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Annoying trend on eBay. Sellers who refuse to grade their cards.
MisterTim1962
Posts: 318 ✭✭✭
They tell you to look at the photos and decide for yourself. Too difficult to see light creases or other flaws from a low resolution photo. Many sellers also refuse to take a photo of the back of the card. A lot of the time, they're hiding a card with a faded back or with a wax stain. I've been burned a couple of times by buying cards from sellers who do this, but I won't be fooled again. End of rant!
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I dont believe ebay rules allow sellers to specify a grade for a card not graded by PSA or an acceptable grading company. I know that is the rule with coins.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I think he means sellers should describe the condition and faults of their card, not give a numeric grade.
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If that is the case, that's why it's best to stick with graded cards or reputable sellers. The savings are not worth the risk.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Sellers on here do the same. I just picked up a set of 86F stickers which the seller failed to mention 4 of the cards 12 have surface indentations from a binder.
Brian
Yes, that's what I'm talking about. I know grading is subjective, but give it a shot. Always list every flaw and grade the card conservatively. A near mint card does not have dinged corners, for example. Ex-mt cards do not have creases and dog-eared corners.
This wouldn't be a big deal, but there's hundreds of listings for 1969 Topps added every day. I get tired of wasting my time clicking on listings only to see that "look at the photos" baloney in the description.
Pointing out the flaws should happen, of course. On the other hand, grading the card (EX-MT for example) is just opening yourself up for a “not as described” refund/return.
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curious what "conservatively" means? To me it means within established standards like the few things you mentioned and what a reasonable grade would be from the grading companies. Not sending my card in and having it graded by the GOD. I think for some it means super harsh GOD grading so that a card listed as ex/mt and have it be a PSA 8 or a listed NM card that becomes a 9
while it is a pain to have searches filled without an estimated grade, that is the cost and work of finding the card for a less than market price.
I also disagree with the statement "A lot of the time, they're hiding a card with a faded back or with a wax stain." Sure it happens but if you look at 1000 raw cards , the amount that have wax or an issue probably doesn't qualify as "a lot of the time." I don't show backs because if I had to double all of the work, I probably wouldn't bother. The balance of time and enjoyment is in equilibrium for me with taking 1 scan. That said if anyone wants a scan of the back I always provide it and if there is wax or a miscut back, I specify that but there are probably a few times I miss something but that is rare
and Finally, I AGREE not posting any estimated grade is a bit of a pain but. I think the reason this is happening more is that sellers are using AI software to build the listings where they scan the card and the description gets generated. I found a card listed as OPC that clearly wasn't and this was the sellers reply that he used AI. All this means is that some nice deals can be had with a little more work
I agree 100%, how can an untrained seller guess a grade when the grading companies can't? it's a pretty subjective determination, if it wasn't people wouldn't crack open slabs and resubmit hoping for a better grade.
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100% and the primary reason Ebay does not allow it.
Let's face it when money is at stake, many sellers are going to enhance the attributes not focus on the flaws. That's why third party grading is as useful as it is~it takes the subjectivity out of the discussion.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
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Doesn’t Greg Morris always list grades on raw cards?
TIm, I'm confused where eBay doesn't allow a grade description? the majority of raw sellers list a grade.
If a buyer wants to open a snad, they can do it for any reason so I don't think listing a grade would change much
I know they prohibit sellers from stating a grade for raw coins so I assumed it was same for cards but I am not certain. Either way, pre-grading a raw card for sale is opening up a can of worms. Better to describe the card and let good, clear photos/scans speak for themselves.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Well not on the PSA scale.... Just the Ex/NRMT/MT scale.
since the start of covid I have probably sold 3K raw cards ranging from $2 commons to $200 stars/rookies, majority 1948-1979 with some key 80's stuff in higher grade. I list a reasonable grade based on the established grading scale that has been around since forever along with clear scans of the front. I do not mention PSA, SGC , Beckett or any grading company just Good, VG, VG/EX, EX etc. I almost never call a card MINT and top out at NM/MT . I have had one return (actually told him to keep it ) for a missed wrinkle on the back of a NM/MT card.
I guess the point is if you provide a good scan and legit grades there won't be issues and you end up with buyers come back on a regular basis. If you are overgrading all the time, you probably don't want to open up the can of worms with anything on the grade scale. This is probably what the OP is seeing which requires weeding through a lot more crap
There are good sellers who provide clear images with full disclosure but let's be honest here buying raw on ebay in general, whether it's single cards or unopened, is often akin to navigating a virtual minefield.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
contrary to popular believe (yes we are on a graded card board so there is a bias here for sure) there are more people on ebay/facebook who collect ungraded cards and don't want graded cards vs. those who collect graded
tough to group packs and singles together. packs are a different animal as there is a clear reason not to authenticate a pack and most justify the cost of grading. Cards on the other hand are not economically viable in a wide range of situations, especially in the lower/mid grade stars and in commons.
Easy solution: Don't buy raw, or you will be fooled again.
Easy solution, but expensive. I don't want to pay $20 for a 1969 Jose Tartabull because it's graded. I'll never complete my set in near mint condition if I have to pay crazy prices for dirt common cards.
That's understandable, of course. But to achieve that task you're going to have to take the good with the bad because the majority of sellers are going to hype their cards when listing raw ones for sale.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Tim, how much raw do you search for and buy on eBay? It seems you are painting a pretty broad brush. Sure when you get unseasoned sellers with limited experience they are calling their VG/EX cards MINT but is that the case for the regular sellers with long track records ......... I don't know if I agree that it is from my experience
Well, the OP started this thread complaining about this very issue...
My point is that when you leave the "grading" of raw cards to the seller, there's an inherent bias involved that TPG takes out of the equation. Obviously, some sellers are more reliable and accurate than others, but I'd feel comfortable wagering that by volume the number of overgraded raw cards listed for sale on ebay dwarfs the number of undergraded cards, and in many cases the discrepancy is also quite subtle and more nuanced than "calling VG/EX cards MINT," too. JMHO based on experience.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I've bought quite a few cards from Sirius Sports Auctions and most were very accurately graded. But I did get one with a wax stain on the back and one had a light crease. Greg Morris Cards is great, but I did get a '69 F. Robby with a light indentation on the front. They list a huge number of cards on Ebay, so it's understandable that they might miss a flaw once in awhile. Those flaws didn't bother me enough to return them, though.
I rarely buy cards from newbie sellers or low feedback sellers (under 100), so they're not the problem. The problem is the middle of the road sellers. They sell quite a few cards and have great feedback, but I seem to get burned on those sellers. Wax stains on the back, light crease, faded backs, cards with well centered fronts, but miscut backs (never mentioned or shown with a photo) and so on. I'm not a really fussy guy, but I do know when a card is overgraded. Nothing worse than paying the near mint price for a card that's only in excellent condition. Leaves a sour taste in your mouth and gives you the feeling that you got burned on the deal.
if the grading companies can't agree and be consistent then it isn't really fair to expect someone ungraded to hold to a standard. backs are the most inconsistent part of TPG. faded , miscut , 90/10 backs sometimes matters and sometimes doesn't. If it bothers you then it is always best to just ask for a back scan before buying. if you are calling a faded back excellent and the TPG is calling it NM at times, tough to be upset with a seller for calling it NM. everyone has different preferences, some want centered cards and less corners , some want razor sharp corners and less centering , others don't care about minor print issues, others see one fisheye and say the card isEX. I guess my point is that no matter what you buy, raw or graded, there's more than one way to skin a cat
I guess it gets back to what someone said previous that is related, if you want to take the guesswork out of it, buy graded. I would personally add that you will probably still be having issues because even the TPG's have much variation in what they call NM. Although these days you could probably buy all PSA5's and feel like you are getting NM so there is probably hope for happiness
I have assembled countless NM raw sets from the 60s, 70s, and 80s, filling my want lists with raw eBay purchases. I can only recall a mere handful of times when I received a card where the condition/estimated grade was less than what I expected. More often than not, I was pleasantly surprised at what I received. Yes, you have to look through countless listings, but the hunt is part of the process. If all you had to do was enter the card numbers and their desired grades into your search, and then throw enough money out there to acquire them, you'd be done with your set in a week, and then what? Enjoy the journey.