Who struck 1876 Liberty Bell & Independence Hall Centennial So-Called Dollars - HK-27 to HK-29?

Zoins

This is the type for HK-27-29 for the US Centennial. Does anyone know who struck this?

https://www.so-calleddollars.com/Events/US_Centennial.html

A somewhat similar, but distinctively different piece, HK-23 to HK-26, was commissioned by John H. Diehl with dies from Key.

keets

I assume it was "Messrs. Deihl, Philadelphia" as indicated in the SC$ text for HK-23 through HK-47a.

Zoins

@keets said:
I assume it was "Messrs. Deihl, Philadelphia" as indicated in the SC$ text for HK-23 through HK-47a.

Are you going by the text under the section heading LIBERTY BELL-INDEPENDENCE HALL DOLLARS? I believe the text under this heading refers to just HK-23-26. Or are you referring to some other text?

Of note:

• The bell in HK-27-29 certainly looks like a different style than HK-23-26, though it's possible John H. Diehl commissioned multiple parties.
• Other medals in these numbers are attributed to others such as HK-42 to HK-45 and HK-47 to HK-47a to George Bache Soley.

keets

Are you going by the text under the section heading LIBERTY BELL-INDEPENDENCE HALL DOLLARS??

yes. since the heading makes that reference it follows that Diehl was the issuer. it's not a stretch to assume that the other listings which bear that design were also struck by him. to my reading it's pretty self-explanatory. all of the listings somehow relate back to HK-23.

Zoins

@keets said:
Are you going by the text under the section heading LIBERTY BELL-INDEPENDENCE HALL DOLLARS??

yes. since the heading makes that reference it follows that Diehl was the issuer. it's not a stretch to assume that the other listings which bear that design were also struck by him. to my reading it's pretty self-explanatory. all of the listings somehow relate back to HK-23.

Okay. I read that and had a different interpretation given the way it’s presented.

That being said, even if your interpretation was intended, I don’t think it would be correct given the presence of the Soley-attributed pieces in the range.

keets

I don’t think it would be correct given the presence of the Soley-attributed pieces in the range.

please re-read my post, HK-23 through HK-47a, and follow your link again. unless I missed it somewhere there is no reference to Soley until HK-48.

Zoins

@keets said:
I don’t think it would be correct given the presence of the Soley-attributed pieces in the range.

please re-read my post, HK-23 through HK-47a, and follow your link again. unless I missed it somewhere there is no reference to Soley until HK-48.

While "Soley" is not mentioned until HK-48, medals in the range HK-48 to HK-61 are mentioned as sharing dies with HK-32a, HK-42 and HK-47.

Given this it seems it would be untenable to say Soley designed everything from HK-48 to HK-61 and Key designed everything from HK-23 to HK-47a for Diehl.

The following shows an overlapping of the ranges HK-23 to HK-47a and HK-48 to HK-61.

• HK-48-51: "Rev. Same as obverse of No. 42 [Independence Hall].
• HK-52-55a: "Rev. Same as reverse of No. 32a [Naked bust Washington r.].
• HK-60-61: "Rev. Same as reverse of No. 47 [Six-pointed star with rays].

keets

Zoins, in the OP you asked about HK-27- HK-29, right?? is that what you want to know or not?? I offered an opinion on that and directed you to your own link but now you want to discuss the Soley designs. I've been in these circular threads with you before and don't wish to do so again. maybe you should edit the OP and better describe what it is you want to know. then someone else might be able to help.

Zoins

@keets said:
Zoins, in the OP you asked about HK-27- HK-29, right?? is that what you want to know or not?? I offered an opinion on that and directed you to your own link but now you want to discuss the Soley designs. I've been in these circular threads with you before and don't wish to do so again. maybe you should edit the OP and better describe what it is you want to know. then someone else might be able to help.

I don’t think it’s that hard to follow, but I’m sorry you do. Here’s the thinking.

You indicated that HK-23 to HK-47a were all from Diehl (and Key according to HK) given the text of HK.

I provided evidence that it’s not clear HK-23 to HK-47a are all from Diehl given the text of HK has overlap with Soley.

If it’s not clear that HK-23 to HK-47a are all from Diehl, then it’s not clear that HK-26 to HK-29 are from Diehl.

Zoins

Some more info. Here's the paragraph from HK mentioning Diehl. I can see how you could interpret the quote for Diehl (spelled Deihl) (also mentioning Key) to apply for all pieces in the section from HK-23 to HK-47a, but, as shown, there's some inconsistency within HK here. The other thing is that the text mentioning Diehl mentions Key and while Key signed HK 23 to HK-26, HK-27 to HK-29 are not signed.

LIBERTY BELL-INDEPENDENCE HALL DOLLARS

Struck and issued by Messrs. Deihl, Philadelphia; designed by Key. Some of pieces with small bell struck as early as 1872; with large bell, 1874, in anticipation of centennial celebration. Liberty Bell, made of bronze, weighs 2,080 pounds, is 3 feet high, measures 12 feet around lip. John Pass and Charles Stow recast bell in 1753, it having cracked year before; in 1835 it cracked beyond repair. It now hangs in Liberty Bell Center, a dedicated museum within Independence National Historical Park near old State House, renamed Independence Hall, where Declaration of Independence was unanimously adopted by Continental Congress, July 4, 1776

Zoins

I reached out to Jeff Shevlin @SoCalledGuy and he indicated that HK-27 to HK-29 were issued by John W. Kline, and was not engraved by Key. This is going to be covered in the upcoming book he's writing with Bill Hyder, "So-Called Dollars from U.S. Expositions - Volume 1".