Census for the 1876 Liberty Bell / Independence Hall silver So-Called Dollar - HK-23

Zoins

HK-23 is a silver So-Called Dollar issued for the 1876 Centennial Exhibition in Philadelphia. It was issued by John H. Diehl and designed F.C. Key & Sons.

Hibler & Kappen list this as a R8 which means 1-3 specimens on the Sheldon Scale.

Here are two specimens I've run across, 1 NGC and 1 PCGS. NGC has 2 listed in the census but I haven't run across photos for a second NGC so I don't know if the second NGC and the PCGS coins are the same or not.

Anyone know of specimens other than the two below?

1876 Centennial Liberty Bell / Independence Hall So-Called Dollar
Silver - HK-23
Designed by F.C. Key & Sons - issued by John H. Diehl
NGC MS63 POP 0/2/0
Ex. Alfred & Jacque Ostheimer; W. David Perkins @WDP

1876 Centennial Liberty Bell / Independence Hall So-Called Dollar
Silver - HK-23
Design by F.C. Key & Sons - issued by John H. Diehl
PCGS MS61 POP 0/1/0

jonathanb

So-Called Dollars use the Fuld rarity scale. R-8 is "5 to 10".

Looking at the mintages reported for other medals from that period, I think it's very likely that either 10 or 25 specimens were struck originally. Even if you agree with that, the next question is how many survived...

Zoins

@jonathanb said:
So-Called Dollars use the Fuld rarity scale. R-8 is "5 to 10".

Looking at the mintages reported for other medals from that period, I think it's very likely that either 10 or 25 specimens were struck originally.

Good to know!

Even if you agree with that, the next question is how many survived...

Very good question! Are you aware of any other specimens? I find it fascinating that there are so many silver medals listed on the 1876 Centennial page below but I don't get to see many of them.

https://www.so-calleddollars.com/Events/US_Centennial.html

keets

I find it fascinating that there are so many silver medals listed on the 1876 Centennial page below but I don't get to see many of them.

I have heard numerous accounts of long-time SC$ collectors buying medals in the 1970-1990 timeframe for $5-$10 apiece. understanding that these probably net more than an ounce, would it surprise you that they could have been melted during the Hunt Brothers spike, another run in the late-eighties or in the mid-nineties?? when Silver reached $50/ozt. in that 1980 run the buyers were paying about $32.

I should mention that I had several Silver Mint Medals from the National Commemorative Series. they were dead in the water, no buyers at all, not even John Dean who wrote the book and maintains the website dedicated to them. anything I could do to make them marketable would cost me money. when Silver made it to almost $30 I sold them as bullion.

it is my contention that many, many examples of scarce/rare Exonumia hit the melting pot during the times I mentioned. it is only the past 20 year period which has increased their value.

jonathanb

@Zoins said:
Very good question! Are you aware of any other specimens? I find it fascinating that there are so many silver medals listed on the 1876 Centennial page below but I don't get to see many of them.

I have auction records for 7 besides the one just sold. The last two on this list are the same specimen -- the first one pictured above -- and I assume there may be other duplicates (and maybe typo or two) also:

• NASCA 6/6/1978, lot 3907
• Kurt R. Kruger 9/12/1989, lot 2315
• Kurt R. Kruger 9/12/1989, lot 2316
• Presidential 11/2002, lot 328
• Presidential 6/2008, lot 128
• Jeff Shevlin 8/13/2010, lot 10
• Stack's Bowers 2/5/2015, lot 156

I'm sure there are a lot more if you search the NNP. Finding them in the records is another story...

In comparison, I also have 7 records each for HK-81a and HK-83a, two other Centennial medals in silver.

Zoins

@keets said:
I find it fascinating that there are so many silver medals listed on the 1876 Centennial page below but I don't get to see many of them.

I have heard numerous accounts of long-time SC$ collectors buying medals in the 1970-1990 timeframe for $5-$10 apiece. understanding that these probably net more than an ounce, would it surprise you that they could have been melted during the Hunt Brothers spike, another run in the late-eighties or in the mid-nineties?? when Silver reached $50/ozt. in that 1980 run the buyers were paying about $32.

I should mention that I had several Silver Mint Medals from the National Commemorative Series. they were dead in the water, no buyers at all, not even John Dean who wrote the book and maintains the website dedicated to them. anything I could do to make them marketable would cost me money. when Silver made it to almost $30 I sold them as bullion.

it is my contention that many, many examples of scarce/rare Exonumia hit the melting pot during the times I mentioned. it is only the past 20 year period which has increased their value.

Good to know @keets! It’s interesting to think of these as only being worth bullion pieces, even up to the 70s and later.

I wonder what caused the change. The last 20 years certainly saw the rise of the Internet and eBay. I wonder if those are what caused the change in interest?

Zoins

@jonathanb said:

@Zoins said:
Very good question! Are you aware of any other specimens? I find it fascinating that there are so many silver medals listed on the 1876 Centennial page below but I don't get to see many of them.

I have auction records for 7 besides the one just sold. The last two on this list are the same specimen -- the first one pictured above -- and I assume there may be other duplicates (and maybe typo or two) also:

• NASCA 6/6/1978, lot 3907
• Kurt R. Kruger 9/12/1989, lot 2315
• Kurt R. Kruger 9/12/1989, lot 2316
• Presidential 11/2002, lot 328
• Presidential 6/2008, lot 128
• Jeff Shevlin 8/13/2010, lot 10
• Stack's Bowers 2/5/2015, lot 156

I'm sure there are a lot more if you search the NNP. Finding them in the records is another story...

In comparison, I also have 7 records each for HK-81a and HK-83a, two other Centennial medals in silver.

Great info Jon! It's good to know these are out there. HK-81a and HK-83a are rare as well. Here are some pops:

• HK-23 (3): 1x PCGS MS61, 2x NGC MS63
• HK-81a (3): 1x PCGS MS63, 2x NGC MS62
• HK-83a (3): 1x PCGS MS63, 1x NGC MS63, 1x NGC MS62

I never met Joe Levine but he was a giant in the hobby, as is Jeff. I don't know much about NASCA and Kurt yet, but will look them up.

Here are some store cards for Kurt and Joe:

Source: soulone69

Source: stevehayden

Pioneer1

@Zoins said:
Here are two specimens I've run across, 1 NGC and 1 PCGS. NGC has 2 listed in the census but I haven't run across photos for a second NGC so I don't know if the second NGC and the PCGS coins are the same or not.

It's not. I own the other NGC MS63. Here's the photo (toning not well captured, need better photos):

I'm surprised the PCGS MS-61 sold for the price it did. I missed the auction but would have bid triple of what it went for. Congrats to the buyer who got a great deal.

jt88

This coin is kind of confused some are white medal and some are silver

Zoins

@jt88 said:
This coin is kind of confused some are white medal and some are silver

These are quite a few So-Called Dollars that come in white metal and silver. After 100 years, it’s a bit easier to visually identify the toned ones when compare to say some things that come in solid gold and gilt. Of course, some of the So-Called Dollars were silver plated, such as the Pilgrim Jubilee piece.