Fascinating mistake by a TPG

gscoins

We all have experienced mistakes being made by TPGs. For example, I had a 1934 German two mark Schiller commemorative that ANACS holdered as a 5 mark. But there's an example on Ebay just now where the TPG (in this case, ICG) got the country wrong!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/313759145792?hash=item490d809f40:g:ziIAAOSwBvBhlvQt

And, as it turned out, so did the seller!

I've never seen this sort of mistake before.

MasonG

I've come across this seller before. He seems to have 100+ new items every day. There is only a title and no description, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that whoever is actually creating the eBay listings is just reading off the slab.

jgenn

You do know that the graders/authenticators are not the ones that type up the labels, right?

John Conduitt

@jgenn said:
You do know that the graders/authenticators are not the ones that type up the labels, right?

I'm not sure that matters. It's poor quality control that undermines the TPG service. It also highlights the limited value of a TPG guarantee. You might pay well over the odds for a rarer coin based on the description. PCGS's guarantee says that:

If the grade determined...is lower than the grade originally assigned...or if the coin is found to be misattributed or non-authentic, PCGS shall pay the current market value...at the originally assigned grade...or the difference [with the] current market value. IT IS UNDERSTOOD THAT PCGS WILL BE THE SOLE DETERMINER OF THE CURRENT MARKET VALUE...AND THAT CURRENT MARKET VALUE IS DEFINED AS...THE PRICE A DEALER WOULD MOST LIKELY HAVE TO PAY TO REPLACE THE COIN. This guarantee shall not apply to any coin as to which an obvious clerical error has been made with respect to the description of the coin.

So PCGS are only guaranteeing the grade and that the coin is genuine, not that it is a genuine example of the coin described on the label. Even then will only pay the price a dealer would 'likely' have to pay for the coin. They will pay out for a misattribution, but not if it is an 'obvious clerical error'. What is 'obvious'? Presumably, if you bought a coin believing the description, then it wasn't obvious. But the TPG decide if it was 'obvious' - and they are experts, who won't have the same standard of 'obvious' as most people.

The TPG would probably correct the label if you happen to be a paid up member, but that isn't much comfort.

I had a coin where the monarch on the label was wrong...fortunately, I knew this before I bought it (so it was 'obvious'), and fortunately, the auction house (as a paid up member of the TPG) was able to send it to be corrected before sending it to me. If they hadn't and I wasn't a member, the TPG would not have corrected it.

amwldcoin

Everything misattributed is a clerical error. Ask me how I know!

@JohnConduitt said:

@jgenn said:
You do know that the graders/authenticators are not the ones that type up the labels, right?

I'm not sure that matters. It's poor quality control that undermines the TPG service. It also highlights the limited value of a TPG guarantee. You might pay well over the odds for a rarer coin based on the description. PCGS's guarantee says that:

If the grade determined...is lower than the grade originally assigned...or if the coin is found to be misattributed or non-authentic, PCGS shall pay the current market value...at the originally assigned grade...or the difference [with the] current market value. IT IS UNDERSTOOD THAT PCGS WILL BE THE SOLE DETERMINER OF THE CURRENT MARKET VALUE...AND THAT CURRENT MARKET VALUE IS DEFINED AS...THE PRICE A DEALER WOULD MOST LIKELY HAVE TO PAY TO REPLACE THE COIN. This guarantee shall not apply to any coin as to which an obvious clerical error has been made with respect to the description of the coin.

So PCGS are only guaranteeing the grade and that the coin is genuine, not that it is a genuine example of the coin described on the label. Even then will only pay the price a dealer would 'likely' have to pay for the coin. They will pay out for a misattribution, but not if it is an 'obvious clerical error'. What is 'obvious'? Presumably, if you bought a coin believing the description, then it wasn't obvious. But the TPG decide if it was 'obvious' - and they are experts, who won't have the same standard of 'obvious' as most people.

The TPG would probably correct the label if you happen to be a paid up member, but that isn't much comfort.

I had a coin where the monarch on the label was wrong...fortunately, I knew this before I bought it (so it was 'obvious'), and fortunately, the auction house (as a paid up member of the TPG) was able to send it to be corrected before sending it to me. If they hadn't and I wasn't a member, the TPG would not have corrected it.

syl

Well, ICG is not in the upper tier of TPG's. I guess you get what you pay for (sometimes)

MasonG

@syl said:
Well, ICG is not in the upper tier of TPG's. I guess you get what you pay for (sometimes)

As far as getting what you pay for goes... a few years back, out of a group of about 100 Mexican republic 8 reales sent to PCGS, three were slabbed with the wrong date, mm or assayer.

Just sayin'.

Stork

I've sent blatantly wrong dates (as in, the wrong EMPEROR, if not actual regnal year) to both PCGS and NGC. Poop happens. I had a basic essai listed as a piefort essai on a PCGS slab for example too. I've not noticed any worse trend from P or N. In any case, both can make mistakes but neither do frequently. Both were very stand up in correcting. I recall telling a forum member that NGC had made a date mistake and it was one that was very much not in his favor. He later told me NGC made good on the financial cost IIRC.

YQQ

A few years ago I purchased an NGC graded high end Canadian coin from a European Auctioneer. It is a well known and scarce $1 variety and is much in demand. It was designated by the TPG as the very regular issue coin.
When I brought it to the TPG's attention, the very snippy and unprofessional answer was: you can always send it back and our experts will look at it again! who pays for the expenses to ship from Canada? you guessed it...
i did not or will not send it. But I scrutinize their slabs now with extra caution.

Namvet69

Confucius say....... No one is perfect.