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TheGoonies1985
Posts: 5,624 ✭✭✭✭✭
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NFL: Buffalo Bills & Green Bay Packers
1
TheGoonies1985
Posts: 5,624 ✭✭✭✭✭
Comments
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NFL: Buffalo Bills & Green Bay Packers
Some folks like rare dates. Other folks like high grades. Assuming one has enough money for both, that would be the ideal. But if I'm only collecting one or a few and unless I am a specialist, I'd rather have pretty coins.
(I happen to be a specialist, so I get the attraction to the date. But the REAL date to have is 1732, not 1733.)
Agreed but any 1733 is not a bad coin to own either. Was just trying to help forum members that may be looking for a 1733 and had not seen this one at HA.
NFL: Buffalo Bills & Green Bay Packers
I am collecting the series I needed a least one 1733 hence the purchase at HA the other day.
NFL: Buffalo Bills & Green Bay Packers
I have this on in my 1733 slot.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Nice coin yours is a Cob (maybe a klippe not sure) the one at HA is milled but I am sure you already know that.
NFL: Buffalo Bills & Green Bay Packers
It's technically a klippe with a cob style planchet, We just had a nice XF-AU square one come through the shop I work at. They are awesome coins!
My eBay page: https://www.ebay.com/usr/alvareznumismatics
Agreed great coins to own. Amazing history.
NFL: Buffalo Bills & Green Bay Packers
The klippes are quite interesting. They were clearly struck in the screw press with dies that are distinct from both the hammered cobs and the fully milled pillar dollars. So what caused these to be made? The screw press operators were able to handle both klippe and pillar dollars and the rolling mill operators were able to flatten either an ingot or the strips of silver normally destined for cobs. That points to blank stampers or most likely the edging mill operators as the bottleneck in the process. The cob hammerers must have been unable to take up the slack so this third process was invented, where strips of silver made for cobs were diverted through the rolling mills, then cut like cobs but run through the screw press.
That is an extremely well struck cob. Note that the mint mark on the klippe is to the right of the shield, but on the left for the cob.
I bought it as a klippe. The assayer mark is F, rather than MF, which makes room for the mint mark on the left. I already had a milled pillar 8R in my Prime Number Set in the 1759 slot, so I figured this would be really cool to have for 1733.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
This piece (indeed klippe dies, cob planchet) spurred me to take a quick look through Sedwick archives. Enough sample size to see that clearly, a much higher proportion of the 1733 assayer F alone klippe-die coins are struck on cob planchets as compared to 1733 assayer MF klippe-die coins. Had never noticed this before.
Not sure why you are calling this a klippe die. This design with the mint mark on the left of the shield and above the assayer had been a die feature for many years on cobs.
The key feature of the klippe was that the blank was milled to an even thickness so it could be struck in a screw press. Unless messydesk's example has the uniform thickness of a regular milled 8 reales then it's not likely to be a klippe.
Those look like royals?
NFL: Buffalo Bills & Green Bay Packers
It's pretty much an recognized thing that "cob planchets struck with klippe dies" exist. True, they are not "true" klippes... but if the cob planchet was prepared somewhat close to even thickness, it probably could (and apparently did) work enough to spit out a coin.
Aside from that, the reverse dies are a giveaway - the klippe style cross side being very close to the more ornate style used on pieces like the 1727 jgenn linked as opposed to the "normal" cob die.
***EDIT - another thing which I've never taken notice of, just as one quick comparison point... the Bourbon 3 fleurs escutcheon is much neater on the 1733 klippe obv die as compared to the 1733 cob obv die)
One more point, perhaps the most telling proof... If you look at the 1733F klippe die on cob planchet examples, you'll see that they all have essentially perfect medal alignment just as "true" klippes do - clearly done with the new style mechanized equipment. Below is a montage of thumbnails from Sedwick archives which show this quite readily:
