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Do you agree or disagree with this decision

perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,548 ✭✭✭✭✭

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/10/04/harbaughs-quest-for-meaningless-record-created-unnecessary-injury-risk-for-ravens-broncos-players/amp/

Personally I like records and such, I see both sides of this however if it was me I would have taken the knee.

Comments

  • 2dueces2dueces Posts: 6,434 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No. It makes a mockery of the game. I remember a team calling shuttle passes every down to get the running back some record. Maybe it was catches by a RB for a season.
    I also remember the Bills down big just handing off to OJ every play. Not trying to win, just padding the stats.
    How about Favre falling down in front of Strahan for the sack record because he didn’t like Mark Gastineu.
    All of the above and Lamars run pure BS.

    W.C.Fields
    "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,548 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @2dueces I think I remember that RB catch thing your talking about, Larry Centers with the Cardinals getting over 100 catches

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 23,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think it was pretty classless of Harbaugh to do that, I would have just taken the knee.

  • MCMLVToppsMCMLVTopps Posts: 4,830 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Better to have taken the knee. Kinda bush league to me.

  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This is an interesting sports nugget, in my opinion. I read the article, thought about it a bit, and started extrapolating out different outcomes and scenarios. I probably put more thought into it than necessary, but that's alright and this is why God created Sports Talk

    With this 100 yard game, the team tied a record. It will be interesting to see if they break the record next week. Will the Colts defense use this as bulletin board material and stop the Ravens from setting the record?

    What will he do if the streak continues and they are in this situation again? Will he run it on the last play of the game to attempt to extend the record?

    What would have been the narrative around this incident if Harbaugh took a knee? A more positive one? Could he have been proactive and created that narrative himself, by somehow capitalizing on his decision to end the streak in the name of player safety?

    Did he in fact do himself a disservice? Will there be a asterisk?

  • fergie23fergie23 Posts: 2,128 ✭✭✭✭

    I am all for it, players play. Did anyone get injured? No they didn't, people should stop whining about the risks. Players face a higher risk of injury practicing, than one single play at the end of the game.

    Robb

  • thisistheshowthisistheshow Posts: 9,386 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @fergie23 said:
    I am all for it, players play. Did anyone get injured? No they didn't, people should stop whining about the risks. Players face a higher risk of injury practicing, than one single play at the end of the game.

    Robb

    ..........
    Players do get hurt on meaningless plays, but I understand your point. However, I think the player safety aspect of the debate is just a smokescreen covering up the fact that the way they tied the record is a bit disingenuous.

  • blurryfaceblurryface Posts: 5,136 ✭✭✭✭✭

    theres no right or wrong answer really. whats meaningful to some, may be completely dumb to others. i will say that regardless of the “normal operating procedure” there was time on the clock and they are there to play football. unnecessary risk is taken almost every minute whether its on the field or off. heck look what happened to mike soroka this year while rehabbing. freak accident.

    and whether its football, driving, war or boxing, in life you protect yourself at all times. there was time on the clock and they had pads and helmets on. 1 measly yard to continue a record from the 70s? id prolly go for the extension too. and why didnt your team know about the record? why was your defense unprepared? why ya giving up? dont be a sore loser. bet your defense is more aware from this point on though. 😉

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 6, 2021 4:08AM

    let's get real and give this some context:
    --- with less than a minute left in the game, the Bronco's had the ball around mid-field and were trailing 23-7. realistically, there was no chance of them winning.
    --- the Bronco's ran the ball and with 26 seconds left threw a pass which gave them the ball around the 10 yard line with 10 seconds left on the clock.
    --- they then attempted a pass which was intercepted in the end zone, giving the Ravens the ball at the 20 yard line with three seconds left.

    that idiot HC for the Broncos had ample opportunity to "take a knee" when he had the ball and end the game. he chose not to. he has nobody to blame but himself, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

    this is all just another example of the "media craze" that makes mountains-out-of-molehills and fans who are, well, sort of ignorant. not too many know the context and circumstances, they only hear a whining HC. he was wrong.

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,548 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @keets said:
    let's get real and give them some context:
    --- with less than a minute left in the game, the Bronco's had the ball around mid-field and were trailing 23-7. realistically, there was no chance of them winning.
    --- the Bronco's ran the ball and with 26 seconds left threw a pass which gave them the ball around the 10 yard line with 10 seconds left on the clock.
    --- they then attempted a pass which was intercepted in the end zone, giving the Ravens the ball at the 20 yard line with three seconds left.

    that idiot HC for the Broncos had ample opportunity to "take a knee" when he had the ball and end the game. he chose not to. he has nobody to blame but himself, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

    this is all just another example of the "media craze" that makes mountains-out-of-molehills and fans who are, well, sort of ignorant. not too many know the context and circumstances, they only hear a whining HC. he was wrong.

    Valid point.

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 11,206 ✭✭✭✭✭

    i will never have a problem with a team choosing to play rather than run out the clock. I have never been a proponent of mercy rules or giving up when you are down by a bunch. I am not saying the outcome would have changed, but I have no problem with players playing until the final out or when the horns sound.

    If the Broncos have a problem with the ravens running at the end, it is simple.

    just stop them.

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

  • streeterstreeter Posts: 4,312 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Keets nailed it...
    .
    .
    And the Bronco's coach is a pouting whiner. That's a bad combo.

    Have a nice day
  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 23,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Lamar Jackson was the one who gained the yardage to break the meaningless record, a record he said he cared nothing about, he just wanted the win. If Jackson had been hurt on that play, then we'd all be calling Harbaugh an idiot. He can hang this record right beside his meaningless preseason winning streak record.

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    He can hang this record right beside his meaningless preseason winning streak record.

    Jim Harbaugh might be a douche-bag for a variety of reasons, but this isn't one of them.

  • blurryfaceblurryface Posts: 5,136 ✭✭✭✭✭

    maybe what i > @doubledragon said:

    . If Jackson had been hurt on that play, then we'd all be calling Harbaugh an idiot. He can hang this record right beside his meaningless preseason winning streak record.

    but he wasnt. and i heard he did hang his record. prominently next to his meaningless joe louis signd pic. i mean yuck, right? 😉

    see what i mean when i said what might be meaningless to one, is important to another? best to save the judge card and bang the gavel on something else.

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 23,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @blurryface said:
    maybe what i > @doubledragon said:

    . If Jackson had been hurt on that play, then we'd all be calling Harbaugh an idiot. He can hang this record right beside his meaningless preseason winning streak record.

    but he wasnt. and i heard he did hang his record. prominently next to his meaningless joe louis signd pic. i mean yuck, right? 😉

    see what i mean when i said what might be meaningless to one, is important to another? best to save the judge card and bang the gavel on something else.

    Joe is retired and he's taking a nap, he is not to be disturbed!

  • galaxy27galaxy27 Posts: 7,757 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I am a bigtime proponent of smearing the opposition's nose in it when you've earned the right to do so. it is not my job to stop me, it's yours. if you can't do it, then imo you are most deserving of whatever comes your way.

    always cracks me up when a team gets their asses handed to them, yet the anger and intensity doesn't appear until the other team spikes the ball in their faces. do you think Fangio's presser would have been as heated if the Ravens had kneeled? hell no. he would have dished out some trite, hackneyed bull pop tarts that would have put everyone to sleep.

    here's a novel idea: get pissed off before the game as opposed to after, then maybe you won't get punked 23-7

    you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 23,269 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 6, 2021 9:07AM

    All I'm saying is Lamar said he didn't care about the record, don't risk his health over it, and show some sportsmanship by just taking a knee.

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 23,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    But to be honest, Vic Fangio didn't help matters either by trying to score when the game was out of reach. Let's just say they're both idiots and call it a day!

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 11,206 ✭✭✭✭✭

    100 years ago when i played team sports, I experienced both ends of blowouts. one of the things i hated the most was when the other team let up when the game got out of hand. I always felt it was disrespectful, as in they thought we were so bad they had to let up so as not to embarrass us.

    nope, I would have rather been treated as an equal and have my nose driven into the ground until the end and feel like the opposition respected us enough to keep playing until the final buzzer.

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 23,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm just glad Lamar didn't get injured, and hopefully he won't get injured the next time John needs a record.

  • blurryfaceblurryface Posts: 5,136 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @doubledragon said:
    All I'm saying is Lamar said he didn't care about the record, don't risk his health over it, and show some sportsmanship by just taking a knee.

    and joe shouldnt have whooped up on max schmeling like that in the first round. he shoulda been a true sportsman, not tko’d him and carried him at least another couple hundred rounds, right? it wasnt the cornermans record.

  • blurryfaceblurryface Posts: 5,136 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @doubledragon

    i didnt need to, but im gonna break my useless 5000th post cherry record on you. 😉

  • 2dueces2dueces Posts: 6,434 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @blurryface said:
    @doubledragon

    i didnt need to, but im gonna break my useless 5000th post cherry record on you. 😉

    Epic milestone as time ran out! Congratulations!!

    W.C.Fields
    "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 23,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @blurryface said:

    @doubledragon said:
    All I'm saying is Lamar said he didn't care about the record, don't risk his health over it, and show some sportsmanship by just taking a knee.

    and joe shouldnt have whooped up on max schmeling like that in the first round. he shoulda been a true sportsman, not tko’d him and carried him at least another couple hundred rounds, right? it wasnt the cornermans record.

    That was different, it was a vengeance beating!

  • doubledragondoubledragon Posts: 23,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @blurryface said:
    @doubledragon

    i didnt need to, but im gonna break my useless 5000th post cherry record on you. 😉

    @blurryface said:
    @doubledragon

    i didnt need to, but im gonna break my useless 5000th post cherry record on you. 😉

    That's a record I can support, congrats! 🖒

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    treated as an equal and have my nose driven into the ground until the end

    that kind of thinking has probably gotten more players injured than just taking the knee. I have always applauded NFL players for battling the way they do and then taking the time afterwards to shake hands, speak briefly and wish each other well. these players may be Teammates some day, a near certainty with today's free agency, bad blood isn't necessary. also, this is the sort of thing that makes the locker-room bulletin board next season when they play again.

    the saving grace in the whole affair is that Fangio deserved it, much ado about nothing. he just should have shut-up about it after the game.

  • erikthredderikthredd Posts: 8,960 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I think for us Pats fan it would be hypocritcal of us to critique this play when we've watched Brady & BB run up the score/play the full 60mins when so many games had already been decided at that point. Quite a few of Brady's TDs during his record breaking 50 TD season,at the time, came with the game's outcome firmly in hand.

    There was also the time that Gronk & Jimmy Graham were both going after the all time TE yardage record for a season and NE thought Gronk locked it up late in a week 17 game until seeing Jimmy Graham had just passed Gronk. The Pats were up by 28pts with roughly 90 seconds left,Brady on the bench and Hoyer just needed to kneel three times for the game. Instead BB & Bill O'Brien had Hoyer throw it to Gronk on first down and needing just 6yds to pass Graham he ended up with a 22yd reception.
    Here's what Belichick had to say after the game:
    “That last play, I had [offensive coordinator] Billy [O’Brien] call that because I wasn’t sure exactly where he was, and I thought he deserved another chance to go up and try to make another play,’’ Belichick said. “He’s had a great year and he’s worked hard. I thought he deserved that.’’

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't think "running up" anything is a good idea because of the revenge factor and there comes a time when Sportsmanship should trump all other aspects of the game, even the revenge factor. I know a lot of fans don't agree with that and some Coaches don't either, but in the long run it's the best thing to do. Geez, doesn't the MMA let guys tap out?? doesn't boxing let guys throw in the towel??

  • HydrantHydrant Posts: 7,773 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2021 11:13AM

    Many coaching decisions that are made are very puzzling to the fans. I'll try one more time; When you as a fan see something that doesn't seem to make sense during the final minutes or seconds of a game, like, why are the star players still on the field when the game is a foregone conclusion......think MONEY! i.e., you have no idea what contract incentive clauses are involved.💰

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,548 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @erikthredd said:
    I think for us Pats fan it would be hypocritcal of us to critique this play when we've watched Brady & BB run up the score/play the full 60mins when so many games had already been decided at that point. Quite a few of Brady's TDs during his record breaking 50 TD season,at the time, came with the game's outcome firmly in hand.

    There was also the time that Gronk & Jimmy Graham were both going after the all time TE yardage record for a season and NE thought Gronk locked it up late in a week 17 game until seeing Jimmy Graham had just passed Gronk. The Pats were up by 28pts with roughly 90 seconds left,Brady on the bench and Hoyer just needed to kneel three times for the game. Instead BB & Bill O'Brien had Hoyer throw it to Gronk on first down and needing just 6yds to pass Graham he ended up with a 22yd reception.
    Here's what Belichick had to say after the game:
    “That last play, I had [offensive coordinator] Billy [O’Brien] call that because I wasn’t sure exactly where he was, and I thought he deserved another chance to go up and try to make another play,’’ Belichick said. “He’s had a great year and he’s worked hard. I thought he deserved that.’’

    My issue was always that Belichick would leave Brady and other key starters in late in games during blowouts. I still say it was absolutely ridiculous and stupid

  • HydrantHydrant Posts: 7,773 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2021 2:25PM

    @perkdog said:

    My issue was always that Belichick would leave Brady and other key starters in late in games during blowouts. I still say it was absolutely ridiculous and stupid

    O.K. I'll try again. This issue was explained to me by a former Oakland Raider. The reason that key starters remain in the game during blowouts is because of INCENTIVE CLAUSES in their contracts!!!!!! It's SIMPLE!!!!!!!! If the coach pulls a player out of the game......ESPECIALLY in a blowout, then the player has every reason to think that he is being cheated out of MONEY by management by not upholding their agreements in the contract negotiations. Basically, players get paid EXTRA over their base salary for every touchdown, sack, tackle, yardage gained, recpition, MINUTES played, etc. REGARDLESS of how much time is remaining in the game.

    EXAMPLE; Imagine you are a wide receiver for the Patriots named Perkdog and you are a key player. Perkdog signed a contract for the season. In that contract it states that Perkdog earns $5,000 EXTRA for every catch he makes AND he earns $100,000 extra for every touchdown pass he catches. Now......does Perkdog want to come out of the game?......I don't think so. And if Perkdog does get pulled from the game might he not think that somebody didn't bargain in good faith during his contract negotiations? I think so....Bottom line....Perkdog's earning potential takes a big hit when he sits on the bench. He doesn't like that. Perkdog is a professional athlete....... he plays for.....MONEY!!!!!

  • TabeTabe Posts: 6,060 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2021 3:32PM

    @keets said:
    He can hang this record right beside his meaningless preseason winning streak record.

    Jim Harbaugh might be a douche-bag for a variety of reasons, but this isn't one of them.

    Especially since it's John Harbaugh with the winning streak and 100-yard game records. :)

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Jim or John, douche-bagginess must run in the Harbaugh family.

  • galaxy27galaxy27 Posts: 7,757 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Hydrant said:

    a wide receiver for the Patriots named Perkdog

    this guy sounds like a stud

    i'd draft him in the 1st round in fantasy

    you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,548 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Hydrant said:

    @perkdog said:

    My issue was always that Belichick would leave Brady and other key starters in late in games during blowouts. I still say it was absolutely ridiculous and stupid

    O.K. I'll try again. This issue was explained to me by a former Oakland Raider. The reason that key starters remain in the game during blowouts is because of INCENTIVE CLAUSES in their contracts!!!!!! It's SIMPLE!!!!!!!! If the coach pulls a player out of the game......ESPECIALLY in a blowout, then the player has every reason to think that he is being cheated out of MONEY by management by not upholding their agreements in the contract negotiations. Basically, players get paid EXTRA over their base salary for every touchdown, sack, tackle, yardage gained, recpition, MINUTES played, etc. REGARDLESS of how much time is remaining in the game.

    EXAMPLE; Imagine you are a wide receiver for the Patriots named Perkdog and you are a key player. Perkdog signed a contract for the season. In that contract it states that Perkdog earns $5,000 EXTRA for every catch he makes AND he earns $100,000 extra for every touchdown pass he catches. Now......does Perkdog want to come out of the game?......I don't think so. And if Perkdog does get pulled from the game might he not think that somebody didn't bargain in good faith during his contract negotiations? I think so....Bottom line....Perkdog's earning potential takes a big hit when he sits on the bench. He doesn't like that. Perkdog is a professional athlete....... he plays for.....MONEY!!!!!

    Ok this is the best explanation I’ve ever got on this, I completely understand “Why” now, thank you for that.

    However let’s go this Angie. Coach Perkdog is up big in the AFC Championship game, Yes the Game is pretty much over. We score a TD and I’m in a situation where I can or cannot put a key player nicknamed “Gronk” in on a meaningless extra point try . Coach Perkdog is NOT putting him in there incase he breaks a bone in his arm and is limited in a The Super Bowl.

  • TabeTabe Posts: 6,060 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @keets said:
    Jim or John, douche-bagginess must run in the Harbaugh family.

    It most definitely does.

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