The contact marks on the obverse (left leg, arm, body, rays) and the spots, in addition to the numerous contact marks on the reverse in the rays and wing preclude a 65 grade in my opinion. None of them are particularly distracting, which still make for a nice coin, but there are too many to justify a 65 gem grade.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
Why? It doesn't look under-graded and there's very little difference in value between a CAC and a non-CAC example. ..
Mark:
Remember that I stated that I thought it was an MS-63 to MS-64 so that I did not think it was undergraded. My thinking about CAC is different than what most people think about CAC.
Getting it reviewed by CAC is not about increasing the value of this holder. It is more about tightening grading skills. At $15 per submission with no charge for a failed submission for a collector account with CAC it is very inexpensive tuition especially if you do not have to pay for shipping to and from CAC.
Additionally I feel having a PCGS slab stickered makes the coin more easily saleable especially when it is the collector's heirs rather than the collector selling it. I have found most collectors privately agree with me.
I just realized looking at your prior posting that you and I happened to identically agree on the grade of this coin admittedly just looking at photos.
Why? It doesn't look under-graded and there's very little difference in value between a CAC and a non-CAC example. ..
Mark:
Remember that I stated that I thought it was an MS-63 to MS-64 so that I did not think it was undergraded. My thinking about CAC is different than what most people think about CAC.
Getting it reviewed by CAC is not about increasing the value of this holder. It is more about tightening grading skills. At $15 per submission with no charge for a failed submission for a collector account with CAC it is very inexpensive tuition especially if you do not have to pay for shipping to and from CAC.
Additionally I feel having a PCGS slab stickered makes the coin more easily saleable especially when it is the collector's heirs rather than the collector selling it. I have found most collectors privately agree with me.
I just realized looking at your prior posting that you and I happened to identically agree on the grade of this coin admittedly just looking at photos.
I’m all for education and helping others with their grading skills. However, as sharp and helpful as J.A. is, I don’t think there’s a lot to be gained from getting feedback on a single generic Saint. I’d feel differently if we were talking about several examples. If for some reason, a submitter doesn’t have to pay round trip postage, sure, he should probably go for it. But that would be an unusual situation. And MS64 common date Saints are extremely liquid without CAC stickers.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I was in the Baltimore show just a few weeks ago. Indeed MS Saints were hot and extremely liquid without CAC stickers as you state.
However, I was passing the time near the closing time of the show on Friday and looking at a dealer's table to peruse some coins. A non coin-collector; obviously a descendant of a deceased coin collector came to the table with some coins to sell. She was obviously not familiar with the different TPG companies.
One of the coins she wanted to sell was a 1928 Saint in PCGS MS-65 in a rattler holder. Beautiful coin. The dealer tried to tell the seller about how the Saint was terribly overgraded and only worth bullion value. . From my prior experience I kept my mouth shut but stared harshly at the dealer when the seller was not looking. Somehow I got the dealer to state that she should shop her coin around different dealers without making him look bad.
When she left to look elsewhere, the dealer admitted to me that he would not have been comfortable stating that the coin was only worth bullion if it had been stickered.
Your comment is spot on for all the coin collectors that visit here but what about their heirs?
I was in the Baltimore show just a few weeks ago. Indeed MS Saints were hot and extremely liquid without CAC stickers as you state.
However, I was passing the time near the closing time of the show on Friday and looking at a dealer's table to peruse some coins. A non coin-collector; obviously a descendant of a deceased coin collector came to the table with some coins to sell. She was obviously not familiar with the different TPG companies.
One of the coins she wanted to sell was a 1928 Saint in PCGS MS-65 in a rattler holder. Beautiful coin. The dealer tried to tell the seller about how the Saint was terribly overgraded and only worth bullion value. . From my prior experience I kept my mouth shut but stared harshly at the dealer when the seller was not looking. Somehow I got the dealer to state that she should shop her coin around different dealers without making him look bad.
When she left to look elsewhere, the dealer admitted to me that he would not have been comfortable stating that the coin was only worth bullion if it had been stickered.
Your comment is spot on for all the coin collectors that visit here but what about their heirs?
The dealer shouldn’t have been comfortable stating that the coin was only worth bullion without a sticker, either! If an unknowledgeable seller can get taken when selling a highly liquid PCGS coin, he’s quite capable of getting taken, selling one with a sticker, too.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I was in the Baltimore show just a few weeks ago. Indeed MS Saints were hot and extremely liquid without CAC stickers as you state.
However, I was passing the time near the closing time of the show on Friday and looking at a dealer's table to peruse some coins. A non coin-collector; obviously a descendant of a deceased coin collector came to the table with some coins to sell. She was obviously not familiar with the different TPG companies.
One of the coins she wanted to sell was a 1928 Saint in PCGS MS-65 in a rattler holder. Beautiful coin. The dealer tried to tell the seller about how the Saint was terribly overgraded and only worth bullion value. . From my prior experience I kept my mouth shut but stared harshly at the dealer when the seller was not looking. Somehow I got the dealer to state that she should shop her coin around different dealers without making him look bad.
When she left to look elsewhere, the dealer admitted to me that he would not have been comfortable stating that the coin was only worth bullion if it had been stickered.
Your comment is spot on for all the coin collectors that visit here but what about their heirs?
The dealer shouldn’t have been comfortable stating that the coin was only worth bullion without a sticker, either! If an unknowledgeable seller can get taken when selling a highly liquid PCGS coin, he’s quite capable of getting taken, selling one with a sticker, too.
Then the coin collector did not do his job preparing his heirs that the sticker means that their coin is NOT overgraded and NOT garbage. and that many but not all dealers happen to like stickered slabs.
I know what your response will be to my statement. LOL.
I was in the Baltimore show just a few weeks ago. Indeed MS Saints were hot and extremely liquid without CAC stickers as you state.
However, I was passing the time near the closing time of the show on Friday and looking at a dealer's table to peruse some coins. A non coin-collector; obviously a descendant of a deceased coin collector came to the table with some coins to sell. She was obviously not familiar with the different TPG companies.
One of the coins she wanted to sell was a 1928 Saint in PCGS MS-65 in a rattler holder. Beautiful coin. The dealer tried to tell the seller about how the Saint was terribly overgraded and only worth bullion value. . From my prior experience I kept my mouth shut but stared harshly at the dealer when the seller was not looking. Somehow I got the dealer to state that she should shop her coin around different dealers without making him look bad.
When she left to look elsewhere, the dealer admitted to me that he would not have been comfortable stating that the coin was only worth bullion if it had been stickered.
Your comment is spot on for all the coin collectors that visit here but what about their heirs?
The dealer shouldn’t have been comfortable stating that the coin was only worth bullion without a sticker, either! If an unknowledgeable seller can get taken when selling a highly liquid PCGS coin, he’s quite capable of getting taken, selling one with a sticker, too.
Then the coin collector did not do his job preparing his heirs that the sticker means that their coin is NOT overgraded and NOT garbage. and that many but not all dealers happen to like stickered slabs.
I know what your response will be to my statement. LOL.
You very well might. 😉
When I agree with you, I enjoy reading your posts. When I disagree with you, I also enjoy reading them.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I was in the Baltimore show just a few weeks ago. Indeed MS Saints were hot and extremely liquid without CAC stickers as you state.
However, I was passing the time near the closing time of the show on Friday and looking at a dealer's table to peruse some coins. A non coin-collector; obviously a descendant of a deceased coin collector came to the table with some coins to sell. She was obviously not familiar with the different TPG companies.
One of the coins she wanted to sell was a 1928 Saint in PCGS MS-65 in a rattler holder. Beautiful coin. The dealer tried to tell the seller about how the Saint was terribly overgraded and only worth bullion value. . From my prior experience I kept my mouth shut but stared harshly at the dealer when the seller was not looking. Somehow I got the dealer to state that she should shop her coin around different dealers without making him look bad.
When she left to look elsewhere, the dealer admitted to me that he would not have been comfortable stating that the coin was only worth bullion if it had been stickered.
Your comment is spot on for all the coin collectors that visit here but what about their heirs?
There is no excuse for dealers lying like that but it has been commonplace for a long time...."It is naught, it is naught, saith the buyer: but when he is gone his way, then he boasteth." (Proverbs 20:14)
Comments
Was going to say MS 63; 63 or 64 seems about right on this one.
Nice to see you back!
Pretty coin!
U.S. Type Set
Looks better than most of the 64's I've seen. Nice coin!
Has it been reviewed by CAC?
It should be.
Why? It doesn't look under-graded and there's very little difference in value between a CAC and a non-CAC example.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Wow! If I had known it was in a rattler, I would have guessed MS62.
Young Numismatist • My Toned Coins
Life is roadblocks. Don't let nothing stop you, 'cause we ain't stopping. - DJ Khaled
Me likes the holder.
I guessed 63.
Pete
Im no less than ms65 still. nice coin!
The contact marks on the obverse (left leg, arm, body, rays) and the spots, in addition to the numerous contact marks on the reverse in the rays and wing preclude a 65 grade in my opinion. None of them are particularly distracting, which still make for a nice coin, but there are too many to justify a 65 gem grade.
Mark:
Remember that I stated that I thought it was an MS-63 to MS-64 so that I did not think it was undergraded. My thinking about CAC is different than what most people think about CAC.
Getting it reviewed by CAC is not about increasing the value of this holder. It is more about tightening grading skills. At $15 per submission with no charge for a failed submission for a collector account with CAC it is very inexpensive tuition especially if you do not have to pay for shipping to and from CAC.
Additionally I feel having a PCGS slab stickered makes the coin more easily saleable especially when it is the collector's heirs rather than the collector selling it. I have found most collectors privately agree with me.
I just realized looking at your prior posting that you and I happened to identically agree on the grade of this coin admittedly just looking at photos.
I’m all for education and helping others with their grading skills. However, as sharp and helpful as J.A. is, I don’t think there’s a lot to be gained from getting feedback on a single generic Saint. I’d feel differently if we were talking about several examples. If for some reason, a submitter doesn’t have to pay round trip postage, sure, he should probably go for it. But that would be an unusual situation. And MS64 common date Saints are extremely liquid without CAC stickers.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Mark:
I was in the Baltimore show just a few weeks ago. Indeed MS Saints were hot and extremely liquid without CAC stickers as you state.
However, I was passing the time near the closing time of the show on Friday and looking at a dealer's table to peruse some coins. A non coin-collector; obviously a descendant of a deceased coin collector came to the table with some coins to sell. She was obviously not familiar with the different TPG companies.
One of the coins she wanted to sell was a 1928 Saint in PCGS MS-65 in a rattler holder. Beautiful coin. The dealer tried to tell the seller about how the Saint was terribly overgraded and only worth bullion value. . From my prior experience I kept my mouth shut but stared harshly at the dealer when the seller was not looking. Somehow I got the dealer to state that she should shop her coin around different dealers without making him look bad.
When she left to look elsewhere, the dealer admitted to me that he would not have been comfortable stating that the coin was only worth bullion if it had been stickered.
Your comment is spot on for all the coin collectors that visit here but what about their heirs?
The dealer shouldn’t have been comfortable stating that the coin was only worth bullion without a sticker, either! If an unknowledgeable seller can get taken when selling a highly liquid PCGS coin, he’s quite capable of getting taken, selling one with a sticker, too.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Then the coin collector did not do his job preparing his heirs that the sticker means that their coin is NOT overgraded and NOT garbage. and that many but not all dealers happen to like stickered slabs.
I know what your response will be to my statement. LOL.
You very well might. 😉
When I agree with you, I enjoy reading your posts. When I disagree with you, I also enjoy reading them.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
How did I miss this?
Although the grade has already been posted; I'll still say that it sure looks 65 to me.
Nice Saint!
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
There is no excuse for dealers lying like that but it has been commonplace for a long time...."It is naught, it is naught, saith the buyer: but when he is gone his way, then he boasteth." (Proverbs 20:14)