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Baseball is dying, the game is slow, too many strikeouts and home runs. We've heard it all before.

1948_Swell_Robinson1948_Swell_Robinson Posts: 1,923 ✭✭✭✭✭

https://www.si.com/mlb/2019/08/29/baseball-is-dying-history

Above is a link to an article that shows various points in time where it was being written that baseball is dying. You see much of the same complaints; too many strikeouts, too many home runs, etc... What people tend to do is compare the game to the exact game it was when they first learned it and if it is any different than that game then there is something wrong with the game in their mind.

People who followed baseball in the 1970's and 80's complain that there are too many strikeouts and too many home runs now. To them the 8 strikeouts per MLB game today is obscene to the five strikeouts per game in the 1980's. Thing is, in the 1980's the old timers complained about the five strikeouts per game being too many compared to the two strikeouts per game in the 1920's.

There is a very real "get off my lawn' element in all of that and it seems to be human nature that very few humans can distance themselves from.

The fact is that pitchers are throwing harder than ever, and are also taller and bigger than ever. Nolan Ryan was a spectacle in the 1970's and 1980's. There are several pitchers with his arsenal now and they are also taller and with better command. The natural result is that more strikeouts are going to happen and it will be harder to string more hits together to produce runs. The strategy of going for home runs ends up being the optimum strategy to secure runs in the current pitching environment.

Just like the hitters did against Ryan back then. They didn't get a lot of hits off of Ryan. They had to get walks and hit home runs off of him to score runs...and they struck out a ton agains his type of velocity. Now the league is filled with Ryan level arsenals, but with taller pitchers and better command....and in order to score runs you need to get walks and hit home runs because stringing together hits is hard.

Not a knock on Ryan, he would be striking them out at high rates today too. And his longevity is amazing.

When the starter comes out after six innings, then three taller guys throwing even harder come in..all with command and the requisite breaking pitches.

The MLB average fastball was 88.6 MPH in 2002 and has been steadily climbing and was up to 93.1 MPH in 2020. That is an absolute significant increase.

This is a chart that only goes up to 2016.

https://theatlas.com/charts/S1-DccGC

They aren't just out there firing fastballs as hard as they can either. They have command. They are actually throwing breaking pitches more often now too(and they are filthier than ever and spin rate can attest to that). They most certainly are being trained to maximize velocity(without losing command)...and it is showing.

In addition to throwing harder, the pitchers are getting taller and stronger as well....releasing the ball closer to home plate more than ever before.

Average MLB pitcher height in 1960 was six foot one and 190 pounds.
Average MLB pitcher height in 2000 was six foot two and 197 pounds.
Average MLB pitcher height in 2019 was six foot three and 215 pounds.

There may be a human limit to velocity, some guys had it in the past, but now there are simply more people in the world to choose from that could possess such natural ability, and they are being trained better to develop it, so there are simply more of them possessing 95+ with command on the MLB level. We are talking BILLIONS more available arms and athletes to choose from. That is a number that is almost impossible to comprehend, but has a very real effect and we are seeing it in the size/ability of these athletes.

Pretty soon, nearly every MLB pitcher will be TALL and throwing 95+...and without such ability it will be very hard to land a job in the game, with only the absolute best control/breaking pitch artists surviving without it...and those guys will still be throwing 90MPH and be north of six feet tall.

On the flip side, the hitters are off the charts themselves. Make a mistake and nearly every guy in the lineup can make you pay dearly. These hitters are doing what they are doing off of much better pitching. The worst guys in the MLB lineup would look much better hitting off pitchers three inches smaller and throwing five miles an hour slower...and would obviously strike out much less against that type of pitching.

People have their tastes on how the game is played, but there is no denying how good these players are today.

Enjoy them. Welcome them to your lawn and have a beer with them instead. Then talk some baseball.

Comments

  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭

    For me it's just the pure length of the games. I just dont have that kind of time to invest anymore. For me it's just the WS and watch highlights during the regular season.

    I do agree with a lot of what you mentioned above.

    m

    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • 1948_Swell_Robinson1948_Swell_Robinson Posts: 1,923 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 12, 2021 12:55PM

    @Justacommeman said:
    For me it's just the pure length of the games. I just dont have that kind of time to invest anymore. For me it's just the WS and watch highlights during the regular season.

    I do agree with a lot of what you mentioned above.

    m

    I start out like gangbusters in April catching many full games...but that dwindles as the year goes on and get busy. I almost always have MLB network on while I'm packaging cards and stuff though. Or during morning coffee. I can't watch ESPN. I don't think I have watched ESPN since 2001.

    And I sometimes fall asleep during the playoffs as those games start too late and too many breaks...and have to get up in the morning.

  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 12, 2021 1:00PM

    @1948_Swell_Robinson said:

    @Justacommeman said:
    For me it's just the pure length of the games. I just dont have that kind of time to invest anymore. For me it's just the WS and watch highlights during the regular season.

    I do agree with a lot of what you mentioned above.

    m

    I start out like gangbusters in April catching many full games...but that dwindles as the year goes on and get busy. I almost always have MLB network on while I'm packaging cards and stuff though. Or during morning coffee. I can't watch ESPN. I don't think I have watched ESPN since 2001.

    I only watch ESPN for actual games of sports I like. That and 30/30. Sportscenter is indeed so last century. My highlight watching is all on my phone. I pick and choose as my selected alerts come up on my time. I still love watching the WS in its entirety and elimination playoff games on occasion.

    m

    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • EstilEstil Posts: 7,058 ✭✭✭✭

    In 1962 they wanted more color and more colorful players...almost a decade later they got their wish (well what they players were wearing anyway)! :blush:

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  • dallasactuarydallasactuary Posts: 4,326 ✭✭✭✭✭

    There are a lot more pitchers who can throw as fast as Nolan Ryan and that's going to mean more strikeouts. In theory, that should also mean shorter games. But along with more Nolan Ryans came a lot more Mike Hargroves (nickname: the human rain delay). If Nolan Ryan were pitching today, he would still be great and still headed for the HOF. If Mike Hargrove were batting today, nobody would notice how long his at bats took because everyone's at bats take just as long now. Easy problem to fix, if MLB would just grow a pair and fix it.

    This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
  • TabeTabe Posts: 6,061 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @dallasactuary said:
    There are a lot more pitchers who can throw as fast as Nolan Ryan and that's going to mean more strikeouts. In theory, that should also mean shorter games. But along with more Nolan Ryans came a lot more Mike Hargroves (nickname: the human rain delay). If Nolan Ryan were pitching today, he would still be great and still headed for the HOF. If Mike Hargrove were batting today, nobody would notice how long his at bats took because everyone's at bats take just as long now. Easy problem to fix, if MLB would just grow a pair and fix it.

    Imitating Mike Hargrove is definitely part of the problem. I think at least one other factor is in play:

    Hitters take more pitches now. I have no data to support this, just an anecdotal gut feel. Walks are valued far more now so a lot more guys are willing to take more pitches.

    I also wonder if pitchers throw more balls now than before, regardless of the hitter. Unsure on this one.

  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I will say that the White Sox vs Yankees at the Field of Dreams in Iowa is fun. Just saw a highlight of a homerun

    m

    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • robert67robert67 Posts: 1,342 ✭✭✭✭

    @Justacommeman said:
    I will say that the White Sox vs Yankees at the Field of Dreams in Iowa is fun. Just saw a highlight of a homerun

    m

    The entire game and pre-game has been a lot of fun.

    MLB has actually done something right tonight.

    Let's hope they can build on this.

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 33,088 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I can’t believe there was talk about ending defensive shifts.

    :/

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  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 33,088 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Justacommeman said:
    I will say that the White Sox vs Yankees at the Field of Dreams in Iowa is fun. Just saw a highlight of a homerun

    Watch the newest highlights.

    Game is over.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,693 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 12, 2021 7:18PM

    The length of the games and the increase in strikeouts dont bother me. It's the rule changes (starting extra innings with a runner on 2nd~reminds me of penalty kicks or the shootout in hockey to wrap up games played to a draw, 7-inning games and forcing a reliever to pitch to three batters minimum). The game was just fine for decades and decades before that, leave well enough alone.



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  • 1948_Swell_Robinson1948_Swell_Robinson Posts: 1,923 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @grote15 said:
    The length of the games and the increase in strikeouts dont bother me. It's the rule changes (starting extra innings with a runner on 2nd~reminds me of penalty kicks or the shootout in hockey to wrap up games played to a draw, 7-inning games and forcing a reliever to pitch to three batters minimum). The game was just fine for decades and decades before that, leave well enough alone.

    I agree. Leave it be.

    The only thing I never liked in the past 25 years is how late some of the playoff games start, and how late they end. As soon as I get comfortable in a chair at night it is only a matter of time before the eyes get heavy, no matter what is on. Forget about staying up past midnight to watch the end when you have to work the next day(hard for me at least).

  • tommyrusty7tommyrusty7 Posts: 2,022 ✭✭✭✭

    @MsMorrisine said:
    I can’t believe there was talk about ending defensive shifts.

    :/ I hate those defensive shifts and hope they do do away with them.

  • Great job! The only thing I see wrong with baseball is pitchers not going 7 or 8 innings anymore. It's like they do 4 to 6 constantly. The older pitchers had some serious stamina and didn't wear out the bullpen for the most part. Now we're seeing 7 different pitchers or more mostly in games. Things do change however.

  • tommyrusty7tommyrusty7 Posts: 2,022 ✭✭✭✭

    If the games are too long for anybody then just record them and watch what you want of them. You can then eliminate the commercials or anything else you don't want to see. Just start watching games an hour after they start and you may find them more enjoyable.

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