Las Vegas Vault Silver Dollars

USMC

I recently picked up 12 silver dollars with dates
from 1880 - 1904. These came from the Binion's
silver hoard (Binion's Casino). They have headers
"Las Vegas Vault" - If I wanted them reholdered in
PCGS slabs, would they be labeled the same as
NGC - Las Vegas Vault ??
Below is one of the silver dollars .....

Al Varelas / USMC

Jzyskowski1

All 12 are certified. Why would you want to spend $300-$500 to reholder them? That’s a lot of money for plastic. Ofcourse to each their own. But dang 😳

USMC

Because they come from the Benny Binion silver hoard, are they
worth a little more than the non hoard coin - or not?
Al / USMC

SPalladino

@USMC said:
Because they come from the Benny Binion silver hoard, are they
worth a little more than the non hoard coin - or not?
Al / USMC

But whether they are or are not worth a little more is not relevant. They are graded and labeled Las Vegas Vault Collection already.
Your not going to break them out and submit them - you would lose the "provenance".
Then ask yourself what reason is there to cross them over to PCGS, and PCGS did agree to label them Les Vegas Vault Collection? Higher resale value?...not likely enough to offset shipping, insurance, grading, and then the cost of selling them. PCGS Registry?...maybe that is the only reason, but then is it worth the cost to add to your PCGS registry.

291fifth

There is no mention of Binion on the label. I find the "Las Vegas Vault Collection" to be of little interest. I personally would pay no premium for them.

jmlanzaf

@291fifth said:
There is no mention of Binion on the label. I find the "Las Vegas Vault Collection" to be of little interest. I personally would pay no premium for them.

@USMC said:
Because they come from the Benny Binion silver hoard, are they
worth a little more than the non hoard coin - or not?
Al / USMC

They usually have a very slight premium. Certainly not enough to justify spending money reholdering them

JBK

Is there a link between Binion and the label reference?

In any case, NGC guaranteed the provenance, but PCGS presumably would not.

I had a 9/11 WTC recovery coin in a PCGS slab and I asked a PCGS representative at a coin show if it could be reholdered and he said I'd lose the special label. And that was from the original grading company.

AUandAG

@USMC said:
Because they come from the Benny Binion silver hoard, are they
worth a little more than the non hoard coin - or not?
Al / USMC

No these are not Binion dollars or from his hoard.

No premium as they are or in PCGS plastic with or without the label. These are just dollars from Vegas, baby!

bob

gumby1234

@USMC I would just keep the coins in the holders that they are in UNLESS they were severely under graded which I doubt. You would spend way more money than would be worth regrading.

davewesen

I doubt they would put anything on the label (beside grade) as they can not verify it.

Jzyskowski1

These say biniun. I know nothing about them so I’m happy to learn 🤓”

Fishpro

They might not cross at the current grade, more cost.

MetroD

I just checked the 1885-O on the PCGS website. Link

Unless I missed it, there is no 'coin number/variety' specific to Las Vegas.

If accurate, no Vegas-specific designation is available from PCGS should you decide to 'crossover'.
IOW, they will not add "Las Vegas Vault Collection" to the label.

Edited for clarity.

gumby1234

@Jzyskowski1 1878S is super common but the seller states that its a Key date coin. Not sure what holders (NCS maybe) but I wouldn't buy any of those 3 coins and I love a nice Morgan dollar.

jmlanzaf

@gumby1234 said:
@Jzyskowski1 1878S is super common but the seller states that its a Key date coin. Not sure what holders (NCS maybe) but I wouldn't buy any of those 3 coins and I love a nice Morgan dollar.

Is not a common date, however. "Key" overstated it. I would have called it a "better date", but I'm not prone to hype.

gumby1234

Any coin with these kind of numbers i consider super common.

MFeld

@gumby1234 said:
Any coin with these kind of numbers i consider super common.

If you consider that date “super common”, how would you refer to the 1881-S, with a PCGS population of approximately five times that of the 1878-S? There’s both absolute rarity and relative rarity to consider.

gumby1234

Also super common. In certain grades all the morgans can be rare. Am 1878 S in 67DMPL probably very tough

gumby1234

According to the PCGS survival estimates there are more than 1.2 million mint state survivors. Even in 65 and up they estimate 49 thousand. Dont get me wrong I love the early S mint Morgans. They can look absolutely stunning. I love my 80S and its only MS64.

gumby1234

Here's an excerpt from a blog online that seems pretty accurate to me.

Jzyskowski1

Those coins were randomly selected simply for conversation. Bunion was subject and silver dollars are not on my radar. Peace everyone. 🤓

MFeld

@gumby1234 said:
Here's an excerpt from a blog online that seems pretty accurate to me.

If those are “better dates”, what are the rare and very rare dates?

gumby1234

Rare and very rare dates are better dates.

jmlanzaf

@gumby1234 said:
Also super common. In certain grades all the morgans can be rare. Am 1878 S in 67DMPL probably very tough

I will buy all the 1878-S dollars you have at the 1881-S price.

The fact is that the 1878-S does sell for more and is not found in bulk rolls of common dates. It is a "better date".

gumby1234

Better date than an 81S but there is and never will be a shortage of 78S Morgans. Every dealer that sells Morgans has them and every collector that wants one has one.

MFeld

@gumby1234 said:
Rare and very rare dates are better dates.

You apparently have a different classification system than most people I know.
Ask100 numismatists whether they’d describe an 1893-S as a “better” date or a “rare” date and see for yourself.

gumby1234

Better dates on any coin are usually a little tougher to acquire. Every dealer doesn't have better dates in stock and they aren't all over eBay either.

gumby1234

1893S is definitely rare especially in high grade.
In parenthesis in the blog it states that some that are listed are downright rare.

gumby1234

I just don't consider a coin with nearly 3 million survivg examples with almost half of those in MS to be anything but super common. Maybe thats just me.

MFeld

@gumby1234 said:
1893S is definitely rare especially in high grade.
In parenthesis in the blog it states that some that are listed are downright rare.

In which case, it would be more accurate to include the rare dates on a list of “rare” dates, not “better” dates.

gumby1234

@MFeld said:

@gumby1234 said:
1893S is definitely rare especially in high grade.
In parenthesis in the blog it states that some that are listed are downright rare.

In which case, it would be more accurate to include the rare dates on a list of “rare” dates, not “better” dates.

Yes I agree with that

Jzyskowski1

Dang guys I’ll be more careful when posting. This is a thread about binion but now it’s hijacked by a pissing contest about Morgan’s in general 🤓.

MFeld

@Jzyskowski1 said:
Dang guys I’ll be more careful when posting. This is a thread about binion but now it’s hijacked by a pissing contest about Morgan’s in general 🤓.

Actually, the thread started out about “Las Vegas Vault Collection” coins.😈

Jzyskowski1

@MFeld said:

@Jzyskowski1 said:
Dang guys I’ll be more careful when posting. This is a thread about binion but now it’s hijacked by a pissing contest about Morgan’s in general 🤓.

Actually, the thread started out about “Las Vegas Vault Collection” coins.😈

I stand corrected 🙀😂😈

keyman64

My opinion: Common coins and no premium for the label. Think about this, take them to most any dealer and try to sell them. What are they willing to pay you for them. You can do the same with experienced collectors as well. If they won't pay more than 5-10% less than what you paid then you definitely paid too much. If there are scarce varieties in the bunch then that might save you but you would have to get them attributed which would add to your cost. If you truly find some scare varieties in the bunch then you could be good. I try to avoid common coins like the plague. There would be no financial benefit to crossing common coins to PCGS holders, even if you could get Las Vegas on the label. Here again, my opinion, assuming they are all common coins.

Fishpro

I just sold a 93-S in VG 6 for $2750, not a coin you see every day.

gumby1234

@Fishpro that a tough date in any grade.

derryb

likely was a special label for a specific high volume customer. Unique from NGC.

gumby1234

So this is what PCGS has to say about rarity 1.0 I called the 78S super common. They call it very common. Same difference

MFeld

@gumby1234 said:
So this is what PCGS has to say about rarity 1.0 I called the 78S super common. They call it very common. Same difference

Call it whatever you wish. The 1878-S doesn’t trade as a common date at a common date price. Please feel free to have the last word.

gumby1234

@MFeld thats PCGS. I dont work for them or influence their rarity scales. Higher grades 65 and up definitely scarcer. Below that very common.

DelawareDoons

78-s falls into that group that I call "slightly better dates" in MS. 81-O is another one. 79 plain, etc.

jmlanzaf

@gumby1234 said:
@MFeld thats PCGS. I dont work for them or influence their rarity scales. Higher grades 65 and up definitely scarcer. Below that very common.

The market does not view the 1881-S and the 1878-S as equivalent. No matter the semantics, the price is not the same.

coinandcurrency242

Not a dollar, but still this coin has the Las Vegas tag on it.

Jzyskowski1

@coinandcurrency242 said:
Not a dollar, but still this coin has the Las Vegas tag on it.

Well what do you know there’s a horse of a similar dang color 🐴😁

gumby1234

@jmlanzaf You are correct. 81S is super very common. More so than the 78S. That was never in dispute.