New ASE's with the missing reed- WHY

gumby1234

How does leaving 1 reed off the ASE make it any less prone to counterfeiting? It seems to me the counterfeiter would just leave off that 1 reed as well.

JBK

Nonsense. Maybe someone could fake the coin, but fake the reading as well?

I guess a counterfeiter who is not observant will mess up.

MetroD

I agree with your point. That said, I am not sure that the missing reed is all the Mint did to enhance security.

Per this interview with Ryder back in 2019, the Mint was pursuing a three-tiered approach.

~ Level #1 - an overt feature for the general public;
~ Level #2 - a trade-specific feature;
~ Level #3 - a covert feature for forensic detection.

The relevant segment starts at 7:24.

gumby1234

Interesting but I wish he went into more detail about the anti-counterfeiting measures.

MetroD

Me too.

I am assuming that the lack of details is intentional. They probably want to keep the L2 and L3 measures, if implemented, a 'secret' for as long as possible.

JBK

Not sure what #2 is, but #3 could be some kind of marker mixed with the metal like they do with the new pound coins in the UK. The only issue with that would be that they are supposed to be pure silver.

Oldhoopster

@JBK said:
Not sure what #2 is, but #3 could be some kind of marker mixed with the metal like they do with the new pound coins in the UK. The only issue with that would be that they are supposed to be pure silver.

PPM (parts per million) levels of an addition would not affect .999 or .9999 fine bullion. Depending on the tracer element addition, detecting a few PPM shouldn't be too difficult.

When I worked in the glass industry, we would evaluate the convection currents (very important to proper mixing) of a 500,000 lb tank by tossing in 500 grams of a materials like cerium oxide and yttrium oxide at various locations and then seeing when they start coming out the bottom.

Maybe send a couple of samples to @jmlanzaf and he can have his students figure out the tracer. Sounds like a good chemistry/materials science project.

jmlanzaf

@Oldhoopster said:

@JBK said:
Not sure what #2 is, but #3 could be some kind of marker mixed with the metal like they do with the new pound coins in the UK. The only issue with that would be that they are supposed to be pure silver.

PPM (parts per million) levels of an addition would not affect .999 or .9999 fine bullion. Depending on the tracer element addition, detecting a few PPM shouldn't be too difficult.

When I worked in the glass industry, we would evaluate the convection currents (very important to proper mixing) of a 500,000 lb tank by tossing in 500 grams of a materials like cerium oxide and yttrium oxide at various locations and then seeing when they start coming out the bottom.

Maybe send a couple of samples to @jmlanzaf and he can have his students figure out the tracer. Sounds like a good chemistry/materials science project.

We could do a trace metal analysis non-destructively

JBK

Hmmm. Is there a chance for 2021 metal mules? T1 Silver Eagles made from T2 metal? I assume that it might be common.

gumby1234

@JBK maybe a T1 with a missing reed?