Two new denarii - The Brother Emperors

MKUltra24

Just wanted to share my most recent pickup with you guys.

The two brother Emperors: Caracalla & Geta.

They could have worked together and used their relationship as brothers to accomplish big things!

Instead..Caracalla had his younger brother Geta murdered in his mother’s arms.

Caracalla (AD 198-217). AR denarius (19mm, 3.28 gm, 5h). NGC Choice AU 5/5 - 4/5. Rome, AD 201-206. ANTONINVS-PIVS AVG, laureate, draped and cuirassed bust of Caracalla right, seen from behind / CONCORDIA-FELIX, Plautilla, on left, standing right, clasping right hands with Caracalla, on right, standing left, with scroll in left hand. RIC IV.I 124b.

Geta, as Caesar (AD 209-211). AR denarius (19mm, 2.91 gm, 5h). NGC Choice AU 5/5 - 4/5. Rome, AD 200-202. P SEPT GETA-CAES PONT, bare headed, draped, and cuirassed bust of Geta right, seen from behind / SECVRIT-IMPERII, Securitas enthroned left, globe in right hand, left arm on chair. RIC IV.I 20b.

From The Santa Monica Collection

Herb_T

Nice big brother! However, if they had worked together who knows if the younger brother would have knocked off the older one? We will never know…..times were brutal for sure!

MKUltra24

@Herb_T said:
Nice big brother! However, if they had worked together who knows if the younger brother would have knocked off the older one? We will never know…..times were brutal for sure!

I agree times were brutal but I think Caracalla was exceptionally brutal in that he had is brother murdered in his mother’s arms which is like an extra dose of cruelty.

Many Emperors killed people but I don’t think even Caligula or Nero murdered people in their own mother’s arms.

John Conduitt

@MKUltra24 said:
I agree times were brutal but I think Caracalla was exceptionally brutal in that he had is brother murdered in his mother’s arms which is like an extra dose of cruelty.

Many Emperors killed people but I don’t think even Caligula or Nero murdered people in their own mother’s arms.

Geta died in his mother’s arms, rather than being killed in his mother’s arms.

If you believe contemporary rumours, Nero did a lot worse to his mother.

291fifth

The problem with much ancient history is that a lot of it wasn't written until long after the event. There is always the possibility of political spin in the narratives.

Sapyx

Their father, Septimus Severus, seemed to know that Geta didn't have "what it takes" to be emperor, at least as far as the military capability required for the job was concerned, as he refrained from giving Geta the same Imperial titles his big brother received.

It was probably better for the Empire as a whole, that there were not two equally talented, equally ambitious brothers vying for dominance, as it would most likely have caused (another) civil war. It was just hard luck for the less talented brother.

Killing off your brothers when you became ruler became common practice in later centuries. We see the apex of this in the Ottoman Empire, where a new sultan would routinely and ruthlessly wipe out the entire rest of his family, to remove all possible rivals. And the Ottoman sultans tended to have lots of kids.

MKUltra24

@291fifth said:
The problem with much ancient history is that a lot of it wasn't written until long after the event. There is always the possibility of political spin in the narratives.

But I think a lot of historians used primary sources.

For example Suetonius was born in 69 AD and died sometime after 122 AD so it’s likely he would’ve been able to interview people alive during the time of previous Emperors even if he wasn’t himself.

I think Senators would be the best sources since they would’ve had regular access to Emperors as even Emperors attended Senate meetings. Afterall even Caesar did so as dictator. That’s where he died.

MKUltra24

@Sapyx said:
Their father, Septimus Severus, seemed to know that Geta didn't have "what it takes" to be emperor, at least as far as the military capability required for the job was concerned, as he refrained from giving Geta the same Imperial titles his big brother received.

It was probably better for the Empire as a whole, that there were not two equally talented, equally ambitious brothers vying for dominance, as it would most likely have caused (another) civil war. It was just hard luck for the less talented brother.

Killing off your brothers when you became ruler became common practice in later centuries. We see the apex of this in the Ottoman Empire, where a new sultan would routinely and ruthlessly wipe out the entire rest of his family, to remove all possible rivals. And the Ottoman sultans tended to have lots of kids.

Hmm I didn't think of that. To be honest my knowledge of Emperors tends to be with the Emperors from Augustus to Commodus.

But I guess that means Septimius Severus didn't make the same mistake Marcus Aurelius did of appointing someone Emperor who was not up to the job like he did with Commodus.

I've always wondered what would've happened to Rome if Commodus had been the one who died and his brother survived. Maybe his brother would've been more like his father and prolonged the period of Pax Romana and Roman prosperity.

As Cassius Dio wrote: "(Commodus was) not naturally wicked but, on the contrary, as guileless as any man that ever lived. His great simplicity, however, together with his cowardice, made him the slave of his companions, and it was through them that he at first, out of ignorance, missed the better life and then was led on into lustful and cruel habits, which soon became second nature."

& "his accession marked the descent "from a kingdom of gold to one of iron and rust".

I think his incompetency is why Lucilla tried to assassinate him.

MKUltra24

@JohnConduitt said:

@MKUltra24 said:
I agree times were brutal but I think Caracalla was exceptionally brutal in that he had is brother murdered in his mother’s arms which is like an extra dose of cruelty.

Many Emperors killed people but I don’t think even Caligula or Nero murdered people in their own mother’s arms.

Geta died in his mother’s arms, rather than being killed in his mother’s arms.

If you believe contemporary rumours, Nero did a lot worse to his mother.

Hmm I guess that depends on who you ask.

I think the majority of mothers would say they’d rather be murdered than watch their child be murdered.

Plenty of cases of mothers voluntarily dying so their children can survive.

But idk if Geta’s mother was one of them.