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Buying a collection from a non-collector - what's fair?

I'm speculating. I may be in a position to buy a collection of a friend of a friend. Lots of presumptions here.... I'm presuming that these are mostly silver coins, circulated, mostly 20th century. Presuming that someone has put them aside from what they pulled from circulation back in the fifties and sixties, expecting there's little in the way of XF let alone AU. Presuming that there is unlikely anything key or rare here. Presuming that no one has cleaned them to shine them up. Also presuming that the owner doesn't want to dillydally on itemizing and making lists. And also presuming that the face value is in the range of four to five hundred dollars.

So my question is what should I consider to be fair? Take it off their hands for how many times face value? I don't want to insult them by saying it's just junk silver (even if that's what it is), I want to do better than what a local shop might offer since I don't have their overhead costs.

What do you consider to be a fair ballpark dollar per dollar price for a lot of unresearched circulated silver coins?

Thanks,
Jim

Comments

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,046 ✭✭✭✭✭

    19x Face.

    Local market maker is paying 20x face which means a local dealer is probably paying 17x or 18x on a half bag quantity.

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,996 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Lots of presumptions too many to say what’s fair.

    When asked I don’t recall anyone here who made inquiries that provided a list when asked if they would. That’s one presumption that I’d say is safe.

    I wouldn’t bank on non-cleaned coins.

    Lastly I wouldn’t presume you’ve got a built in trust factor as a friend of a friend. While absolutely not universal, there have been stories of people passing on individual buy and going with a coin store despite the coin store offering less.

    You’d be surprised what has walked in here. Mostly common stuff not worth more than silver value, but we had a collection that had bust coin in it and some morgans among other things. Then there was the early 1800’s half eagle worth maybe 10 grand. But most stuff we see is common silver and common coins.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 3, 2021 6:11PM

    Instead of Junk silver just say they are only worth the value of the silver. You do know if you want to be "fair" you have to go through them and make sure there aren't any better dates.

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,996 ✭✭✭✭✭

    We just had a thread on valuing 40% silver.

    Perhaps someone here can remember the title of the thread.

    Valuing 40% and war nickels is tough as they are unloved in the market.

    Maybe what was discussed on that thread can be rehashed here.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • streeterstreeter Posts: 4,312 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ask him what he wants.

    I'd pay probably. .715x spot. If he needs more than that let him go find it.

    Have a nice day
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,046 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 3, 2021 6:20PM

    @streeter said:
    Ask him what he wants.

    I'd pay probably. .715x spot. If he needs more than that let him go find it.

    Wholesale is (spot+$4) x .715

    .715xspot is below wholesale

  • streeterstreeter Posts: 4,312 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @streeter said:
    Ask him what he wants.

    I'd pay probably. .715x spot. If he needs more than that let him go find it.

    Wholesale is (spot+$4) x .715

    .715xspot is below wholesale

    What's your point?

    Have a nice day
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,046 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @streeter said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @streeter said:
    Ask him what he wants.

    I'd pay probably. .715x spot. If he needs more than that let him go find it.

    Wholesale is (spot+$4) x .715

    .715xspot is below wholesale

    What's your point?

    Lol. None really.

    Just that the OP said he wanted to pay more than a dealer not less.

  • streeterstreeter Posts: 4,312 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 3, 2021 6:30PM

    NOVEMBER 3, 2021

    BUYING 90% SILVER DIMES & QUARTERS PAY SPOT + 2.50 X .715 X FACE

    That's wholesale buy. If the guy wants to pay more, more power to him. Rookie seller IMHO will have to be very careful getting what you or I could turn it over for. And couldn't.

    $500 is half a bag. $9,000.

    Have a nice day
  • jessewvujessewvu Posts: 5,065 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What I’ve done in situations like this is sit them down and evaluate the collection as if I had no interest in buying it. I’d give them the fair market value and let them know where they could sell it. I’d let them know if they were interested in selling it to me, to call me at a later date. If/when they call, I give them a price that would make it worth my time. They then have the information they need to make a decision. If they accept, everyone is happy, if they don’t, everyone is happy.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,447 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @streeter said:
    NOVEMBER 3, 2021

    BUYING 90% SILVER DIMES & QUARTERS PAY SPOT + 2.50 X .715 X FACE

    That's wholesale buy. If the guy wants to pay more, more power to him. Rookie seller IMHO will have to be very careful getting what you or I could turn it over for. And couldn't.

    $500 is half a bag. $9,000.

    That’s a wholesale buy and some are noticeably higher or lower than others.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 8,955 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I agree with using the appropriate words to describe silver. First, depending on the quantity of coins, are you going to be afforded the necessary time to evaluate the collection. Then the cyphering can begin. Good luck. Peace Roy

    BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall, coinsarefun, MichaelDixon, NickPatton, ProfLiz, Twobitcollector,Jesbroken oih82w8, DCW

  • cameonut2011cameonut2011 Posts: 10,167 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:
    A few thoughts...
    If you’re going to offer a fair price - and to your credit, it sounds like you aim to do that - it makes no difference whether the owner is a collector, non-collector or dealer.

    >

    It’s like you read my mind.

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,332 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Fair to you or fair to him? It sounds like this is another seller who just has a hoard of silver coins of little numismatic interest. Your offer should be such so that you make a profit on the deal.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • GazesGazes Posts: 2,315 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:
    A few thoughts...
    If you’re going to offer a fair price - and to your credit, it sounds like you aim to do that - it makes no difference whether the owner is a collector, non-collector or dealer.

    As you mentioned, it probably wouldn’t be a good idea to use the term “junk silver”. But I think it would be fine to call it “90% silver” or “40% silver”, if applicable.

    I’m a big believer in being fair. However, if there’s a local dealer who’s paying a fair price, you don’t need to top it, just because he has overhead and you don’t.

    I agree with most of this except where you state it "makes no difference whether the owner is a collector, non collector or dealer." Specifically I dont think one has to go out of the way to treat a dealer the same as someone who is not a professional. In the law for instance, you have certain obligations when selling a car but those obligations are far less when selling to a dealer since they are presumed to be expert. Similarly if a dealer is in the business of making a profit of buying and selling coins I dont think it is my responsibility to to do his homework for him to ensure a profit and treat him or her as I would a non professional. I'm not encouraging anything misleading or misrepresenting a coin to anyone but I simply dont think I owe the same duty to a dealer as I do a non dealer.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,447 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cameonut2011 said:

    @MFeld said:
    A few thoughts...
    If you’re going to offer a fair price - and to your credit, it sounds like you aim to do that - it makes no difference whether the owner is a collector, non-collector or dealer.

    >

    It’s like you read my mind.

    It's not "like> @Gazes said:

    @MFeld said:
    A few thoughts...
    If you’re going to offer a fair price - and to your credit, it sounds like you aim to do that - it makes no difference whether the owner is a collector, non-collector or dealer.

    As you mentioned, it probably wouldn’t be a good idea to use the term “junk silver”. But I think it would be fine to call it “90% silver” or “40% silver”, if applicable.

    I’m a big believer in being fair. However, if there’s a local dealer who’s paying a fair price, you don’t need to top it, just because he has overhead and you don’t.

    I agree with most of this except where you state it "makes no difference whether the owner is a collector, non collector or dealer." Specifically I dont think one has to go out of the way to treat a dealer the same as someone who is not a professional. In the law for instance, you have certain obligations when selling a car but those obligations are far less when selling to a dealer since they are presumed to be expert. Similarly if a dealer is in the business of making a profit of buying and selling coins I dont think it is my responsibility to to do his homework for him to ensure a profit and treat him or her as I would a non professional. I'm not encouraging anything misleading or misrepresenting a coin to anyone but I simply dont think I owe the same duty to a dealer as I do a non dealer.

    My comment, copied below, was with respect to the (fair) price I'd pay, not about how I'd treat a collector, as opposed to a dealer.

    "If you’re going to offer a fair price - and to your credit, it sounds like you aim to do that - it makes no difference whether the owner is a collector, non-collector or dealer."

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • ldhairldhair Posts: 7,232 ✭✭✭✭✭

    About once per year, I get to help someone with a small collection. It's just about the fun for me. They know up front that I'm just helping them go the right direction with the collection. With friends and family, I'm not a buyer unless they pin me down and want me to make an offer.

    Larry

  • MetroDMetroD Posts: 2,185 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MsMorrisine said:
    We just had a thread on valuing 40% silver.

    Perhaps someone here can remember the title of the thread. [...]

    Maybe this one?

  • gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,584 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I would take a quick look through just to make sure there aren't any expensive coins before making an offer of just silver. If any better coins then offer more accordingly.

    Successful BST with ad4400, Kccoin, lablover, pointfivezero, koynekwest, jwitten, coin22lover, HalfDimeDude, erwindoc, jyzskowsi, COINS MAKE CENTS, AlanSki, BryceM

  • Jim703Jim703 Posts: 23 ✭✭

    Thanks for all the advice. I thought I saw the number 18x floating around somewhere but couldn't find it. The "collector" status was just to put it in perspective, as I suspect they could be easy pickin's if they go to someone they don't know. Disclosing a little more information: actually a relative by marriage, and I think they need the money. I offered to check out the collection to see if there was anything valuable, even claimed that I am pretty good at evaluating condition for estimating value. They seem lukewarm to the offer. Frankly I'd spend a few hours with them inventorying if that's what they want. Or if they just want to get it done and in the absence of any coins they should set aside for a better return, I think I'll make it easy on the math and offer 20x.

    Thanks all for the comments.

  • logger7logger7 Posts: 8,510 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You could offer to sell what he has, possibly in increments and tell him you need to make at least minimum wage and your costs if you are selling on ebay. No one should work for under that unless they are independently wealthy.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,046 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @streeter said:
    NOVEMBER 3, 2021

    BUYING 90% SILVER DIMES & QUARTERS PAY SPOT + 2.50 X .715 X FACE

    That's wholesale buy. If the guy wants to pay more, more power to him. Rookie seller IMHO will have to be very careful getting what you or I could turn it over for. And couldn't.

    $500 is half a bag. $9,000.

    That’s a wholesale buy and some are noticeably higher or lower than others.

    Upstate dealer sheet 11/04

    90% – 1+ Bag* Buy/Sell +4.55 / +5.80 x .715
    90% –$100-$999 Face Value* +4.40 x .715

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 34,046 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @logger7 said:
    You could offer to sell what he has, possibly in increments and tell him you need to make at least minimum wage and your costs if you are selling on ebay. No one should work for under that unless they are independently wealthy.

    This is not a good strategy for 90%. You can sell it wholesale at 20x face. If you throw it on eBay, you need a retail buyer to want to pay 24x face to cover fees and shipping even without extracting "minimum wage".

  • Klif50Klif50 Posts: 682 ✭✭✭✭

    When I used to buy collections I would make it a rule to never buy anything from close friends or relatives. There is bound to be hard feelings some where down the road when they mis-remember what they really had and some friend of a friend tells them how badly you ripped them off. Even if you did everything with the utmost care and attention you can end up messed over in the end with all the family or family friends ganging up on you for how badly you ripped them off.

    You can certainly go through it with them, point out the better coins, holder them and put them on a list and then give them ideas of what every thing is worth, but it is not worth the grief you can end up getting from buying from friends or families.

    Just my experience.

  • logger7logger7 Posts: 8,510 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If the value of the collection is worth over $1000, I'd seriously recommend them to Apmex which makes those transactions easy with good buy/sell spreads: https://www.apmex.com/faq/selling-gold-silver-to-apmex

    Even with gold and silver up there are no local dealers paying more than around 17X face value on 90% silver.

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,996 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Klif50 said:
    When I used to buy collections I would make it a rule to never buy anything from close friends or relatives.

    I've heard this before

    perhaps this is a good idea:

    @jessewvu said:
    What I’ve done in situations like this is sit them down and evaluate the collection as if I had no interest in buying it. I’d give them the fair market value and let them know where they could sell it. I’d let them know if they were interested in selling it to me, to call me at a later date. If/when they call, I give them a price that would make it worth my time. They then have the information they need to make a decision. If they accept, everyone is happy, if they don’t, everyone is happy.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • Jim703Jim703 Posts: 23 ✭✭

    Just closing the loop on this.

    What a disappointment. A roll of silver circulated Washington quarters, half a roll of 68-D Kennedys, and a big bunch of circulated Bicentennial coins. And a few silver certificates with no collector value. I put the silver out at the Nashua NH show in November, nobody looked at them. Nothing I want either. All I could do was advise on what they might expect from a local dealer.

  • BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,793 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks for the update.

    Sounds like a typical experience.

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,996 ✭✭✭✭✭

    yes.

    many whiffs before a big score

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,759 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I buy from non collectors all the time (well, at least as often as they call!). Most collectors, I find, sell their stuff off before leaving it to their heirs. I rarely spend over $200 as most is just a few of this and a couple of that. Not really collections, more junk drawer stuff. I just accumulate the silver until I have a roll or two and then sell it off for melt. Best you can do in most "non collector collections".

    bob :)

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • erwindocerwindoc Posts: 5,075 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @pcgscacgold said:
    At some point you will go through the collection. You could always go back and give more money if you come across something that is rare. I received a check from a dealer one time because we both missed a mint mark on a WLH when coins were traded. When he was listing the coin on his company site he noticed the error and paid me. That is an honest dealer.

    I had a situation just like this. Canadian coin with a fairly valuable error on it that I didnt catch until really sitting down and going over the collection. Sent it to GC for grading and sale. After the sale, I sent the original owner of the collection some extra money.

  • moursundmoursund Posts: 3,207 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Jim703 said:
    Just closing the loop on this.

    What a disappointment. A roll of silver circulated Washington quarters, half a roll of 68-D Kennedys, and a big bunch of circulated Bicentennial coins. And a few silver certificates with no collector value. I put the silver out at the Nashua NH show in November, nobody looked at them. Nothing I want either. All I could do was advise on what they might expect from a local dealer.

    Circulated Bicentennial coins?!?! Those are worth at least 1.0X face!

    100th pint of blood donated 7/19/2022 B) . Transactions with WilliamF, Relaxn, LukeMarshal, jclovescoins, braddick, JWP, Weather11am, Fairlaneman, Dscoins, lordmarcovan, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, JimW. God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that who so believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.
  • CoinHoarderCoinHoarder Posts: 2,583 ✭✭✭✭✭

    In 2016, a guy I use to work with had inherited some common date 90% silver. He knew of my interest in these coins, so he asked if I was interested in buying them. I told him that I would pay him what the local coin dealer was paying at the time. The dealer was paying 11X face, which was typical back then. I told him that I would match the dealer’s offer. He happily accepted. I ended up buying about $500. worth of silver from him. We were both happy with the transaction.

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