1873 Half Dollar / Open 3

Ken1796

Hello, Is this coin the Open 3 Variety? Any assistance is greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Ken

yosclimber

Open 3.
All 1873 arrows halves are Open 3.
The 1873 No Arrows halves have both Closed and Open 3 varieties.

https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/category/half-dollars/liberty-seated-half-dollar/type-5-motto-1866-1891/730

Ken1796

Thank you for the response. Last question: Do you think the Grade can reach F-12?
Once again, thanks for the response.

yosclimber

Your coin is a G-6 - only 2 letters of LIBERTY are visible.
To make VG-8 it needs 3 letters,
and for F-12 if needs all 7 letters.

Since you don't know these grading rules, I recommend you buy a Red Book - it's a great book for basic grading
and shows the types and rarities of different dates for all denominations of US coins.
https://www.amazon.com/Guide-Book-United-States-Coins-dp-0794848907/dp/0794848907

Ken1796

Yes ... I did read that in some grading books but then I seen the below (VG-8):

Barberian

@yosclimber said:
Your coin is a G-6 - only 2 letters of LIBERTY are visible.
To make VG-8 it needs 3 letters,
and for F-12 if needs all 7 letters.

Since you don't know these grading rules, I recommend you buy a Red Book - it's a great book for basic grading
and shows the types and rarities of different dates for all denominations of US coins.
https://www.amazon.com/Guide-Book-United-States-Coins-dp-0794848907/dp/0794848907

The problem with grading SLHs is that these criteria have been relaxed and generally don't apply anymore. I see VG8s with 2 letters, VG10s with 3 letters, F12s with 4-5 letters, and F15 with 5-6 letters. Even VF30 can have only 6 letters showing. For example...here's a PCGS VF30...

I grade Ken1796's 1873 WA coin as a VG8. It's a nice coin, IMO.

Ken1796

Sorry --- Here is the image:

yosclimber

@Barberian said:

@yosclimber said:
Your coin is a G-6 - only 2 letters of LIBERTY are visible.
To make VG-8 it needs 3 letters,
and for F-12 if needs all 7 letters.

Since you don't know these grading rules, I recommend you buy a Red Book - it's a great book for basic grading
and shows the types and rarities of different dates for all denominations of US coins.
https://www.amazon.com/Guide-Book-United-States-Coins-dp-0794848907/dp/0794848907

The problem with grading SLHs is that these criteria have been relaxed and generally don't apply anymore. I see VG8s with 2 letters, VG10s with 3 letters, F12s with 4-5 letters, and F15 with 5-6 letters. Even VF30 can have only 6 letters showing. For example...here's a PCGS VF30...


I grade Ken1796's 1873 WA coin as a VG8. It's a nice coin, IMO.

PCGS may have relaxed the rules, but I still follow the ANA book and the Red Book.
It is good to know about the differing standards, though.

Barberian

@yosclimber said:

@Barberian said:

@yosclimber said:
Your coin is a G-6 - only 2 letters of LIBERTY are visible.
To make VG-8 it needs 3 letters,
and for F-12 if needs all 7 letters.

Since you don't know these grading rules, I recommend you buy a Red Book - it's a great book for basic grading
and shows the types and rarities of different dates for all denominations of US coins.
https://www.amazon.com/Guide-Book-United-States-Coins-dp-0794848907/dp/0794848907

The problem with grading SLHs is that these criteria have been relaxed and generally don't apply anymore. I see VG8s with 2 letters, VG10s with 3 letters, F12s with 4-5 letters, and F15 with 5-6 letters. Even VF30 can have only 6 letters showing. For example...here's a PCGS VF30...


I grade Ken1796's 1873 WA coin as a VG8. It's a nice coin, IMO.

PCGS may have relaxed the rules, but I still follow the ANA book and the Red Book.
It is good to know about the differing standards, though.

I can appreciate the ANA and Red Book standards, however, the choice 1854-O above would only grade VG10 according to those standards.

yosclimber

Yes, coins will be assigned different numeric grades if the grading standards are different.
So it will be helpful to state the standard being used in such cases.

Apologies to @Ken1796 for concluding he was a beginner,
when in fact different grading standards are in play.

P.S. I checked my ANA book and it requires 4 letters for VG-8!
The Red Book is more consistent across denominations with 3 letters (except for the 20c where the letters are raised).

Barberian

@yosclimber said:
Yes, coins will be assigned different numeric grades if the grading standards are different.
So it will be helpful to state the standard being used in such cases.

Apologies to @Ken1796 for concluding he was a beginner,
when in fact different grading standards are in play.

P.S. I checked my ANA book and it requires 4 letters for VG-8!
The Red Book is more consistent across denominations with 3 letters (except for the 20c where the letters are raised).

To me, ANA and Redbook standards emphasizing LIBERTY are too conservative for SLH wear patterns. They certainly don't drive TPG service grading standards or reflect the marketplace. The ANA/Redbook "VG" is wider than Texas and their price guide becomes more unreliable even as a general price guide, while "VF" grades become as narrow as Delaware. The depth of LIBERTY on SLHs varies by date and mint more so than the more uniformly struck LIBERTY on Barber coins. And even Barber halves (e.g., 1909-S) can vary in the depth of LIBERTY.

No point in dragging this out...As one dealer told me after we went a few rounds arguing over seated Liberty half grading, "The only thing we have to agree upon is the price."

yosclimber

Yes, ideally a grading standard would spread the population uniformly across the different grades.

It could have been done by making more subgrades within G and VG.
But that has disadvantages and limitations as well.

Coinosaurus

There is no "closed 3" variety. I believe the guides all call it "close 3."