptedly until 1815, when it momentarily closed its doors. In 1818 he minted money again - except in 1819 and 1820 - and he did so until 1822.

“The opening of the Provisional Mint of Guadalajara, whose mint was that of‘ Ga ’, received authorization from the Board of the Royal Treasury on May 20, 1811, but began work until the following year. However, due to the fraud detected in the rehearsal office, that mint was closed on April 30, 1815 by order of Ambrosio Sugarsurrieta, who served as the Royal Treasury Prosecutor. The closure provoked continuous complaints from merchants in the area due to the damages caused by the lack of currency. Consequently, the Guadalajara mint was reopened on August 18, 1817, and it resumed its minting operations until 1818. The minting tasks were suspended again between 1819 and 1820, resumed in 1821 and definitively ceased in 1822 ”. 1

Obverse.-
The toga bust of Ferdinand VII, with the legend "Ferdin VII Dei Gratia" and the year in the exergue.

Back.-
The crowned Coat of Arms of Spain, with the two columns and the legend "Plus Ultra", and in a semicircle "Hispan Et Ind Rex", the mint "Ga" the value "8 R" and the initials of the assayer.

There are varieties in the coins of 1814. Carlos Abel Amaya writes: “The 8 Reales coins were minted from 1812 to 1815, 1818, 1821 and 1822. The first dates can be found minted on other coins… there are many types of busts in the 1814 coins and other differences in the dies also exist; p. ex. In 1814 pieces there are varieties with a wide and narrow crown and in that same year without the period before 'Hispan' and without the period between the initials (MR). Overdates 1813/2, 1821/18, 1821/0 and 1822/1 have been reported ”.

And also a period between 8R:

The provisional 8 Reales coins from Guadalajara were tested by Manuel Rivera "MR" from 1812 to 1815 and Francisco Suárez "FS" from 1818 to 1822.

José Manuel Sobrino provides an important piece of information regarding this mint (Ga): “… it was the only one, among the provisional ones, authorized to mint gold, but it was done at widely separated intervals”. 3

Sources:

1. “La Moneda, Independencia y Revolución”, Banco de México, 2009. Page 90

2. "Numismatic Anthology Mexico 2010", Monterrey, Mexico. P. 19

3. “La Moneda Mexicana, Su Historia”, Banco de México, S.A., 1972. Page 71

HTH

PillarDollarCollector

Collecting world coins is awesome always new things to learn. Congrats!!

TwoKopeiki

Thank you for a nice write-up @ELuis ! Guadalajara provisional will always have a special place in my heart, as that 1814 I posted is what got me interested in Mexico 8 Reales and sparked a life-long pursuit.

Another neat peculiarity to add about this mint is the use of the flower-and-rectangle edge design when they opened in 1812 before switching to the standard circle-and-rectangle in 1813 and onward. A few of the 1813 varieties also display the edge of 1812. I believe I posted about it before on the forums and will search for the post.

TwoKopeiki

Here's an example I posted back in 2011 from an 1813/2:

Another cool practice back then was using cast planchets. You often see early Guadalajara with surfaces that at first make you suspect a counterfeit until you realize it was the planchet as made.

bidask

@TwoKopeiki your a TRUE numismatist !

TwoKopeiki

@bidask said:
@TwoKopeiki your a TRUE numismatist !

I'm in good company, then.

PillarDollarCollector

I believe those here in the world section are all true collectors takes so much time to learn if you don't have the heart you will exit fast enough.

Or course there are the Jedi like you guys then the apprentices like myself willing to put in the time and effort to have a life long hobby.

JohnnyCache

@TwoKopeiki said:
Anyone recognize the reference? @Abuelo @ELuis ?

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Nothing is noted in in either Yriarte's or Elizondo's references.

TwoKopeiki

Thanks @JohnnyCache

I dont think they are referencing Calbeto, although it's good info to have in this thread,

The catalog reference "Ga8.4.6" mentioned on the label is the one that got me stumped.

JohnnyCache

Sorry, I misunderstood.
I'll continue to look and see if I can locate something that leads back to the catalog reference "Ga8.4.6"