President Pre-Print Photos
JMS1223
Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭✭✭
I was thinking about how U.S. Presidents usually send out 8x10s upon request with a printed signature(s). I was thinking how one might collect a series of Official White House pre-print photos. They are kind of nice and one could easily make a display of every President since these started being sent out. I was thinking about it and wondering a few things:
Who was the earliest President known to send the typical pre-print photo? I have seen Dwight D. Eisenhower ones — but sometimes the same photo had an authentic signature instead of the printed version — same for Kennedy. I recently read somewhere that the Kennedy White House ordered pre-printed cards but also ordered 400 blank ones that would get an authentic autograph, so that explains how same photo can have authentic but also printed version. I think after Kennedy though the authentic photos were usually on real photo paper (although I have seen autopen versions on same types of photos) and pre-prints on the thin poster-card like paper.
I would LOVE to see photos of the different typical pre-print photos sent out by Presidents. I know some only had one or two photos whereas others expanded and had a wider variety (for example Bush had ones with his family including pets, one of just him and Laura, another of him with Cheney, and a few different of just Bush himself - 1st term official portrait, 2nd term, one of him boarding Air Force One etc.). I have tried eBay just to see but surprisingly they sell mostly unofficial pre-prints so it’s hard to weed through all that to find the few White House issued ones. Some President pre-prints seem more available to find than others (George W. Bush, and earlier seem easy to find but Obama and after I can’t find any BUT I know they exist. I have seen one Trump one a collector got ttm so I know he sent them but not sure if Biden has yet — would love to see one).
Related but not really what I am after are White House Christmas Cards. I know these were sent every year from at least Truman onwards. Some of the early ones had real autographs.
Another curious thing - sometimes one gets just preprint letter and other times just the preprint photo and sometimes both. Does one have to specifically request photo to get it or does that just happen with a response to a simple letter to the President? I know in my experience I only got preprint photos from Clinton and Bush but they were specifically requested. When writing Obama I only got pre-print letters maybe because I never asked for a photo. I have never gotten anything from Trump or Biden, except the IRS stimulus letters. Have pre-prints and White House correspondence gone down significantly since George W. Bush left office? I remember every SINGLE time I sent anything to Bush I always got a response. That was no longer true for Obama (but he did respond to at least half of my letters in some form) and never anything from Trump or Biden from letters I sent. Has anyone else experienced this?
The first time I ever write anyone famous a letter was to President Clinton in 1998. I remember thinking he would probably never respond since he was the President and got millions of letters but figured I would try. I was shocked when a few months later I got a letter from the White House! Inside was a White House card with preprinted Clinton signature and two small 3x4 photos of Clinton with small preprinted signature under photo in lower border with biographical information on the back. I kept these for about twenty years then when I was doing a big clean out got rid of them because I only wanted to keep real autographs. I regret that now and wish I kept at least this FIRST ever response I got from a letter I wrote to someone famous.
Comments
I'll give it some thought and reply more in-depth later, but the printed stuff counts as "ephemera" and has some (a little) value as such.
If we are seeking authentic autographs we hate receiving such things but as ephemera they are collectable in their own right.
P.S. - so far I've gotten no replies to a couple letters to Biden. I did get an occassional reply (printed signatures on letters or cards) from Trump.
I’d like to see pictures of the printed Trump responses when you have a chance to photograph them. I am guessing you never got a photo, just cards/letters from Trump? I guess the photos really are rare.
Correct. No photos that I can recall, and no preprinted autograph cards.
Some examples:
Reagan
Bush Sr.
Clinton (I think this was sent after he was President)
Bush
Obama
It was very difficult to find even these examples so I will have to keep looking. I found these through Google Images.
I have Biden preprinted photos but the only one as President was an official framed Inaugural item from last January that I bought. Also have a photo of him as Vice President and one as Senator.
Here's the Nixon one - it has no preprinted signature, but it came with the enclosed card.
Here's the Ford photo - it has a preprinted signature, and the enclosed card.
I don't know why I have two of these for Jimmy Carter. The second photo is preprinted, but the signature is in the area of his dark suit, so it's hard to see. Also have a separate First Lady photo.
While you only mentioned U. S. Presidents, I couldn't resist including South Africa's Nelson Mandela here.
With regards to others, I think I have a George H. W. Bush preprinted, but it was from when he was Vice President. I also think I have Dan Quayle's and Al Gore's VP preprinted photos.
That is really cool. I didn’t know he sent anything. I only knew he didn’t sign authentically ttm. Would be really neat to get his autograph someday but it’s expensive.
I got it back in 1998.
That might explain why I never knew about them. I mostly started collecting ttm in 2005-2006. I think by then he didn’t send anything back. I would love to have that preprint if you happen to have an extra laying around (probably not).
I love all the other examples you posted. I forgot to include the Jimmy Carter one in my post. I knew about that one…but the earlier ones are neat in that they sent unsigned photo along with preprinted cards. That is neat. Actually that might be better in a sense because you can maybe someday get the unsigned photo authentically signed (assuming your attempt was going to be shortly after you received it, and not now when Nixon and Ford are deceased). However they are still useful if you purchase an authentic autograph and decide to frame it with a photo…what better photo to use than an official White House one.
Edit: Just realized the Ford is preprinted on photo and with card. But I think he may have sent unsigned photos too for some reason.
The Biden Senate photo appears not preprinted but maybe it’s in a dark area. If just photo, that would be a great photo to use for framing if you get have an authentic Biden autograph to frame. Love the Inaugural ones you purchased. That looks awesome.
A few more I found browsing eBay.
(I guess he did send this one during his Presidency, although I distinctly remember getting one ttm in 2005)
This was the typical Bush preprint that was sent out. I must have gotten two or three of these before having my unbelievable Andy Card success in getting an authentic Bush autograph on a matte finish photo. (Unfortunately that was sold during my big sell off)
1) I photoshopped the Biden Senate photo below and lightened it a lot so you can see the signature that was hidden in the dark area. And, yes, I agree that the Inaugural framed one is a great photo! I don't usually buy that kind of Inaugural stuff, but I couldn't resist.
2) I only have the one Mandela, sorry.
3) Yes, the Ford is preprinted on photo.
I am assuming you got that while he was president. I don't think I ever wrote to him then. Too bad, as it's an historical piece of ephemera.
I do have one authentic Mandela signature. About 15 years ago the Easton Press found a small supply of signed leather books they had issued that were never sold, and they did a mailing to customers offering one per person at $250.
I had never spent that much on a signed book, but a quick check of Ebay told me it was a good deal. So, I sent back the card to order one. I was afraid they might run out so I also called to order. I assumed they would only send one book, but I got two.
Before the credit card bill even arrived I sold one on Ebay for $1600. Fees were about $100, the two books were $500, so I ended up with $1000 profit and an essentially free book. I still have both the $ and the book.
That was my best autograph score, not counting TTM replies.
Wow! That’s a steal. I wish I could buy one at that price. I think now they are going for several thousand!
Still a very great deal you got but had you held onto that book you could had made a few thousand more profit today with how much Mandela’s autograph has increased in value. Currently going for between $2500-$3000 for Easton Press signed editions of Long Walk to Freedom. I may had been the one willing to buy it off you too!
Just curious - has anyone, you or someone you know, received anything at all from the White House this year? It can be printed, not signed at all or the very unusual authentic autograph they send to a few select people that get lucky. I have not heard or seen any examples of anything coming from the Biden White House yet. I wonder how long it typically takes for a new administration to start sending out mail. I know covid might be playing a role so it might be different from previous administrations timetables.
Just curious when/if we start seeing the new Biden preprints. Or if his will be the first administration to stop them. I know Trump did them but they were very rare and very few got them.
I have not seen anything from the Biden White House, nor have I heard of anything being sent.
I know that in the past the correspondence office was staffed with some volunteers. I imagine they have not been in due to COVID.
That would make sense. When I looked at the few Trump items that do exist they are all from before 2020. The only 2020 White House printed items I found were the Easter Egg roll eggs with printed signatures and the Christmas White House booklet (I wonder if actual event took place inside the White House in 2020 during height of covid?).
I have seen several Trump preprinted notes/cards but no preprint photos from Trump White House. I know they exist because someone online claimed to have gotten one but no pictures of it or anything. I would love to see one if anyone comes across one. They could end up being valuable due to rarity.
Here is a White House card acknowledging Holiday greetings, received in January 2020.
That looks very nice. I had seen a few others like this including from other Presidents since Reagan. Not sure if Presidents prior to Reagan sent out Christmas greetings (outside of the separate White House Christmas Card which I believe started around Eisenhower administration). I remember getting Christmas Greetings letters/cards from Bush and Obama. Never got the actual White House Christmas Cards which I believe are sent separate from the White House mail.
Can’t believe this just sold for $50! Clearly advertised as autopen/printed. Guess these are rare now. I don’t see a lot of them, whereas George W. Bush seemed to have an endless supply. I used to have at least ten various preprint/autopen photos of Bush, but sadly when I did my big sell off those all went too. Only ever got one Obama preprint/autopen and that was in 2008 when he first ran for President.
https://ebay.com/itm/President-Barack-Obama-Signed-8x10-Color-Photo-White-House-RARE-/324682915753?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l6249&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0
Not sure if I got any Obama autopens while he was in office. I did get one from his post-presidential office.
I think the only post-President pre-print/autopen photo I ever received was Bill Clinton and that was in like 2006-2009. Not sure if people collect the post-President ones as much. Haven’t researched the collectibility of those.
Saying that, I would like to see what the post-President Obama pre-print/autopen looks like. Hopefully a different photo and not one from his President years.
Here is my post-presidential Obama autopenned photo. There was no date on the envelope but I assume it was from 2017 or so.
It is an official White House photo, and may even have been autopenned while he was still at the WH. (It is a real photo and not a lithographed photo.)
Very interesting. Photo was definitely taken as President but perhaps mailed afterwards. Interesting transition piece. Never seen that before with the sticker on it and it “signed” at an angle instead of below in white space. Did you request this or was it just a response in one of your letters?
I think I just asked for an auto or maybe a photo.
I know that Gerald Ford sent out leftover autopenned cards and photos for at least a few years after he left office. He would, of course, become one the best TTM former presidents ever.
I remember that. When I first started collecting in late 2005 I wrote to him but got back a note saying he recently stopped sending those signed photos out. I was so sad I missed the boat. I think he stopped in 2004 so I missed it by only a year.
Sort of off-topic, or maybe not....
There seems to be an almost total lack of post-presidential Obama letters of any kind. I did just a quick search on the internet and didn't find any.
Printed or autopenned letters are out there for Bush and Clinton (not sure about Trump yet) but little it nothing ftom Obama. This is also based on personal experiences.
I've even gotten authentically signed letters or notes from Bush and Clinton, but nothing at all from Obama.
If I remember correctly I feel like you told me you did get something from the dog condolence note you sent to Obama earlier this year. I NEVER got anything AFTER he was President - just once before (in 2008 when he was running) and two or three preprinted responses during the White House years. But I agree I never seen anything post-President ttm from anyone. The only post-President Obama stuff I saw of ANY kind is the deluxe edition signed books he signed authentically.
Yes, you are correct. I did get one or two small printed pics of his dog. I was mainly happy to get the envelope with the printed free frank. (The photo I got 4 or 5 years ago had a stamp on it).
When you have a chance I would love to see that (both the photos and free frank with your address blurred out).
Not quite on-topic, but my guess is this is a secretarial or autopen. Yesterday, President Biden noted the 49th anniversary of the death of his first wife Neilia and daughter Amy in an auto accident. At the time, I had recently worked in his first Senate campaign, and I and other volunteers were kinda in shock. I sent a sympathy card to Biden and received this form letter months later.
That is actually very neat. Even if it’s printed/secretarial, it’s still quite historical.
Is it on ink? Is the letter typed with your name on it?
That would be fairly early for a senatorial autopen. They were usually pretty obvious back then.
I'd keep it in the "potentially real" pile.
I'll have to dig it out and look at it, I don't think my name was on it.
The name is in ink. I goofed when I said autopen, I meant that it's possibly a secretarial. I am in a Facebook group for Biden political items and someone there knew Biden's secretary whose initials "emp" are on this letter. He's tried to get in touch with her and ask about these things, but no luck so far. Until then, yes, I will keep it in my "potentially real" pile.
If you wanted, you could send it to Beckett or PSA and get it authenticated and make sure to select to have the sticker placed on the letter of authenticity and NOT on the item itself. If you get it authenticated you will have a better idea if it’s secretarial or authentic.
I had a JFK letter that I thought was authentic simply because it was on letterhead from when he was in the House of Representatives well before he was very well known. But it turned out a secretary had signed it after I had it looked at by an expert.
That would be great if you could track her down.
I've seen a lot of incorrect information on the internet about those types of notations on letters. Some people think that a lack of a secretary's initials means that the signer typed it themselves, or that if there are initials it means a secretary signed it. Neither is necessarily or usually true.
I believe that it dates to times when there were typing pools or at least multiple secretaries in an office, and the initials were to keep track of who did the typing.
The use of those notations is largely obsolete these days. But of course, so are letters and especially ones with authentic signatures.
Either way, the whole grouping is definitely a very unusual and historic collection.
Received this week: a card acknowledging my birthday greetings, with holiday greetings snuck in. Not quite a White House Christmas card...
I hope this means I will be getting one soon as I just recently sent him a letter.
I've posted this before, but as a 1972 Biden campaign volunteer, I got this thank you letter from him 8 days after he won his first Senate race. Assuming he signed this himself, I post it only to illustrate that the slash he uses for the "J" in his first name goes waayyy back.
The guy on the Facebook group did hear back from her. "emp" said that she was responsible for typing the letters for Senator Biden back then, and someone else for running the robo machines to get the letters out. I think a robo machine is a form of autopen. So, I think I can dismiss the possibility of my letter above being a signed one.
Interesting. Still a keeper as an historic document.
That's still pretty early for autopen use, especially for a freshman senator. I'd keep half an eye open for other examples.
I know of an Eisenhower autopen pattern from the early 1940s when he was a General during WWII. Very shaky looking but definitely a very early autopen as other letters from the era matched it perfectly and it was in fountain pen ink (not printed).
I also heard of JFK using them as early as his Senate days and definitely during his Presidency - I believe either he or Truman was the first to use autopen as a sitting President.
Yes, I agree with all the above.
It's just that letters from that era from Congress often/usually were authentically signed. Not to say Biden didn't hit the ground running with an autopen.
JFK was notorious for his autopen use from the start. Nixon also widely used it as VP in the 1950s.
Off topic but I want to sell my deluxe edition of Renegades by Barack Obama and Bruce Springsteen in which I REMOVED the signed page. The book is pretty much pristine otherwise with slipcase. I want $50 (US shipping [media mail] is included).
I couldn’t find the right sell/trade forum to post this since it’s technically not an autograph but it does relate to autographs. I just want a quick easy sale. eBay is such a hassle so I was hoping to avoid that.
The unsigned version is less than $30 at BJ's so the most likely market is someone who needs a replacement slip case.
My guess is that quite a few people got dented ones in the mail.
I was browsing eBay yesterday and was amazed at how much Presidential preprints and autopens have been bringing. They are clearly advertised as being preprint/autopen. I saw a typical Barack Obama autopen photo sell for over $100 and in the title and description it said “autopen photo.” Another was a printed card with envelope, bringing about $150.
I remember years ago selling my George W. Bush Christmas preprint letter and started the bidding at 99 cents. I was SHOCKED it ended at over $100. I decided to sell my other preprint letter and that brought $37! The typical George W. Bush preprint photos are not as valuable because I think they are super common (I had gotten over ten of them at one point) and Bush still sends them out freely if you send him an email. The other former presidents don’t send out printed letters or photos much these days I have noticed. I have still yet to ever receive ANYTHING from Biden.
The other former presidents don’t send out printed letters or photos much these days I have noticed. I have still yet to ever receive ANYTHING from Biden.
He's too busy tripping over the stairs he climbs.