Bill Mazeroski - it this bizzaro world? Seriously a barely .260 hitter. Guess a WS winning home run get you in. If it had been against any team but the Yankees I seriously doubt he gets in. Yes Ozzie's BA only slight higher but Ozzie had 110% higher War
Red Schoendienst - yes he was good but it's not a hall of above average.
It's not a Hall of Above Average, and it's also not a Hall of Hitting Stats. Bill Mazeroski, whether you agree or not being beside the point, is almost universally regarded as the best fielding second baseman in history. That is worth honoring, and induction to the Hall of Fame was that honor.
Schoendienst, while never regarded as the best in history, was an outstanding second baseman, would have won 10 or so Gold Gloves had they existed at the time, winner of 2 World Series as a player and another as a manager, and a 10-time All Star. He's certainly not the most deserving HOFer, but if I'm ever charged with thinning out the Hall I'm going to drop Rice, Hunter, Morris, Baines and several dozen others before Red's name even gets considered. He had a career, as a player, manager, and coach, that included a whole lot worth honoring. Interesting side note: Schoendienst was blind in one eye due to a childhood accident. How hard do you think it is to hit major league pitching with only one eye? Damn hard, that's how hard.
This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
Schoendienst and Mazeroski are very strange candidates or a "travesty" list. Mazeroski most certainly didn't get enshrined due to one WS game, but Morris apparently did. Then people backfilled the story to pretend Morris was a borderline HoFer, and that game tipped the scales.
I really don't think Baines belongs in a hall of "above average".
@dallasactuary said: hard do you think it is to hit major league pitching with only one eye? Damn hard, that's how hard.
So you think Jim Abbott should be in the Hall? Overcoming physical challenges is admirable but also irrelevant for Hall consideration.
You got me, that's exactly what I said. No, wait, that's not what I said. Let me spend two seconds rereading what I did say. Yep, that's what I thought. I said Schoendienst being blind in one eye was an "interesting side note". So if, in the future, I am discussing Ken Harrelson and mention as an "interesting side note" that he quit baseball to try out for the PGA Tour, please do not mistake that for an argument that Harrelson should be in the HOF.
This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
if I'm ever charged with thinning out the Hall I'm going to drop Rice, Hunter, Morris, Baines and several dozen others
Hunter unlike the others was not a Veteran's Committee selection. Catfish was a 3rd ballot Hall-of-Famer in 1987.
Post 1970s players being elected by the BBWAA I feel carries far more of a cachet than multiple DUI [It's PUBLIC RECORD] offender LaRussa's nepotism.
When you get down to it Hunter was elected by the BBWAA for 5 consecutive years of dominance in the 1970's. Similar to Koufax's 5-6 consecutive years in the 1960's. Although Koufax's 1962-1966 stretch arguable the most dominant of any pitcher in history.
1 MVP, 2 2nd Place MVP finishes, 3 Cy Youngs back when it was one in all of MLB (otherwise he would have had 4 in a row, 2 WS MVP's, 3 25+ win season - man that was some 4 year stretch from 1963-1966.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
@dallasactuary said: hard do you think it is to hit major league pitching with only one eye? Damn hard, that's how hard.
So you think Jim Abbott should be in the Hall? Overcoming physical challenges is admirable but also irrelevant for Hall consideration.
You got me, that's exactly what I said. No, wait, that's not what I said. Let me spend two seconds rereading what I did say. Yep, that's what I thought. I said Schoendienst being blind in one eye was an "interesting side note". So if, in the future, I am discussing Ken Harrelson and mention as an "interesting side note" that he quit baseball to try out for the PGA Tour, please do not mistake that for an argument that Harrelson should be in the HOF.
Except that now he is...
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
@dallasactuary said: hard do you think it is to hit major league pitching with only one eye? Damn hard, that's how hard.
So you think Jim Abbott should be in the Hall? Overcoming physical challenges is admirable but also irrelevant for Hall consideration.
You got me, that's exactly what I said. No, wait, that's not what I said. Let me spend two seconds rereading what I did say. Yep, that's what I thought. I said Schoendienst being blind in one eye was an "interesting side note". So if, in the future, I am discussing Ken Harrelson and mention as an "interesting side note" that he quit baseball to try out for the PGA Tour, please do not mistake that for an argument that Harrelson should be in the HOF.
Wait. I'm confused. Did you just say Harrelson should be in the Baseball HoF or the Golf HoF? This is so confusing!
When you get down to it Hunter was elected by the BBWAA for 5 consecutive years of dominance in the 1970's. Similar to Koufax's 5-6 consecutive years in the 1960's.
You got me! I thought you were being serious. I won't make that mistake again.
This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
if I'm ever charged with thinning out the Hall I'm going to drop Rice, Hunter, Morris, Baines and several dozen others
Hunter unlike the others was not a Veteran's Committee selection. Catfish was a 3rd ballot Hall-of-Famer in 1987.
Post 1970s players being elected by the BBWAA I feel carries far more of a cachet than multiple DUI [It's PUBLIC RECORD] offender LaRussa's nepotism.
When you get down to it Hunter was elected by the BBWAA for 5 consecutive years of dominance in the 1970's. Similar to Koufax's 5-6 consecutive years in the 1960's. Although Koufax's 1962-1966 stretch arguable the most dominant of any pitcher in history.
1 MVP, 2 2nd Place MVP finishes, 3 Cy Youngs back when it was one in all of MLB (otherwise he would have had 4 in a row, 2 WS MVP's, 3 25+ win season - man that was some 4 year stretch from 1963-1966.
Explain to me how Koufax's years from 1963-66 make Hunter a HoFer?
It's hard to class any of his years as "dominant" except 1975, and even then Palmer was better and Kaat and Tanana were just as good.
Comments
It's not a Hall of Above Average, and it's also not a Hall of Hitting Stats. Bill Mazeroski, whether you agree or not being beside the point, is almost universally regarded as the best fielding second baseman in history. That is worth honoring, and induction to the Hall of Fame was that honor.
Schoendienst, while never regarded as the best in history, was an outstanding second baseman, would have won 10 or so Gold Gloves had they existed at the time, winner of 2 World Series as a player and another as a manager, and a 10-time All Star. He's certainly not the most deserving HOFer, but if I'm ever charged with thinning out the Hall I'm going to drop Rice, Hunter, Morris, Baines and several dozen others before Red's name even gets considered. He had a career, as a player, manager, and coach, that included a whole lot worth honoring. Interesting side note: Schoendienst was blind in one eye due to a childhood accident. How hard do you think it is to hit major league pitching with only one eye? Damn hard, that's how hard.
Schoendienst and Mazeroski are very strange candidates or a "travesty" list. Mazeroski most certainly didn't get enshrined due to one WS game, but Morris apparently did. Then people backfilled the story to pretend Morris was a borderline HoFer, and that game tipped the scales.
I really don't think Baines belongs in a hall of "above average".
So you think Jim Abbott should be in the Hall? Overcoming physical challenges is admirable but also irrelevant for Hall consideration.
You got me, that's exactly what I said. No, wait, that's not what I said. Let me spend two seconds rereading what I did say. Yep, that's what I thought. I said Schoendienst being blind in one eye was an "interesting side note". So if, in the future, I am discussing Ken Harrelson and mention as an "interesting side note" that he quit baseball to try out for the PGA Tour, please do not mistake that for an argument that Harrelson should be in the HOF.
Hunter unlike the others was not a Veteran's Committee selection. Catfish was a 3rd ballot Hall-of-Famer in 1987.
Post 1970s players being elected by the BBWAA I feel carries far more of a cachet than multiple DUI [It's PUBLIC RECORD] offender LaRussa's nepotism.
When you get down to it Hunter was elected by the BBWAA for 5 consecutive years of dominance in the 1970's. Similar to Koufax's 5-6 consecutive years in the 1960's. Although Koufax's 1962-1966 stretch arguable the most dominant of any pitcher in history.
1 MVP, 2 2nd Place MVP finishes, 3 Cy Youngs back when it was one in all of MLB (otherwise he would have had 4 in a row, 2 WS MVP's, 3 25+ win season - man that was some 4 year stretch from 1963-1966.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Except that now he is...
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Wait. I'm confused. Did you just say Harrelson should be in the Baseball HoF or the Golf HoF? This is so confusing!
You got me! I thought you were being serious. I won't make that mistake again.
Explain to me how Koufax's years from 1963-66 make Hunter a HoFer?
It's hard to class any of his years as "dominant" except 1975, and even then Palmer was better and Kaat and Tanana were just as good.