Honestly though its genius move on the 3 unions parts (MLB, NBA, NFL).. You always take ownership over partnership... I wouldn't be surprised if the major International soccer leagues aren't working on a similar deal. Topps has struggled financially for decades, and now they are worth pennies on the dollar. I would bet anything Fanatics buys Topps. The Topps brand would be a smart buy for Fanatics, then they could go back to the old days where all 3 sports carried the Topps logo.
@brad31 said:
Wow - this is sad news. I cannot imagine a new company run by Fanatics putting out something better. No more Topps, no more Heritage, Bowman, etc.
I'm a bit unclear on how the ownership rights go with some of these brands, based on OPC. Years ago, Upper Deck acquired the OPC brand name, yet Topps remains allowed to issue OPC archives cards long after that business deal, even in recent 2021 sets. I'm guessing they had a clause in the transaction to retain ownership of past designs without putting out truly new material w/ OPC branding?
@GOBUCKS said:
I wouldn't be surprised if the major International soccer leagues aren't working on a similar deal.
Soccer is a bit of a unique situation, with Panini having the majority market share for individual leagues (and for World Football too, which means international play for you non soccer folks out there), yet Topps has the majority market share for Champions League. This means both major companies can issue cards with players in their club kits. However, there are actually tons and tons of different soccer card manufacturers out there, mostly from international places rather than production in North America. There will certainly never be an exclusivity deal with any soccer cards rights with the exception of MLS, since big or small, all the other international companies will continue to produce sets. Panini is not going to let anyone push them out of the soccer market.
Topps statement about their baseball card plans going forward:
“Topps expects to be able to produce substantially all its current licensed baseball products through 2025, pursuant to its existing agreements, and will build on the exceptional performance in the second quarter of 2021 in its Sports & Entertainment segment, and its Confections segment,” the company said.
@Historicalwood71 said:
Lol fanatics????? Talk about watered down crap. If you take Topps away... You take the collecting world away.
ehh. its logical to think that way, but personal bias is influencing that line of thought. topps basically went away for basketball and football. a foreign company by the name of panini and rolled in and have dominated ever since and did much better than topps was doing. i hate to say it but topps and panini have their own selves to blame here. these exclusive league contracts mixed with “well, we are topps” put them under their own spells that they were invincible. the attitude of “weve been here the last 70 years. we’ll dayum sure be here the next 70” is whats responsible for the same lackluster new designs and recycled crap theyve already done. i know there isnt too many modern collectors on this board, but rip open a box of anything topps these days…half the cards are regurgitated classic designs. and while i love the classic designs, it gets to be very underwhelming quickly. year in, year out, same drab.. this year they are at it w the ‘85 inserts. same design 50 different versions across 50 different lines. ‘85 designs in s1, s2, update, ben baller, minis, 3ds, you name it. then youve got the heritage line. started off hot, then as time went on basically ruined it.
anyways, topps will be gone but not forever but certainly not the collecting world. heck, companies like donruss, score, studio, leaf & pro set went away. then bam. all of a sudden they are back under the panini & leaf umbrellas. collectors will still collect. thats what we do. well that and complain about how all this new stuff is garbage…while still collecting it. 😉
@Historicalwood71 said:
Lol fanatics????? Talk about watered down crap. If you take Topps away... You take the collecting world away.
ehh. its logical to think that way, but personal bias is influencing that line of thought. topps basically went away for basketball and football. a foreign company by the name of panini and rolled in and have dominated ever since and did much better than topps was doing. i hate to say it but topps and panini have their own selves to blame here. these exclusive league contracts mixed with “well, we are topps” put them under their own spells that they were invincible. the attitude of “weve been here the last 70 years. we’ll dayum sure be here the next 70” is whats responsible for the same lackluster new designs and recycled crap theyve already done. i know there isnt too many modern collectors on this board, but rip open a box of anything topps these days…half the cards are regurgitated classic designs. and while i love the classic designs, it gets to be very underwhelming quickly. year in, year out, same drab.. this year they are at it w the ‘85 inserts. same design 50 different versions across 50 different lines. ‘85 designs in s1, s2, update, ben baller, minis, 3ds, you name it. then youve got the heritage line. started off hot, then as time went on basically ruined it.
anyways, topps will be gone but not forever but certainly not the collecting world. heck, companies like donruss, score, studio, leaf & pro set went away. then bam. all of a sudden they are back under the panini & leaf umbrellas. collectors will still collect. thats what we do. well that and complain about how all this new stuff is garbage…while still collecting it. 😉
@Historicalwood71 said:
Lol fanatics????? Talk about watered down crap. If you take Topps away... You take the collecting world away.
ehh. its logical to think that way, but personal bias is influencing that line of thought. topps basically went away for basketball and football. a foreign company by the name of panini and rolled in and have dominated ever since and did much better than topps was doing. i hate to say it but topps and panini have their own selves to blame here. these exclusive league contracts mixed with “well, we are topps” put them under their own spells that they were invincible. the attitude of “weve been here the last 70 years. we’ll dayum sure be here the next 70” is whats responsible for the same lackluster new designs and recycled crap theyve already done. i know there isnt too many modern collectors on this board, but rip open a box of anything topps these days…half the cards are regurgitated classic designs. and while i love the classic designs, it gets to be very underwhelming quickly. year in, year out, same drab.. this year they are at it w the ‘85 inserts. same design 50 different versions across 50 different lines. ‘85 designs in s1, s2, update, ben baller, minis, 3ds, you name it. then youve got the heritage line. started off hot, then as time went on basically ruined it.
anyways, topps will be gone but not forever but certainly not the collecting world. heck, companies like donruss, score, studio, leaf & pro set went away. then bam. all of a sudden they are back under the panini & leaf umbrellas. collectors will still collect. thats what we do. well that and complain about how all this new stuff is garbage…while still collecting it. 😉
new stuff is garbage , lol
and i just hate collecting this garbage. back in my day… 😉
@Historicalwood71 said:
Lol fanatics????? Talk about watered down crap. If you take Topps away... You take the collecting world away.
ehh. its logical to think that way, but personal bias is influencing that line of thought. topps basically went away for basketball and football. a foreign company by the name of panini and rolled in and have dominated ever since and did much better than topps was doing. i hate to say it but topps and panini have their own selves to blame here. these exclusive league contracts mixed with “well, we are topps” put them under their own spells that they were invincible. the attitude of “weve been here the last 70 years. we’ll dayum sure be here the next 70” is whats responsible for the same lackluster new designs and recycled crap theyve already done. i know there isnt too many modern collectors on this board, but rip open a box of anything topps these days…half the cards are regurgitated classic designs. and while i love the classic designs, it gets to be very underwhelming quickly. year in, year out, same drab.. this year they are at it w the ‘85 inserts. same design 50 different versions across 50 different lines. ‘85 designs in s1, s2, update, ben baller, minis, 3ds, you name it. then youve got the heritage line. started off hot, then as time went on basically ruined it.
anyways, topps will be gone but not forever but certainly not the collecting world. heck, companies like donruss, score, studio, leaf & pro set went away. then bam. all of a sudden they are back under the panini & leaf umbrellas. collectors will still collect. thats what we do. well that and complain about how all this new stuff is garbage…while still collecting it. 😉
new stuff is garbage , lol
and i just hate collecting this garbage. back in my day… 😉
yup, im a sucker for 1/1 Modern Panamanian Rookie Cards
The better question is how did SPAc / MUDDs whatever its called go through all this work to go public and not have a idea that Topps was in jeopardy of losing MLB license. I would love to see in the past month who and how much MUDDS stock was sold. The whole thing sounds fishy to me.
Wonder if the potential Topps and Mudrick deal was cause in Topps not bidding higher to obtain the license? As they wanted to the balance sheet looking as good as possible. If so a huge tactical error.
Glad I've have not collected post 1980 baseball for over 2 decades. Actually except for non-sport have not collected cards post 1985 this century.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
The better question is how did SPAc / MUDDs whatever its called go through all this work to go public and not have a idea that Topps was in jeopardy of losing MLB license. I would love to see in the past month who and how much MUDDS stock was sold. The whole thing sounds fishy to me.
Wonder if the potential Topps and Mudrick deal was cause in Topps not bidding higher to obtain the license? As they wanted to the balance sheet looking as good as possible. If so a huge tactical error.
Glad I've have not collected post 1980 baseball for over 2 decades. Actually except for non-sport have not collect cards post 1985 this century.
The better question is how did SPAc / MUDDs whatever its called go through all this work to go public and not have a idea that Topps was in jeopardy of losing MLB license. I would love to see in the past month who and how much MUDDS stock was sold. The whole thing sounds fishy to me.
Wonder if the potential Topps and Mudrick deal was cause in Topps not bidding higher to obtain the license? As they wanted to the balance sheet looking as good as possible. If so a huge tactical error.
Glad I've have not collected post 1980 baseball for over 2 decades. Actually except for non-sport have not collect cards post 1985 this century.
no, MLB chosed Fanatics because they would own a share in Fanatics. Its hard to compete against that
I do feel sorry for Topps employee's as the company is now breathing it's last. Even if Fanatics buys them they will probably only be purchasing the name and Intellectual Properties not the company.
Hope MLBPA is happy for eliminating jobs but those poor working folks are not in their union so what do folks like Tony Clark care. BTW I caught a Tony Clark foul liner with my hat at Tiger Stadium in the 90's
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
@82FootballWaxMemorys said:
I do feel sorry for Topps employee's as the company is now breathing it's last. Even if Fanatics buys them they will probably only be purchasing the name and Intellectual Properties not the company.
Hope MLBPA is happy for eliminating jobs but those poor working folks are not in their union so what do folks like Tony Clark care. BTW I caught a Tony Clark foul liner with my hat at Tiger Stadium in the 90's
Players’ entourages will triple in size - so all good.
someone please transport me back to the halcyon days of 1980 when there was only one company, one set, no subsets, no parallels, no redemptions, i didn't once think about what a card might be worth, i didn't once think about how much a player makes................it was simply pure, unadulterated love for the cards. nothing less, nothing more. i can't wait to eviscerate this pack to see what players are inside, not i can't wait to eviscerate this pack to see if there is potentially a card inside that i can send off for a year in hopes that i'll be deemed uber-valuable
the truly ironic thing is that i'd be willing to pay money to go back to a time when it wasn't about money
if/when Topps dies, a part of me will die as well because that name is synonymous with the absolute best collecting days of my life
@galaxy27 said:
someone please transport me back to the halcyon days of 1980 when there was only one company, one set, no subsets, no parallels, no redemptions, i didn't once think about what a card might be worth, i didn't once think about how much a player makes................it was simply pure, unadulterated love for the cards. nothing less, nothing more. i can't wait to eviscerate this pack to see what players are inside, not i can't wait to eviscerate this pack to see if there is potentially a card inside that i can send off for a year in hopes that i'll be deemed uber-valuable
the truly ironic thing is that i'd be willing to pay money to go back to a time when it wasn't about money
if/when Topps dies, a part of me will die as well because that name is synonymous with the absolute best collecting days of my life
A few years is still plenty of time for Topps to enact the continuous rollout of a crapload of Mickey Mantle related items, though... so they still have that going for them.
Great question… reminds me of when GM agreed to a partnership with a ev/hydrogen startup Nikola, only to pull out months later because of the CEOs fraud. Of course no fraud here, but it’s not like it was a given for topps to keep its contract
The better question is how did SPAc / MUDDs whatever its called go through all this work to go public and not have a idea that Topps was in jeopardy of losing MLB license. I would love to see in the past month who and how much MUDDS stock was sold. The whole thing sounds fishy to me.
It’s a shame that Topps flagship and Heritage most likely won’t be around, as it appears Fanatics will do their own thing with cards.
Topps series 1,2 and update were/are often a hit or miss box rip but still a lot of fun for many. And Heritage has a pretty good following on this board.
Topps certainly isn’t perfect but they will be missed.
You know I sort of thought getting the Topps set (at least S1/S2) every year was kinda like the coin collectors' equivalent of routinely having as complete a sequence of mint and/or proof sets as they can. I guess the way it looks now we don't be able to do that and it looks like my own Topps sequence will only be able to cover at most the first 45 years of my life...if God willing I get to make it that far.
I think what a lot of people forget is that Topps makes an absolute ton of money from confections (candy and gum) that is completely and totally independent of the sports cards side of their business. Topps as a company would be just fine continuing to make candy and gum and would continue to make a profit doing so. The sports card side is a legacy thing. Not that it doesn't make them money, but it is where the "Topps" name gets the most attention. I suspect that what will happen is that Fanatics will subcontract the manufacture and packaging of cards out to Topps, along with a purchase of a license to use the name. But design, marketing, product lines etc. will all be decisions made by Fanatics folks who will alter things from how Topps is presently doing business. Fanatics isn't stupid. There is a lot of money to be made by maintaining the legacy that goes with a Topps-branded product. But Topps has been spinning its wheels a bit in the last several years with its lackluster designs and simply repetitive products, and Fanatics will probably fix those problems. I am curious to see how it all plays out, but I am unconvinced that we have seen the last of Topps baseball cards.
kevin
^ exactamundo. what i was trying to hit on earlier that the exclusive contracts they thought would make them bulletproof actually ended up being their demise.
NYPOST said:
Others noted that Topps insisted its budget was tight even as the company in October borrowed $200 million, some of >which was used to pay its owners a dividend.
Man, if this isn't corporate America in one sentence.
I guess as a result Topps is forced to partner with Lil Wayne now. Tha Carter IV trading card collection. Once you jump the shark, there is no looking back. Bye Topps!
@jayhawke said:
I guess as a result Topps is forced to partner with Lil Wayne now. Tha Carter IV trading card collection. Once you jump the shark, there is no looking back. Bye Topps!
And some sort of "Mego" figures too. Branching out.
heres an interesting thing to keep an eye on. fanatics has and still is selling slabbed cards albiet in their own slabs, but still. michael rubin (fanatics founder) is heavily invested in blackstone tactical, the group that just bought csg’s parent company. so basically the only card manuf for basketball, baseball & football cards will most likely be advertised and sold directly in csg slabs.
@blurryface said:
heres an interesting thing to keep an eye on. fanatics has and still is selling slabbed cards albiet in their own slabs, but still. michael rubin (fanatics founder) is heavily invested in blackstone tactical, the group that just bought csg’s parent company. so basically the only card manuf for basketball, baseball & football cards will most likely be advertised and sold directly in csg slabs.
@blurryface said:
heres an interesting thing to keep an eye on. fanatics has and still is selling slabbed cards albiet in their own slabs, but still. michael rubin (fanatics founder) is heavily invested in blackstone tactical, the group that just bought csg’s parent company. so basically the only card manuf for basketball, baseball & football cards will most likely be advertised and sold directly in csg slabs.
Fanatics will have retail, hobby, slabbed and in wrappers, and slabbed and wrapped with “all 10s”. This is going to get silly. Honestly hope they become the go-to for ultra-modern. Then PSA’s tsunami of cards would just be normal rainstorm.
If CSG continues with the grading standards I have scene on vintage (no idea on modern) they are definitely more lenient than PSA, SGC and even BVG.
@tulsaboy said:
The sports card side is a legacy thing. Not that it doesn't make them money, but it is where the "Topps" name gets the most attention. I suspect that what will happen is that Fanatics will subcontract the manufacture and packaging of cards out to Topps, along with a purchase of a license to use the name.
kevin
Doesn't Topps sub out the manufacturing these days? Why would Fanatics sub it out to Topps who then would turn around and sub it out as well? Too many steps means too much money once it hits "the shelves". Highly unlikely.
@brad31 said:
Fanatics will have retail, hobby, slabbed and in wrappers, and slabbed and wrapped with “all 10s”. This is going to get silly. Honestly hope they become the go-to for ultra-modern. Then PSA’s tsunami of cards would just be normal rainstorm.
If CSG continues with the grading standards I have scene on vintage (no idea on modern) they are definitely more lenient than PSA, SGC and even BVG.
If they want to sell 10's direct to customers and are printing out the cards themselves, if a card is not a 10 then just destroy it and grab next one from stack and or invest in high quality machinery + process to insure nearly every card is perfect.
IMHO Fanatics should strive to be extra strict in grading and command a premium for each direct to customer 10 card. The stricter they are perceived overall the more market share they will gain. Of course being lenient gets you initial bucks but over a longer haul costs you potential business and once tarnished the reputation can not be restored. Example, what I feel is a debacle; CBCS in Comics. They looked so promising then soon turned to excrement. Not quite a slab o'death but close.
Glad I'm not a 21st Century Card collector, however at this juncture any true competition in the Grading arena is most welcome so that collectors are not continually run over roughshod by any grading firm. AKA Competition is good.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
@Estil said:
Do kids even collect baseball cards anymore? NOT Pokemon or Magic or anything like that but good ol' baseball cards?
Honestly, no. Besides being priced out of it, young kids have no interest and the 20-somethings’ trading card interests are as you said, magic, Pokémon, and other non sports stuff.
Now one question is, how does Topps pivot? Could they take advantage of the new NIL of the NCAA and get college players involved? Players could cash in on that and schools could make money with their helmet logos showing up in action photos. Also, this could undercut Fanatics with the debate of what is a true rookie card. Sure Fanatics has a rookie card of a guy but Topps beat them by two years. 🤷♂️ Not sure this would work as well with baseball as with football. In football and basketball you know what guys could be stars in a year or two. College baseball players aren’t as well known.
All of that aside I would love to see fanatics do away with all the parallel cards. I’m OK with them wanting to do limited runs of autograph or jersey cards. Or even some card commemorating a mile stone or feat, But please stop with the red, yellow, blue, mosaic, and silver parallels of the basic card. On top of that it would be nice if they would just do a finite number of cards per player. Like they would announce ahead of time that there would only be, say, 250,000 to 500,000 cards made per player and that’s it.
@BBN said:
Now one question is, how does Topps pivot? Could they take advantage of the new NIL of the NCAA and get college players involved? Players could cash in on that and schools could make money with their helmet logos showing up in action photos. Also, this could undercut Fanatics with the debate of what is a true rookie card. Sure Fanatics has a rookie card of a guy but Topps beat them by two years. 🤷♂️ Not sure this would work as well with baseball as with football. In football and basketball you know what guys could be stars in a year or two. College baseball players aren’t as well known.
I love NFL and college cards, but I don't think there is enough market to make college only cards. Leaf beat everyone out for Trevor Lawrence autos by several years in their All-American product. The demand is high but not close to his NFL rookie autos. Upper Deck and Panini have had moderate success with college, but except for a handful of schools, collectors want the NFL uniform.
Topps is screwed. I don't see a future for them in sportscards. Since the leagues and union are part owners in the Fanatics card business, I don't see an opening for Topps or Panini unless Fanatics really screws it up and kills the golden goose.
@ndleo said:
I love NFL and college cards, but I don't think there is enough market to make college only cards.
Sage has been making college-only cards for 2 decades.
Topps is screwed. I don't see a future for them in sportscards. Since the leagues and union are part owners in the Fanatics card business, I don't see an opening for Topps or Panini unless Fanatics really screws it up and kills the golden goose.
I do agree that Topps will be hurt by this. I strongly believe Fanatics will buy the Topps name for their cards.
@ElvisP said:
So happy I have no desire for new cards.
This I do not understand. Do you watch sports? Don't you want to still collect some of your favorite players?
I am located in the DMV area and like collecting the cards of Ovie, Soto, Beal,etc...
Plus I love the thrill of the rip, always have since I was a kid.
I don't get modern only vs vintage only debate. It's a hobby and collect what you want. I collect both. I have my complaints about the modern hobby but I find a way to enjoy it. I really enjoyed the Leaf products this year and it looks like Donruss FB is coming back down to earth.
Fanatics hasn't done anything yet to the modern hobby except blow up the bonuses the lazy Topps execs were about to cash in.
@Estil said:
Do kids even collect baseball cards anymore? NOT Pokemon or Magic or anything like that but good ol' baseball cards?
Honestly, no. Besides being priced out of it, young kids have no interest and the 20-somethings’ trading card interests are as you said, magic, Pokémon, and other non sports stuff.
Hey I like some of the non-sports stuff myself...in fact one of the first ever non-sport sets I ever both was the ALF ones (don't ask) plus I got all three Topps Desert Shield sets (I even sprung for the 9/11 set right after it came out), the Pro Set Presidents set that I got in 6th grade, the 1994 Harvest Heritage set (I'd love the 1995 set but it's next to impossible to find), among others.
But it's just sad that our beloved hobby is in danger of aging out (like...I dunno...that making ships in a bottle thing?). We may be in the "nostalgic sweet spot" when it comes to the Golden Age of video games (16-bit/4th gen) but over time that too will shift to later gens if it hasn't already.
Hey I like some of the non-sports stuff myself...in fact one of the first ever non-sport sets I ever both was the ALF ones (don't ask) plus I got all three Topps Desert Shield sets (I even sprung for the 9/11 set right after it came out), the Pro Set Presidents set that I got in 6th grade, the 1994 Harvest Heritage set (I'd love the 1995 set but it's next to impossible to find), among others.
Ha! I never knew Alf had a set, and I bought multiple packs of the Desert Shield cards. I don’t know what I ever did with them. Kind of wish I would’ve kept them as unopened packs.
I think sports cards will survive at a smaller scale but I have a feeling it’ll go more the route of investing and less about the hobby.
I strongly believe Fanatics will buy the Topps name for their cards.
This makes sense, especially if Topps is going down as a company. They will sell assets including the name to the highest bidder. This will be like when Hostess went down. Everyone panicking that Twinkies will disappear forever.
Topps is not “going down”. They have some good soccer licenses, F1 and WWE. They have contracts with a significant number of minor league players and a mechanism to sign future players to contracts. Will do prospect sets for baseball, one off player sets like they did for Trevor Lawrence and some all time great sets. They will survive but be less profitable than when they had MLB. If Fanatics wants them there is still value there and it will not be a buying a name from a company that is bankrupt.
@brad31 said:
Topps is not “going down”. They have some good soccer licenses, F1 and WWE. They have contracts with a significant number of minor league players and a mechanism to sign future players to contracts. Will do prospect sets for baseball, one off player sets like they did for Trevor Lawrence and some all time great sets. They will survive but be less profitable than when they had MLB. If Fanatics wants them there is still value there and it will not be a buying out of name for a company that is bankrupt.
I agree. People also forget that a good chunk of Topps' business, and its profitability, is centered around confections and not sports cards. Things like Ring Pops. Not to say that losing sports cards won't hurt Topps, but the entity would still be a profitable business without cards. I can still certainly see Fanatics buying Topps and then spinning off the confections to ditch a business they don't have an interest in.
kevin
Comments
Honestly though its genius move on the 3 unions parts (MLB, NBA, NFL).. You always take ownership over partnership... I wouldn't be surprised if the major International soccer leagues aren't working on a similar deal. Topps has struggled financially for decades, and now they are worth pennies on the dollar. I would bet anything Fanatics buys Topps. The Topps brand would be a smart buy for Fanatics, then they could go back to the old days where all 3 sports carried the Topps logo.
I'm a bit unclear on how the ownership rights go with some of these brands, based on OPC. Years ago, Upper Deck acquired the OPC brand name, yet Topps remains allowed to issue OPC archives cards long after that business deal, even in recent 2021 sets. I'm guessing they had a clause in the transaction to retain ownership of past designs without putting out truly new material w/ OPC branding?
Soccer is a bit of a unique situation, with Panini having the majority market share for individual leagues (and for World Football too, which means international play for you non soccer folks out there), yet Topps has the majority market share for Champions League. This means both major companies can issue cards with players in their club kits. However, there are actually tons and tons of different soccer card manufacturers out there, mostly from international places rather than production in North America. There will certainly never be an exclusivity deal with any soccer cards rights with the exception of MLS, since big or small, all the other international companies will continue to produce sets. Panini is not going to let anyone push them out of the soccer market.
All things must pass.
But still gross.
saucywombat@hotmail.com
Topps statement about their baseball card plans going forward:
“Topps expects to be able to produce substantially all its current licensed baseball products through 2025, pursuant to its existing agreements, and will build on the exceptional performance in the second quarter of 2021 in its Sports & Entertainment segment, and its Confections segment,” the company said.
ehh. its logical to think that way, but personal bias is influencing that line of thought. topps basically went away for basketball and football. a foreign company by the name of panini and rolled in and have dominated ever since and did much better than topps was doing. i hate to say it but topps and panini have their own selves to blame here. these exclusive league contracts mixed with “well, we are topps” put them under their own spells that they were invincible. the attitude of “weve been here the last 70 years. we’ll dayum sure be here the next 70” is whats responsible for the same lackluster new designs and recycled crap theyve already done. i know there isnt too many modern collectors on this board, but rip open a box of anything topps these days…half the cards are regurgitated classic designs. and while i love the classic designs, it gets to be very underwhelming quickly. year in, year out, same drab.. this year they are at it w the ‘85 inserts. same design 50 different versions across 50 different lines. ‘85 designs in s1, s2, update, ben baller, minis, 3ds, you name it. then youve got the heritage line. started off hot, then as time went on basically ruined it.
anyways, topps will be gone but not forever but certainly not the collecting world. heck, companies like donruss, score, studio, leaf & pro set went away. then bam. all of a sudden they are back under the panini & leaf umbrellas. collectors will still collect. thats what we do. well that and complain about how all this new stuff is garbage…while still collecting it. 😉
new stuff is garbage , lol
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_from_Panama
and i just hate collecting this garbage. back in my day… 😉
yup, im a sucker for 1/1 Modern Panamanian Rookie Cards
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_from_Panama
Wonder if the potential Topps and Mudrick deal was cause in Topps not bidding higher to obtain the license? As they wanted to the balance sheet looking as good as possible. If so a huge tactical error.
Glad I've have not collected post 1980 baseball for over 2 decades. Actually except for non-sport have not collected cards post 1985 this century.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
ill start collection graded funkos
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_from_Panama
no, MLB chosed Fanatics because they would own a share in Fanatics. Its hard to compete against that
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_from_Panama
I do feel sorry for Topps employee's as the company is now breathing it's last. Even if Fanatics buys them they will probably only be purchasing the name and Intellectual Properties not the company.
Hope MLBPA is happy for eliminating jobs but those poor working folks are not in their union so what do folks like Tony Clark care. BTW I caught a Tony Clark foul liner with my hat at Tiger Stadium in the 90's
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Players’ entourages will triple in size - so all good.
someone please transport me back to the halcyon days of 1980 when there was only one company, one set, no subsets, no parallels, no redemptions, i didn't once think about what a card might be worth, i didn't once think about how much a player makes................it was simply pure, unadulterated love for the cards. nothing less, nothing more. i can't wait to eviscerate this pack to see what players are inside, not i can't wait to eviscerate this pack to see if there is potentially a card inside that i can send off for a year in hopes that i'll be deemed uber-valuable
the truly ironic thing is that i'd be willing to pay money to go back to a time when it wasn't about money
if/when Topps dies, a part of me will die as well because that name is synonymous with the absolute best collecting days of my life
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
Very well said!
A few years is still plenty of time for Topps to enact the continuous rollout of a crapload of Mickey Mantle related items, though... so they still have that going for them.
Great question… reminds me of when GM agreed to a partnership with a ev/hydrogen startup Nikola, only to pull out months later because of the CEOs fraud. Of course no fraud here, but it’s not like it was a given for topps to keep its contract
Appears it’s official that Fanatics has also acquired the NBA license as well:
https://mobile.twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1429768201920000001?s=20
My title would be: Two fundamentally corrupt sports leagues with weak leadership screw over long time ally.
Business is business I reckon.
It’s a shame that Topps flagship and Heritage most likely won’t be around, as it appears Fanatics will do their own thing with cards.
Topps series 1,2 and update were/are often a hit or miss box rip but still a lot of fun for many. And Heritage has a pretty good following on this board.
Topps certainly isn’t perfect but they will be missed.
You know I sort of thought getting the Topps set (at least S1/S2) every year was kinda like the coin collectors' equivalent of routinely having as complete a sequence of mint and/or proof sets as they can. I guess the way it looks now we don't be able to do that and it looks like my own Topps sequence will only be able to cover at most the first 45 years of my life...if God willing I get to make it that far.
D's: 54S,53P,50P,49S,45D+S,44S,43D,41S,40D+S,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 37,38,47,151,193,241,435,570,610,654,655 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings,Rising Stars
I wonder when Topps or Panini America will make an official statement about any of this?
Would they reveal any plans for at least 2022 now that the shock has subsided?
I think what a lot of people forget is that Topps makes an absolute ton of money from confections (candy and gum) that is completely and totally independent of the sports cards side of their business. Topps as a company would be just fine continuing to make candy and gum and would continue to make a profit doing so. The sports card side is a legacy thing. Not that it doesn't make them money, but it is where the "Topps" name gets the most attention. I suspect that what will happen is that Fanatics will subcontract the manufacture and packaging of cards out to Topps, along with a purchase of a license to use the name. But design, marketing, product lines etc. will all be decisions made by Fanatics folks who will alter things from how Topps is presently doing business. Fanatics isn't stupid. There is a lot of money to be made by maintaining the legacy that goes with a Topps-branded product. But Topps has been spinning its wheels a bit in the last several years with its lackluster designs and simply repetitive products, and Fanatics will probably fix those problems. I am curious to see how it all plays out, but I am unconvinced that we have seen the last of Topps baseball cards.
kevin
Good article about the whole Topps/MLB/Fanatics fiasco.
Looks like Topps was pocketing the money and not investing in the business. Basically what we saw in the hobby, Topps got lazy.
https://nypost.com/2021/08/30/michael-eisner-caught-blindsided-by-mlb-breakup-with-topps/
And literally paid the price for their lazy ways.
^ exactamundo. what i was trying to hit on earlier that the exclusive contracts they thought would make them bulletproof actually ended up being their demise.
Excellent article, especially this:
Man, if this isn't corporate America in one sentence.
I guess as a result Topps is forced to partner with Lil Wayne now. Tha Carter IV trading card collection. Once you jump the shark, there is no looking back. Bye Topps!
And some sort of "Mego" figures too. Branching out.
heres an interesting thing to keep an eye on. fanatics has and still is selling slabbed cards albiet in their own slabs, but still. michael rubin (fanatics founder) is heavily invested in blackstone tactical, the group that just bought csg’s parent company. so basically the only card manuf for basketball, baseball & football cards will most likely be advertised and sold directly in csg slabs.
too funny. announced today…
Is this the CSG D&A have on its site?
Fanatics will have retail, hobby, slabbed and in wrappers, and slabbed and wrapped with “all 10s”. This is going to get silly. Honestly hope they become the go-to for ultra-modern. Then PSA’s tsunami of cards would just be normal rainstorm.
If CSG continues with the grading standards I have scene on vintage (no idea on modern) they are definitely more lenient than PSA, SGC and even BVG.
Doesn't Topps sub out the manufacturing these days? Why would Fanatics sub it out to Topps who then would turn around and sub it out as well? Too many steps means too much money once it hits "the shelves". Highly unlikely.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
If they want to sell 10's direct to customers and are printing out the cards themselves, if a card is not a 10 then just destroy it and grab next one from stack and or invest in high quality machinery + process to insure nearly every card is perfect.
IMHO Fanatics should strive to be extra strict in grading and command a premium for each direct to customer 10 card. The stricter they are perceived overall the more market share they will gain. Of course being lenient gets you initial bucks but over a longer haul costs you potential business and once tarnished the reputation can not be restored. Example, what I feel is a debacle; CBCS in Comics. They looked so promising then soon turned to excrement. Not quite a slab o'death but close.
Glad I'm not a 21st Century Card collector, however at this juncture any true competition in the Grading arena is most welcome so that collectors are not continually run over roughshod by any grading firm. AKA Competition is good.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Honestly, no. Besides being priced out of it, young kids have no interest and the 20-somethings’ trading card interests are as you said, magic, Pokémon, and other non sports stuff.
Positive BST Transactions (buyers and sellers): wondercoin, blu62vette, BAJJERFAN, privatecoin, blu62vette, AlanLastufka, privatecoin
#1 1951 Bowman Los Angeles Rams Team Set
#2 1980 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
#8 (and climbing) 1972 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
Now one question is, how does Topps pivot? Could they take advantage of the new NIL of the NCAA and get college players involved? Players could cash in on that and schools could make money with their helmet logos showing up in action photos. Also, this could undercut Fanatics with the debate of what is a true rookie card. Sure Fanatics has a rookie card of a guy but Topps beat them by two years. 🤷♂️ Not sure this would work as well with baseball as with football. In football and basketball you know what guys could be stars in a year or two. College baseball players aren’t as well known.
All of that aside I would love to see fanatics do away with all the parallel cards. I’m OK with them wanting to do limited runs of autograph or jersey cards. Or even some card commemorating a mile stone or feat, But please stop with the red, yellow, blue, mosaic, and silver parallels of the basic card. On top of that it would be nice if they would just do a finite number of cards per player. Like they would announce ahead of time that there would only be, say, 250,000 to 500,000 cards made per player and that’s it.
Positive BST Transactions (buyers and sellers): wondercoin, blu62vette, BAJJERFAN, privatecoin, blu62vette, AlanLastufka, privatecoin
#1 1951 Bowman Los Angeles Rams Team Set
#2 1980 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
#8 (and climbing) 1972 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
I love NFL and college cards, but I don't think there is enough market to make college only cards. Leaf beat everyone out for Trevor Lawrence autos by several years in their All-American product. The demand is high but not close to his NFL rookie autos. Upper Deck and Panini have had moderate success with college, but except for a handful of schools, collectors want the NFL uniform.
Topps is screwed. I don't see a future for them in sportscards. Since the leagues and union are part owners in the Fanatics card business, I don't see an opening for Topps or Panini unless Fanatics really screws it up and kills the golden goose.
Sage has been making college-only cards for 2 decades.
I do agree that Topps will be hurt by this. I strongly believe Fanatics will buy the Topps name for their cards.
BBCE will get 100% of my hobby money, instead of 95%.
c'est la vie
So happy I have no desire for new cards.
This I do not understand. Do you watch sports? Don't you want to still collect some of your favorite players?
I am located in the DMV area and like collecting the cards of Ovie, Soto, Beal,etc...
Plus I love the thrill of the rip, always have since I was a kid.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
I don't get modern only vs vintage only debate. It's a hobby and collect what you want. I collect both. I have my complaints about the modern hobby but I find a way to enjoy it. I really enjoyed the Leaf products this year and it looks like Donruss FB is coming back down to earth.
Fanatics hasn't done anything yet to the modern hobby except blow up the bonuses the lazy Topps execs were about to cash in.
Hey I like some of the non-sports stuff myself...in fact one of the first ever non-sport sets I ever both was the ALF ones (don't ask) plus I got all three Topps Desert Shield sets (I even sprung for the 9/11 set right after it came out), the Pro Set Presidents set that I got in 6th grade, the 1994 Harvest Heritage set (I'd love the 1995 set but it's next to impossible to find), among others.
But it's just sad that our beloved hobby is in danger of aging out (like...I dunno...that making ships in a bottle thing?). We may be in the "nostalgic sweet spot" when it comes to the Golden Age of video games (16-bit/4th gen) but over time that too will shift to later gens if it hasn't already.
D's: 54S,53P,50P,49S,45D+S,44S,43D,41S,40D+S,39D+S,38D+S,37D+S,36S,35D+S,all 16-34's
Q's: 52S,47S,46S,40S,39S,38S,37D+S,36D+S,35D,34D,32D+S
74T: 37,38,47,151,193,241,435,570,610,654,655 97 Finest silver: 115,135,139,145,310
73T:31,55,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,80,152,165,189,213,235,237,257,341,344,377,379,390,422,433,453,480,497,545,554,563,580,606,613,630
95 Ultra GM Sets: Golden Prospects,HR Kings,On-Base Leaders,Power Plus,RBI Kings,Rising Stars
Ha! I never knew Alf had a set, and I bought multiple packs of the Desert Shield cards. I don’t know what I ever did with them. Kind of wish I would’ve kept them as unopened packs.
I think sports cards will survive at a smaller scale but I have a feeling it’ll go more the route of investing and less about the hobby.
Positive BST Transactions (buyers and sellers): wondercoin, blu62vette, BAJJERFAN, privatecoin, blu62vette, AlanLastufka, privatecoin
#1 1951 Bowman Los Angeles Rams Team Set
#2 1980 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
#8 (and climbing) 1972 Topps Los Angeles Rams Team Set
I strongly believe Fanatics will buy the Topps name for their cards.
This makes sense, especially if Topps is going down as a company. They will sell assets including the name to the highest bidder. This will be like when Hostess went down. Everyone panicking that Twinkies will disappear forever.
Topps is not “going down”. They have some good soccer licenses, F1 and WWE. They have contracts with a significant number of minor league players and a mechanism to sign future players to contracts. Will do prospect sets for baseball, one off player sets like they did for Trevor Lawrence and some all time great sets. They will survive but be less profitable than when they had MLB. If Fanatics wants them there is still value there and it will not be a buying a name from a company that is bankrupt.
My bad on WWE as I missed they signed with fanatics. However still stand by my larger point.
I agree. People also forget that a good chunk of Topps' business, and its profitability, is centered around confections and not sports cards. Things like Ring Pops. Not to say that losing sports cards won't hurt Topps, but the entity would still be a profitable business without cards. I can still certainly see Fanatics buying Topps and then spinning off the confections to ditch a business they don't have an interest in.
kevin