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PCGS and NGC Copper Coin Encapsulation Guarantee

I had been looking at a 1914-D AU58 graded and encapsulated by NGC. I noticed this info on that page:

I got curious and went to the PCGS website and found this info:

I had never really given much thought to the changing of the coin after being graded and encapsulated. While I know PCGS and NGC cannot guarantee that sort of change, it does make me wonder if a coin has ever dropped a grade due to this.

Collector of Circulated Winged Liberty Head Dimes (Mercury Dimes)

Comments

  • TurtleCatTurtleCat Posts: 4,628 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Coins have definitely turned in holders either due to prior doctoring or storage. It’s one reason why both services have narrowed what they guarantee over the years. The way I think of it, they guarantee authenticity and any egregious grading mistakes and that’s about it.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 14,025 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @NumismaticJunkie said:
    I had been looking at a 1914-D AU58 graded and encapsulated by NGC. I noticed this info on that page:

    I got curious and went to the PCGS website and found this info:

    I had never really given much thought to the changing of the coin after being graded and encapsulated. While I know PCGS and NGC cannot guarantee that sort of change, it does make me wonder if a coin has ever dropped a grade due to this.

    Many copper coins have deteriorated and/or changed in color (from RD to RB or BN or from RB to BN). Of course, unless the coins are re-submitted to the grading companies, such changes aren’t reflected on the grading labels.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,169 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 7, 2021 7:29AM

    PCGS did guarantee copper color and then it retroactively killed the copper color guarantee for all coins traded after January 1, 2010 and put the onus on the submitter to prove it was acquired prior to that date even for old, old holders.

    NGC initially did not guarantee the color or grade of copper or copper nickel coins. This was retroactively amended in 2003 to guarantee the grades and colors for 10 years from the date of encapsulation.

    Edited to add exact dates from links below and to avoid confusion.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 14,025 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cameonut2011 said:
    PCGS did guarantee copper color until a few years ago (I want to say 2010-2011) and then it retroactively killed the copper color guarantee for all coins traded after a certain date and put the onus on the submitter to prove it was acquired prior to that date even for old, old holders.

    NGC initially did not guarantee the color or grade of copper or copper nickel coins. This was retroactively amended circa 2000 to guarantee the grades and colors for 10 years from the date of encapsulation.

    Here’s the PCGS copper guarantee - see near bottom of linked page:
    https://www.pcgs.com/news/pcgs-grading-guarantee-update

    And here’s the NGC guarantee referenced above by @cameonut2011
    https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/107/

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,376 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 7, 2021 7:21AM

    Copper is very reactive.

    This John Jay Pittman coin went from PCGS SP66 RD to PCGS SP65 RB from 2010 to 2019. In the process, it also went from $402,500.00 to $312,000.00.

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