@ErrorsOnCoins said:
Jon, will you be open to label suggestions as Fred "sometimes" was?
I was able to convince Fred on a few, and a few he labeled a little less than I would have liked.
One big one was when Fred agreed that my Sacagawea was indeed "Struck Thru Twine" and labeled the mint error as such.
So here would be a very similar situation, the coin below was obviously "Struck Thru Twine" and hypothetically if I sent this coin in as a crossover, would I get the "Struck Thru Twine" mint error label the coin deserves? Side note: My guess it will not get the lofty MS67 at PCGS
Hypothetically it could also have been struck through a Earthworm
I doubt having the word Twine on the label makes it any more valuable of a strike through error.
To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
@ErrorsOnCoins said:
Jon, will you be open to label suggestions as Fred "sometimes" was?
I was able to convince Fred on a few, and a few he labeled a little less than I would have liked.
One big one was when Fred agreed that my Sacagawea was indeed "Struck Thru Twine" and labeled the mint error as such.
So here would be a very similar situation, the coin below was obviously "Struck Thru Twine" and hypothetically if I sent this coin in as a crossover, would I get the "Struck Thru Twine" mint error label the coin deserves? Side note: My guess it will not get the lofty MS67 at PCGS
Hypothetically it could also have been struck through a Earthworm
I doubt having the word Twine on the label makes it any more valuable of a strike through error.
It actually does make a big difference to some to have as accurate descriptions as possible and unique struck thrus are super cool IMO.
“It actually does make a big difference to some to have as accurate descriptions as possible and unique struck thrus are super cool IMO.”
I have to agree with Chris (CTF Errors) on this one!
BOTH PCGS and NGC need to do a better job describing struck thru’s.
There!
I said it😳
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
“PCGS has the final "veto power" over any attributions I make.”
ErrorsOnCoins said:
“Sounds like PCGS wants to double check any new attributions to be 100% sure.”
I was spoiled for 20 years. I was able to drive to Fred’s office, do business and while I was there, Fred would write up my walk thru mint error submission ( like when he authenticated my gold 1900 Indian Head Cent). Then I would drive to PCGS and walk it thru. In some cases I would select the 2 day option or 5 day option.
Sounds like ( no fault on Jon’s part ofcourse) that PCGS is not able to handle walk thru and express mint error submission invoices anymore unless they are at a coin show to receive them. Otherwise obviously there are delays now, using Jon in Florida. It would still be nice to have the option to send some to PCGS, if they can figure this out.
mikebyers.com Dealer in Major Mint Errors, Die Trials & Patterns - Author of NLG Best World Coin Book World's Greatest Mint Errors - Publisher & Editor of minterrornews.com.
@ErrorsOnCoins said:
Jon, will you be open to label suggestions as Fred "sometimes" was?
I was able to convince Fred on a few, and a few he labeled a little less than I would have liked.
One big one was when Fred agreed that my Sacagawea was indeed "Struck Thru Twine" and labeled the mint error as such.
So here would be a very similar situation, the coin below was obviously "Struck Thru Twine" and hypothetically if I sent this coin in as a crossover, would I get the "Struck Thru Twine" mint error label the coin deserves? Side note: My guess it will not get the lofty MS67 at PCGS
Hypothetically it could also have been struck through a Earthworm
I doubt having the word Twine on the label makes it any more valuable of a strike through error.
It actually does make a big difference to some to have as accurate descriptions as possible and unique struck thrus are super cool IMO.
Yes, whenever possible, the actual description of the strike thru "maker" (cloth, string, plastic, etc) on the PCGS label is the way to go. The more information on a label the better, as it benefits both collectors and dealers, and simply makes the coin more interesting to the owner.
We all love to know "what exactly" caused or makes up a particular error, and the generic term "strike thru" is a last resort when no direct cause can be determined.
I agree with Jon's statements above - if we're 98.5% certain it's struck thru
a specific item, PCGS will note it - if not, then 'struck thru' will have to suffice.
And I just realized I have to stop saying 'we', and say 'Jon' !
Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
@ErrorsOnCoins said:
Fred, LOL, so the threshold is 98.5%.
And I thank you very much for the "Struck Thru Twine" mint error label on that Sac. I sold it shortly thereafter
Exactly, having such a precise description is a benefit to everyone involved, and I think Fred has always done a solid job getting descriptions accurate and precise. Putting a generic description is always just a last resort when it cannot be determined with certainty.
When I sell coins, I delete the images which I properly shouldn't. My computer hard drive crashed recently so I did lose some unbacked up info and photos.
I know PCGS has a true view but I do not know the cert number without doing some deep digging. Zions is great at research, maybe he can find the trueview and convince me more on the following of pedigrees.
When I sell coins, I delete the images which I properly shouldn't. My computer hard drive crashed recently so I did lose some unbacked up info and photos.
I know PCGS has a true view but I do not know the cert number without doing some deep digging. Zions is great at research, maybe he can find the trueview and convince me more on the following of pedigrees.
Very nice, thanks for the link. The eye-appeal is excellent!
Sullivan is AN AWESOME Error Coin Dealer !!! He is super knowledgeable. I have been adding Error Coinage to my wayward& meandering error coin archive for Five plus Decades. I have done biz with 99% of all the heavy error hobby hitters, most transactions back then occurred via long distance charges or just trust. Jon has helped me expand my collection as he is sourcing epic, unique inventory. Any one on the planet who collects errors should refresh Sullivan's site, often. You might save big money on achieving your desires by buying direct, and not 48 hours later for 2x to 3x or 4x or more admission. Happy Friday !!! Happy Shopping !!!
Way kewl! A two-sided strike through that wrapped around the edge during the strike!
Would that make it a three-sided strike through?
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@LindyS said:
Sullivan is AN AWESOME Error Coin Dealer !!! He is super knowledgeable. I have been adding Error Coinage to my wayward& meandering error coin archive for Five plus Decades. I have done biz with 99% of all the heavy error hobby hitters, most transactions back then occurred via long distance charges or just trust. Jon has helped me expand my collection as he is sourcing epic, unique inventory. Any one on the planet who collects errors should refresh Sullivan's site, often. You might save big money on achieving your desires by buying direct, and not 48 hours later for 2x to 3x or 4x or more admission. Happy Friday !!! Happy Shopping !!!
Thank you Lindy, always enjoy talking errors with you!
@Srivano Nice double-sided strike through, and through string most likely. It appears to have the fibers and pattern of some sort of string. It could most likely be written that way if submitted to PCGS, although an in-person examination would be needed to confirm.
Do you think it would be provable for that 1965 half dollar?
I'd have to see it in person to say for sure, and wouldn't want to give a description based on a photo.
Notable to hear that you'd have to see it in person & happy to hear that you've taken a place in PCGS history. Does that mean that a submission travels from Ohio to California, to Florida and back to California? Current turn around times prevent many from submitting as it is. If so, seems like an unreasonable amount of time to grade.
@younique said:
Notable to hear that you'd have to see it in person & happy to hear that you've taken a place in PCGS history. Does that mean that a submission travels from Ohio to California, to Florida and back to California? Current turn around times prevent many from submitting as it is. If so, seems like an unreasonable amount of time to grade.
@younique Although I am not the person to ask about turnaround times, I don't think it makes much if any difference on turnaround times as the process by which I examine the coins is expeditious.
@ErrorsOnCoins said:
Jon, will you be open to label suggestions as Fred "sometimes" was?
I was able to convince Fred on a few, and a few he labeled a little less than I would have liked.
One big one was when Fred agreed that my Sacagawea was indeed "Struck Thru Twine" and labeled the mint error as such.
So here would be a very similar situation, the coin below was obviously "Struck Thru Twine" and hypothetically if I sent this coin in as a crossover, would I get the "Struck Thru Twine" mint error label the coin deserves? Side note: My guess it will not get the lofty MS67 at PCGS
Wasn't that coin found in a 1965 Special Mint Set? So shouldn't it be labeled SMS or SP?
Congrats to Jon on being PCGS's new error attributor, and congrats to PCGS for figuring out that using consultants not based in southern California might be a good idea.
So if you were faced with the same situation that Fred was where he agreed it was "Struck Thru Twine", if you also agreed, you would write it up "Struck Thru Twine". That's great. I know this is a big deal for Chris and could get more coins for PCGS (with TrueViews)!
@ErrorsOnCoins said:
One big one was when Fred agreed that my Sacagawea was indeed "Struck Thru Twine" and labeled the mint error as such.<
If it was provable to be through string, yes.
It is provable that it is a struck thru.
NGC uses the word struck thru for most all their coins that are struck thru with the exception of struck thru cloth.
The reason I believe this coin is struck thru twine and not string or rope is the frayed fibers coming off the strike thru. Rope and string have a tight weave without a lot of excess fibers. Twine on the other hand is string or ropelike but throws off quite a bit of excess fibers.
IMO there is a HUGE difference in the label "struck thru" (could be anything even a small amount of grease) as oppose the very descriptive term "struck thru twine"
For the time being, I will probably leave the coin in this holder it is in and may show the coin to you in person at some future show for you opinion. Will you be at the next Long Beach Show?
I think anyone viewing the coin can deduce it was struck thru some sort of string. I don't think it's necessary for the grader to use that level of granularity on the label.
Yes, Jon, is very knowledgeable in his new position. Met the gentleman at the recent ANA Show in Chicago. I showed him my newly found "dual Strike throughs", in which were raw at the time.
Here they are now certified. However, by the, "across the street", fellows. lol
Jon, if you are out there? Remember me?
Discussing these with you? I can totally understand if you don't, sir.
Thank You.
001.
002.
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.
@joeykoins said:
Yes, Jon, is very knowledgeable in his new position. Met the gentleman at the recent ANA Show in Chicago. I showed him my newly found "dual Strike throughs", in which were raw at the time.
Here they are now certified. However, by the, "across the street", fellows. lol
Jon, if you are out there? Remember me?
Discussing these with you? I can totally understand if you don't, sir.
Thank You.
I do recall the coins I think--nice to meet you at the show, and appreciate the kind words.
@joeykoins said:
Yes, Jon, is very knowledgeable in his new position. Met the gentleman at the recent ANA Show in Chicago. I showed him my newly found "dual Strike throughs", in which were raw at the time.
Here they are now certified. However, by the, "across the street", fellows. lol
Jon, if you are out there? Remember me?
Discussing these with you? I can totally understand if you don't, sir.
Thank You.
I do recall the coins I think--nice to meet you at the show, and appreciate the kind words.
Awesome, thanks for replying.
Maybe, next Big Show in Chicago, I'll show off my 2 Unique Gems, personally?
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.
All the grading services have a duty of trust to authenticate, grade, and accurately attribute the coins customers send them, and that's what I try to do with PCGS as attributer and authenticator. Fred Weinberg did a fantastic job for decades, and I am honored to fill the role he had as PCGS attributer.
Comments
Hypothetically it could also have been struck through a Earthworm
I doubt having the word Twine on the label makes it any more valuable of a strike through error.
It actually does make a big difference to some to have as accurate descriptions as possible and unique struck thrus are super cool IMO.
@ErrorsOnCoins said:
“It actually does make a big difference to some to have as accurate descriptions as possible and unique struck thrus are super cool IMO.”
I have to agree with Chris (CTF Errors) on this one!
BOTH PCGS and NGC need to do a better job describing struck thru’s.
There!
I said it😳
SullivanNumismatics said:
“PCGS has the final "veto power" over any attributions I make.”
ErrorsOnCoins said:
“Sounds like PCGS wants to double check any new attributions to be 100% sure.”
I was spoiled for 20 years. I was able to drive to Fred’s office, do business and while I was there, Fred would write up my walk thru mint error submission ( like when he authenticated my gold 1900 Indian Head Cent). Then I would drive to PCGS and walk it thru. In some cases I would select the 2 day option or 5 day option.
Sounds like ( no fault on Jon’s part ofcourse) that PCGS is not able to handle walk thru and express mint error submission invoices anymore unless they are at a coin show to receive them. Otherwise obviously there are delays now, using Jon in Florida. It would still be nice to have the option to send some to PCGS, if they can figure this out.
Yes, whenever possible, the actual description of the strike thru "maker" (cloth, string, plastic, etc) on the PCGS label is the way to go. The more information on a label the better, as it benefits both collectors and dealers, and simply makes the coin more interesting to the owner.
We all love to know "what exactly" caused or makes up a particular error, and the generic term "strike thru" is a last resort when no direct cause can be determined.
I agree with Jon's statements above - if we're 98.5% certain it's struck thru
a specific item, PCGS will note it - if not, then 'struck thru' will have to suffice.
And I just realized I have to stop saying 'we', and say 'Jon' !
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
Fred, LOL, so the threshold is 98.5%.
And I thank you very much for the "Struck Thru Twine" mint error label on that Sac. I sold it shortly thereafter
Exactly, having such a precise description is a benefit to everyone involved, and I think Fred has always done a solid job getting descriptions accurate and precise. Putting a generic description is always just a last resort when it cannot be determined with certainty.
That sounds like a neat Sacagawea you had Chris.
Jon, here is the link to the original Sac on twine thread.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1005012/huge-major-struck-thru-sacagawea-error-coin/p1
When I sell coins, I delete the images which I properly shouldn't. My computer hard drive crashed recently so I did lose some unbacked up info and photos.
I know PCGS has a true view but I do not know the cert number without doing some deep digging. Zions is great at research, maybe he can find the trueview and convince me more on the following of pedigrees.
Very nice, thanks for the link. The eye-appeal is excellent!
I dug a little deeper and found the trueview, Graded MS66 "Struck Thru Twine"
I buy on eBay a 10 mint set …. This was a nice surprise ….
It is indeed very interesting. Why not start a new thread on it?
I did post it on my profile … as “ Struck Through Twine? Mint Error”
You should start a new thread. No one will see it on your wall/profile.
Sullivan is AN AWESOME Error Coin Dealer !!! He is super knowledgeable. I have been adding Error Coinage to my wayward& meandering error coin archive for Five plus Decades. I have done biz with 99% of all the heavy error hobby hitters, most transactions back then occurred via long distance charges or just trust. Jon has helped me expand my collection as he is sourcing epic, unique inventory. Any one on the planet who collects errors should refresh Sullivan's site, often. You might save big money on achieving your desires by buying direct, and not 48 hours later for 2x to 3x or 4x or more admission. Happy Friday !!! Happy Shopping !!!
Way kewl! A two-sided strike through that wrapped around the edge during the strike!
Would that make it a three-sided strike through?
TD
Thank you Lindy, always enjoy talking errors with you!
@Srivano Nice double-sided strike through, and through string most likely. It appears to have the fibers and pattern of some sort of string. It could most likely be written that way if submitted to PCGS, although an in-person examination would be needed to confirm.
Notable to hear that you'd have to see it in person & happy to hear that you've taken a place in PCGS history. Does that mean that a submission travels from Ohio to California, to Florida and back to California? Current turn around times prevent many from submitting as it is. If so, seems like an unreasonable amount of time to grade.
@younique Although I am not the person to ask about turnaround times, I don't think it makes much if any difference on turnaround times as the process by which I examine the coins is expeditious.
Wasn't that coin found in a 1965 Special Mint Set? So shouldn't it be labeled SMS or SP?
My mistake . . . It was a 1965 quarter that I saw in the special mint set.
Congrats to Jon on being PCGS's new error attributor, and congrats to PCGS for figuring out that using consultants not based in southern California might be a good idea.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
I think anyone viewing the coin can deduce it was struck thru some sort of string. I don't think it's necessary for the grader to use that level of granularity on the label.
Great error though!
Yes, Jon, is very knowledgeable in his new position. Met the gentleman at the recent ANA Show in Chicago. I showed him my newly found "dual Strike throughs", in which were raw at the time.
Here they are now certified. However, by the, "across the street", fellows. lol
Jon, if you are out there? Remember me?
Discussing these with you? I can totally understand if you don't, sir.
Thank You.
001.
002.
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.I do recall the coins I think--nice to meet you at the show, and appreciate the kind words.
Awesome, thanks for replying.
Maybe, next Big Show in Chicago, I'll show off my 2 Unique Gems, personally?
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.Congratulations Jon!
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
Thank you.
All the grading services have a duty of trust to authenticate, grade, and accurately attribute the coins customers send them, and that's what I try to do with PCGS as attributer and authenticator. Fred Weinberg did a fantastic job for decades, and I am honored to fill the role he had as PCGS attributer.