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I am surprised this coin was graded at all

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  • MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,261 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cameonut2011 said:
    and the grade “XF details” is still a grade and subject to further decrease if the coin’s quality continues to deteriorate.

    How can the coin continue to wear in the holder?

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,169 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MasonG said:

    @cameonut2011 said:
    and the grade “XF details” is still a grade and subject to further decrease if the coin’s quality continues to deteriorate.

    How can the coin continue to wear in the holder?

    It goes beyond wear. If it corrodes beyond recognition would you still be okay with an XF details grade?

  • MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,261 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No. I suspect NGC wouldn't either, and that they considered the possibility of that happening to be small enough to ignore.

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,169 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MasonG said:
    No. I suspect NGC wouldn't either, and that they considered the possibility of that happening to be small enough to ignore.

    That takes a huge leap of faith.

  • braddickbraddick Posts: 24,238 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Where do "XF Details" even come from?
    It appears "UNC Details" (lack of wear).

    peacockcoins

  • MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,261 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cameonut2011 said:

    @MasonG said:
    No. I suspect NGC wouldn't either, and that they considered the possibility of that happening to be small enough to ignore.

    That takes a huge leap of faith.

    I suppose they have the people there who have the experience to make that leap. Or maybe they're just flipping a coin and hoping for the best?

  • opportunityopportunity Posts: 1,047 ✭✭✭✭

    Not going to lie, I would strongly consider throwing that one in the old rock tumbler.

    Early American Copper, Bust and Seated.

  • JWPJWP Posts: 23,913 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Is it a green blarney stone?

    USN & USAF retired 1971-1993
    Successful Transactions with more than 100 Members

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 35,321 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @opportunity said:
    Not going to lie, I would strongly consider throwing that one in the old rock tumbler.

    Please stay away from ancients.

  • Che_GrapesChe_Grapes Posts: 1,884 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I am also in the love this coin camp. Incredible find and congrats!
    And I agree acetone would not help... been there / done that!

  • moursundmoursund Posts: 3,207 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MasonG said:

    @cameonut2011 said:

    @MasonG said:
    No. I suspect NGC wouldn't either, and that they considered the possibility of that happening to be small enough to ignore.

    That takes a huge leap of faith.

    I suppose they have the people there who have the experience to make that leap. Or maybe they're just flipping a coin and hoping for the best?

    Flipping a coin for a quick profit and hoping for the best...

    100th pint of blood donated 7/19/2022 B) . Transactions with WilliamF, Relaxn, LukeMarshal, jclovescoins, braddick, JWP, Weather11am, Fairlaneman, Dscoins, lordmarcovan, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, JimW. God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that who so believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.
  • BarberianBarberian Posts: 3,795 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That's a great find! I don't think it'll deteriorate further. I have a Machin's Mills penny I found metal detecting 35 years ago that I placed in a 2X2, and it hasn't changed at all over 35 years.

    3 rim nicks away from Good
  • bsshog40bsshog40 Posts: 3,925 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It wouldn't bother me at all to have this coin slabbed if I had dug it up. #1 as it being a 1795 coin and #2 for authenticity. Yea it's ugly, but anything below the 1800's would be a cool find for me!

  • JimnightJimnight Posts: 10,846 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JimTyler said:

    @Jimnight said:
    I wouldn't be interested in a coin that has corrosion like that.

    You wouldn’t pay $1.00 ? $2.00 ? There is always a price something would sell.

    There is no place in my collection for corroded coins. Not interested.

  • MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,261 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @moursund said:

    @MasonG said:

    @cameonut2011 said:

    @MasonG said:
    No. I suspect NGC wouldn't either, and that they considered the possibility of that happening to be small enough to ignore.

    That takes a huge leap of faith.

    I suppose they have the people there who have the experience to make that leap. Or maybe they're just flipping a coin and hoping for the best?

    Flipping a coin for a quick profit and hoping for the best...

    I'm pretty sure the graders aren't allowed to grade their own coins.

  • moursundmoursund Posts: 3,207 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MasonG said:

    @moursund said:

    @MasonG said:

    @cameonut2011 said:

    @MasonG said:
    No. I suspect NGC wouldn't either, and that they considered the possibility of that happening to be small enough to ignore.

    That takes a huge leap of faith.

    I suppose they have the people there who have the experience to make that leap. Or maybe they're just flipping a coin and hoping for the best?

    Flipping a coin for a quick profit and hoping for the best...

    I'm pretty sure the graders aren't allowed to grade their own coins.

    I wonder if they have to go through scans and pat downs and metal detectors every time they enter or leave work, to make sure they aren't bringing in or leaving with coins...

    100th pint of blood donated 7/19/2022 B) . Transactions with WilliamF, Relaxn, LukeMarshal, jclovescoins, braddick, JWP, Weather11am, Fairlaneman, Dscoins, lordmarcovan, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, JimW. God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that who so believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.
  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,169 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 26, 2021 9:34AM

    @moursund said:

    @MasonG said:

    @moursund said:

    @MasonG said:

    @cameonut2011 said:

    @MasonG said:
    No. I suspect NGC wouldn't either, and that they considered the possibility of that happening to be small enough to ignore.

    That takes a huge leap of faith.

    I suppose they have the people there who have the experience to make that leap. Or maybe they're just flipping a coin and hoping for the best?

    Flipping a coin for a quick profit and hoping for the best...

    I'm pretty sure the graders aren't allowed to grade their own coins.

    I wonder if they have to go through scans and pat downs and metal detectors every time they enter or leave work, to make sure they aren't bringing in or leaving with coins...

    What would be the point assuming the goal is to submit your own coin? Just get a buddy to submit for you.

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,169 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @bsshog40 said:
    It wouldn't bother me at all to have this coin slabbed if I had dug it up. #1 as it being a 1795 coin and #2 for authenticity. Yea it's ugly, but anything below the 1800's would be a cool find for me!

    I don’t disagree. I just think it would be a better idea to slab it as merely being genuine rather than offering a grade opinion.

  • thefinnthefinn Posts: 2,657 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @gumby1234 said:

    @MsMorrisine said:
    Acetone bath will do nothing for verdigris

    Then a regular coin dip. Something to remove that crud.

    Methylene chloride or chloroform.

    thefinn
  • moursundmoursund Posts: 3,207 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cameonut2011 said:

    @moursund said:

    @MasonG said:

    @moursund said:

    @MasonG said:

    @cameonut2011 said:

    @MasonG said:
    No. I suspect NGC wouldn't either, and that they considered the possibility of that happening to be small enough to ignore.

    That takes a huge leap of faith.

    I suppose they have the people there who have the experience to make that leap. Or maybe they're just flipping a coin and hoping for the best?

    Flipping a coin for a quick profit and hoping for the best...

    I'm pretty sure the graders aren't allowed to grade their own coins.

    I wonder if they have to go through scans and pat downs and metal detectors every time they enter or leave work, to make sure they aren't bringing in or leaving with coins...

    What would be the point assuming the goal is to submit your own coin? Just get a buddy to submit for you.

    The point would (conceivably) be to keep all coins out of the pipeline, except those that have been submitted.
    So the grader couldn't create some "ms70" moderns or whatever, and would have to resort to slabbing dead bugs.

    100th pint of blood donated 7/19/2022 B) . Transactions with WilliamF, Relaxn, LukeMarshal, jclovescoins, braddick, JWP, Weather11am, Fairlaneman, Dscoins, lordmarcovan, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, JimW. God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that who so believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.
  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,169 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @moursund said:

    @cameonut2011 said:

    @moursund said:

    @MasonG said:

    @moursund said:

    @MasonG said:

    @cameonut2011 said:

    @MasonG said:
    No. I suspect NGC wouldn't either, and that they considered the possibility of that happening to be small enough to ignore.

    That takes a huge leap of faith.

    I suppose they have the people there who have the experience to make that leap. Or maybe they're just flipping a coin and hoping for the best?

    Flipping a coin for a quick profit and hoping for the best...

    I'm pretty sure the graders aren't allowed to grade their own coins.

    I wonder if they have to go through scans and pat downs and metal detectors every time they enter or leave work, to make sure they aren't bringing in or leaving with coins...

    What would be the point assuming the goal is to submit your own coin? Just get a buddy to submit for you.

    The point would (conceivably) be to keep all coins out of the pipeline, except those that have been submitted.
    So the grader couldn't create some "ms70" moderns or whatever, and would have to resort to slabbing dead bugs.

    I doubt a professional grader would risk his reputation on chunk change, and the most valuable issues/exemplars are often memorable. It wouldn’t be easy to pull off.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 35,321 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @thefinn said:

    @gumby1234 said:

    @MsMorrisine said:
    Acetone bath will do nothing for verdigris

    Then a regular coin dip. Something to remove that crud.

    Methylene chloride or chloroform.

    Won't touch it. It's oxidation of the surface not organic dirt.

  • moursundmoursund Posts: 3,207 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cameonut2011 said:

    @moursund said:

    @cameonut2011 said:

    @moursund said:

    @MasonG said:

    @moursund said:

    @MasonG said:

    @cameonut2011 said:

    @MasonG said:
    No. I suspect NGC wouldn't either, and that they considered the possibility of that happening to be small enough to ignore.

    That takes a huge leap of faith.

    I suppose they have the people there who have the experience to make that leap. Or maybe they're just flipping a coin and hoping for the best?

    Flipping a coin for a quick profit and hoping for the best...

    I'm pretty sure the graders aren't allowed to grade their own coins.

    I wonder if they have to go through scans and pat downs and metal detectors every time they enter or leave work, to make sure they aren't bringing in or leaving with coins...

    What would be the point assuming the goal is to submit your own coin? Just get a buddy to submit for you.

    The point would (conceivably) be to keep all coins out of the pipeline, except those that have been submitted.
    So the grader couldn't create some "ms70" moderns or whatever, and would have to resort to slabbing dead bugs.

    I doubt a professional grader would risk his reputation on chunk change, and the most valuable issues/exemplars are often memorable. It wouldn’t be easy to pull off.

    Agreed... Tpg likely has pretty good security to keep coins from walking... And they must do photos early in the grading process to minimize the opportunity for swaps.

    100th pint of blood donated 7/19/2022 B) . Transactions with WilliamF, Relaxn, LukeMarshal, jclovescoins, braddick, JWP, Weather11am, Fairlaneman, Dscoins, lordmarcovan, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, JimW. God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that who so believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 24,238 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I wonder if they have to go through scans and pat downs and metal detectors every time they enter or leave work, to make sure they aren't bringing in or leaving with coins...

    The point would (conceivably) be to keep all coins out of the pipeline, except those that have been submitted.
    So the grader couldn't create some "ms70" moderns or whatever, and would have to resort to slabbing dead bugs.

    I doubt a professional grader would risk his reputation on chunk change, and the most valuable issues/exemplars are often memorable. It wouldn’t be easy to pull off.

    Agreed... Tpg likely has pretty good security to keep coins from walking... And they must do photos early in the grading process to minimize the opportunity for swaps.

    Am I naive in believing the graders hired by PCGS are also simply honest people that even left without security measures would not steal your coins?

    peacockcoins

  • bsshog40bsshog40 Posts: 3,925 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I hear when the coins come in for grading that they first throw them in to a coinstar so they can get the correct total. And they only keep the rejects! :D

  • moursundmoursund Posts: 3,207 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @braddick said:

    I wonder if they have to go through scans and pat downs and metal detectors every time they enter or leave work, to make sure they aren't bringing in or leaving with coins...

    The point would (conceivably) be to keep all coins out of the pipeline, except those that have been submitted.
    So the grader couldn't create some "ms70" moderns or whatever, and would have to resort to slabbing dead bugs.

    I doubt a professional grader would risk his reputation on chunk change, and the most valuable issues/exemplars are often memorable. It wouldn’t be easy to pull off.

    Agreed... Tpg likely has pretty good security to keep coins from walking... And they must do photos early in the grading process to minimize the opportunity for swaps.

    Am I naive in believing the graders hired by PCGS are also simply honest people that even left without security measures would not steal your coins?

    How would PCGS know that? And if you had a business involving small portable objects worth many thousands of dollars each, would you not put in security to protect them?

    100th pint of blood donated 7/19/2022 B) . Transactions with WilliamF, Relaxn, LukeMarshal, jclovescoins, braddick, JWP, Weather11am, Fairlaneman, Dscoins, lordmarcovan, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, JimW. God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that who so believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 24,238 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @moursund said:

    @braddick said:

    Am I naive in believing the graders hired by PCGS are also simply honest people that even left without security measures would not steal your coins?

    How would PCGS know that? And if you had a business involving small portable objects worth many thousands of dollars each, would you not put in security to protect them?


    Even if you could completely get away with it, would YOU steal coins as a PCGS grader?
    If your answer is "NO" then hire another ten or so graders just as honest as you.
    Problem solved.

    peacockcoins

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,435 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 27, 2021 9:20AM

    @braddick said:

    @moursund said:

    @braddick said:

    Am I naive in believing the graders hired by PCGS are also simply honest people that even left without security measures would not steal your coins?

    How would PCGS know that? And if you had a business involving small portable objects worth many thousands of dollars each, would you not put in security to protect them?


    Even if you could completely get away with it, would YOU steal coins as a PCGS grader?
    If your answer is "NO" then hire another ten or so graders just as honest as you.
    Problem solved.

    I imagine they vet their employees quite thoroughly. Also, I imagine they have to sign a statement that they promise to not steal any coins.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • moursundmoursund Posts: 3,207 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @braddick said:

    @moursund said:

    @braddick said:

    Am I naive in believing the graders hired by PCGS are also simply honest people that even left without security measures would not steal your coins?

    How would PCGS know that? And if you had a business involving small portable objects worth many thousands of dollars each, would you not put in security to protect them?


    Even if you could completely get away with it, would YOU steal coins as a PCGS grader?
    If your answer is "NO" then hire another ten or so graders just as honest as you.
    Problem solved.

    Not sure if you are being completely serious, but even with background checks and interviews, how do you know if someone is as honest as you are? Polygraph? Magic?

    100th pint of blood donated 7/19/2022 B) . Transactions with WilliamF, Relaxn, LukeMarshal, jclovescoins, braddick, JWP, Weather11am, Fairlaneman, Dscoins, lordmarcovan, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, JimW. God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that who so believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 33,715 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Are there any known examples of small cents rejected due to verdigris?

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • jonrunsjonruns Posts: 1,197 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If I were the guy that found it I would keep definitely keep it as a memory of a cool detecting find. It's not every day that you find a coin that is almost as old as our country.

  • braddickbraddick Posts: 24,238 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @moursund said:

    @braddick said:

    @moursund said:

    @braddick said:

    Am I naive in believing the graders hired by PCGS are also simply honest people that even left without security measures would not steal your coins?

    How would PCGS know that? And if you had a business involving small portable objects worth many thousands of dollars each, would you not put in security to protect them?


    Even if you could completely get away with it, would YOU steal coins as a PCGS grader?
    If your answer is "NO" then hire another ten or so graders just as honest as you.
    Problem solved.

    Not sure if you are being completely serious, but even with background checks and interviews, how do you know if someone is as honest as you are? Polygraph? Magic?

    Experience and past behavior.
    Most of the seasoned members here on this coin forum are honest enough to work for PCGS and not steal other people's coins.
    You are not an anomaly. A background check and an interview would determine trustworthiness.

    I believe most people are good regardless of all the bad we read of others.

    peacockcoins

  • stevebensteveben Posts: 4,620 ✭✭✭✭✭

    this coin would make a good pocket piece

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 35,321 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @braddick said:

    @moursund said:

    @braddick said:

    @moursund said:

    @braddick said:

    Am I naive in believing the graders hired by PCGS are also simply honest people that even left without security measures would not steal your coins?

    How would PCGS know that? And if you had a business involving small portable objects worth many thousands of dollars each, would you not put in security to protect them?


    Even if you could completely get away with it, would YOU steal coins as a PCGS grader?
    If your answer is "NO" then hire another ten or so graders just as honest as you.
    Problem solved.

    Not sure if you are being completely serious, but even with background checks and interviews, how do you know if someone is as honest as you are? Polygraph? Magic?

    Experience and past behavior.
    Most of the seasoned members here on this coin forum are honest enough to work for PCGS and not steal other people's coins.
    You are not an anomaly. A background check and an interview would determine trustworthiness.

    I believe most people are good regardless of all the bad we read of others.

    I totally agree.

    And we're not talking about minimum wage employees. You aren't going to risk a 6 figure job to make a couple thousand on the side.

  • moursundmoursund Posts: 3,207 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @braddick said:

    @moursund said:

    @braddick said:

    @moursund said:

    @braddick said:

    Am I naive in believing the graders hired by PCGS are also simply honest people that even left without security measures would not steal your coins?

    How would PCGS know that? And if you had a business involving small portable objects worth many thousands of dollars each, would you not put in security to protect them?


    Even if you could completely get away with it, would YOU steal coins as a PCGS grader?
    If your answer is "NO" then hire another ten or so graders just as honest as you.
    Problem solved.

    Not sure if you are being completely serious, but even with background checks and interviews, how do you know if someone is as honest as you are? Polygraph? Magic?

    Experience and past behavior.
    Most of the seasoned members here on this coin forum are honest enough to work for PCGS and not steal other people's coins.
    You are not an anomaly. A background check and an interview would determine trustworthiness.

    I believe most people are good regardless of all the bad we read of others.

    I totally agree.

    And we're not talking about minimum wage employees. You aren't going to risk a 6 figure job to make a couple thousand on the side.

    Yeah... And maybe when you get hired they only let you near moderns for a while, sort of probationary period... 😉

    100th pint of blood donated 7/19/2022 B) . Transactions with WilliamF, Relaxn, LukeMarshal, jclovescoins, braddick, JWP, Weather11am, Fairlaneman, Dscoins, lordmarcovan, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, JimW. God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that who so believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.
  • burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Another example to be surprised it was authenticated and slabbed...

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 35,321 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @burfle23 said:
    Another example to be surprised it was authenticated and slabbed...

    Straight grade or details? Damage or planchet flaws?

  • burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭✭✭

    "Genuine".

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,169 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @burfle23 said:
    "Genuine".

    Genuine alone doesn’t bother me as it is true even if the coin deteriorates. It’s the grading, even a details grade, that bothers me.

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