What reason(s) keeps PCGS from grading ancient coins?
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As this is the World & Ancient Coins Forum, I wonder why PCGS has still not provided certifying/grading ancient coins. Both NGC & ANACS have been doing this for many years, what could possibly be reasons for not adding this service and revenue for PCGS?
Is it a lack of qualified graders?
Do they believe there aren't enough collectors interested?
Is there not enough of an ancient coin market in general to warrant the service?
Do they follow some dealers/collectors' philosophy that they're turned off by slabbing ancients?
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Because they know the majority of us dislike ancients in slabs so why waste time and $ if were just going to crack the plastic trash and free them as they are meant to be!
Slabbed ancients have brought a lot of new people into that arena.
I suspect PCGS is considering branching into it based upon their recent survey. Probably trying to gauge demand before going to the large expense of ramping up.
I've noticed during the NY auctions, the room is full of bidders during the ancients section of an auction, then clears out when the general world coin section begins. It's rather comical, but that must tell you something about the ancients market in general (not the slabbed ancients market however). I expect most of them are dealers bidding for inventory/clients as the spreads on ancients are pretty big.
Maybe the spreads would tighten if slabbed ancients really takes off?
Slabbing ancients requires getting people who are VERY knowledgeable in the field and are able to spot counterfeits and modern reproductions, some of which are produced using the same methods as used in ancient times. There aren't many of these people around and they will not work cheap. These people aren't going to be in a league with graders of modern NCLT issues.
Many serious collectors and dealers of ancients do not like slabs. This is not new. I recall a discussion with the owner of Pegassi Coins about 15 years ago (he is now deceased) in which he railed against slabbed ancients and the "authentication" they received. The last time I saw him, a few years back at a Michigan State Numismatic Society coin show he had not changed his opinion at all.
When I collected ancients I had both raw and slabbed examples at various times. I preferred them raw.
The margins on ancients are very high. This isn't a market for people who are used the the margins seen on things like common Morgan Dollars.
I've observed how these preferences have changed over time. Stacks was one of the last big dealers who embraced slabs in general - for US coins, then expanded to World coins. And I'm seeing more dealers that will sell their ancients in NGC slabs, because it offers the security, authenticity, third party grading opinion, etc.
Moreover, it would appear that some popular areas of ancients bring a premium at auction when slabbed. (e.g. Shekels of Tyre). Parenthetically, I think NGC's grading of ancients is too liberal.
Would this be the real problem for PCGS? That their grading standard would not be as lucrative for sellers of slabs?
I also don't like slabs. Does that mean I won't buy a slabbed ancient? No.
Will I crack it out? No.
The reason the auction companies have really embraced slabs (overall, not just ancients) is because it takes the issue of authenticity (and to a lesser degree attribution) out of their hands. Thus, buyers cannot return a coin due to inauthenticity but have to deal with the slab company instead.
To me (and I assume to the auction firms) this is the greatest deal ever devised. They never have to deal with returns for the (discounted) cost of a slab! And you know how painful returns are for any business, let alone one where the seller isn't the owner of the item. It's cheap insurance as the saying goes. And the seller pays for it!
So probably simply due to the auction houses, slabbed ancients will continue to improve and eventually take over.
And with all the auction houses on board, collectors will gradually accept that all coins should be slabbed, which makes the slabbing companies happy. It's happening now folks.
Here's an excerpt from Shanna Schmidt's email today:
NGSA has taken the liberty to appeal to the customers that buy encapsulated coins by giving the NGC grade with strike and surface included. It isn’t clear if all the coins are encapsulated but I would guess that they are sold with photo certificates. This has been a growing wave in the sale of ancient coins. The interest in ancients from ancillary collecting interests such as U.S. coinage, in which slabbing is commonplace, has begun to become more common in the ancient coin auctions. While the coins are most raw they do come accompanied with a photo certificate from NGC which allows the buyer to rely on a NGC grade (if that is important to them).... Please do remember though that a NGC grade does not equate to a certificate of authenticity. This has been a big reason why I don't want to switch to selling encapsulated coins. It is simply a third party opinion on the grade of a coin.
Both Barry Murphey & David Vagi don't provide 100% authenticity when it comes to ancients. They are one of the best in the business when it comes to ancients but 100% isn't a guarantee.
They both absolutely hate seeing articles that claim articles stating otherwise.
Barry posts on cointalk on a regular basis so it's repeated often.
Well then, that would be a strong reason why it isn't good. How can anyone authenticate a slabbed ancient once it is in the slab? I didn't know that they do not guarantee authenticity like they do with non-ancients.
If PCGS entered the market with some form of authenticity guarantee or assurance, that would put it at some advantage one assumes. That advantage would come at some cost, I would guess.
When it comes ancients grading is not particularly difficult. It is the authentication that is difficult. I regard grading without authentication to be a waste of money.
Only Heritage and Stack's Bowers are pushing slabs for every coin imaginable, since it's part of their business model - generate hype around 'top pops' and registry sets to push up prices for incredibly marginal differences that require an expert to discern. It reminds me of the hype De Beers created around diamonds and diamond purity - you need special lenses and a lifetime of experience to differentiate them. It's the emperor's new clothes.
Registry sets and 'top pops' are about collecting slabs, not coins - every ancient coin collector knows there's so much more to an ancient coin that a grade. It becomes a less important consideration. But many US buyers moving from US coins to ancients and medievals have the benefits of slabs so ingrained, they can't trust ancient coins without one. So there is a sizable market.
Yet it isn't like collecting US coins. Ancients weren't churned out identical by machines. The grading companies cannot offer a guarantee of authenticity for ancients. This means neither collectors or auction houses have that safety net - the driver for slabbing US coins. You might as well simply buy from a reputable specialist dealer (who will guarantee authenticity) or auction house. Worse, it's all but impossible to check the authenticity of a coin in a slab. You can't see the edge (crucial in detecting fakes) and the TPGs (inexplicably) don't even list the weight of a coin on the slab.
Moreover, the 'grade' for an ancient is necessarily even more vague and subjective than for a milled coin. Ancients are handmade, so are individual. This means collectors won't value grading as much - they may value it, but not as much as for US coins. The premium will therefore be less. So the range of coins worth slabbing is less. This is especially true in the countries where most ancients originate - there are hardly any slabbing companies (only PCGS in Paris, and NGC in Munich and London), so it costs a huge amount to slab a coin just in return postage. Add this to the lack of authentication, and slabbing is less likely to spread.
Collectors won't accept an ancient coin should be slabbed - because there's no reason it should. Still, every business should evaluate opportunities, and some people will always want to slab anything.
Sedwick is doing it too. And unfairly, I might add. They say "highest graded at NGC" but conveniently leave out the finer ones at PCGS (for example). And many dealers do the same thing.
I've seen the NGC graded ancients for sale and cannot help but think of the whole graded micro-O Morgan fiasco - the instance where an apparently early 20th century counterfeit operation succeeded in circulating forged Morgan dollars that went so far as getting authenticated and graded and put into TPG plastic.
I am sure it is far easier for a forger to manufacture an ancient using the tech of that time than it is to forge a Morgan dollar coin and circulate it and have it recognized as authentic for 60+ years.
Probably not enough profit in it for them.
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