How is 1980s unopened product doing at The National?

Publius1787

Wondering if anyone at The National in Chicago has a sense of how 1980s unopened product is doing at this year's National? Is it moving? How are prices? I have noticed that the usual online dealers of vintage unopened have had inventory recently (last year they couldn't keep material on the website before it was snatched up) and over time prices have been creeping down. I've been buying a little, but wonder if there is more room for prices to go down. Hoping the experience at The National will provide information.

grote15

A 6-box sealed case of 1983 Topps baseball rack packs was priced at 18K by BBCE.

Estil

@grote15 said:
A 6-box sealed case of 1983 Topps baseball rack packs was priced at 18K by BBCE.

That's not really saying much though...I mean how many sealed cases you reckon would even be left by now? That's the thing about unopened material...it can only get gradually scarcer as time goes on. While the supply of PSA graded cards can only gradually go up as more and more people send cards in to try their luck (or at least it would/will once this whole virus thing completely runs its course).

grote15

@Estil said:

@grote15 said:
A 6-box sealed case of 1983 Topps baseball rack packs was priced at 18K by BBCE.

That's not really saying much though...I mean how many sealed cases you reckon would even be left by now? That's the thing about unopened material...it can only get gradually scarcer as time goes on. While the supply of PSA graded cards can only gradually go up as more and more people send cards in to try their luck (or at least it would/will once this whole virus thing completely runs its course).

My statement was in response to the OP asking specifically about prices for 1980s unopened. I guess you missed that part of his post.

In any event, the case sold quickly, even before general admission, which was not surprising.

gemint

I don't have much info on how the 80s are doing but Steve did sell 4 1971 wax boxes and maybe a 1968 wax box for $500k before the show even started. I say maybe on the 1968 because I thought he said it was part of the package but I also heard that it wasn't. If it wasn't, you can still get that 1st series wax box for the low, low price of $95,000.

thebighurt35

I got an 84 Fleer Baseball unopened wax box about 8 years ago on eBay for around $75, just sold wholesale for $350...not a bad investment. Glad I never ripped...definitely worth keeping unwrapped for the long haul.

Estil

Will Steve post his "leftovers" on his website or something? I'm trying to rebuild a nice wax/rack pack collection of the 80s/early 90s like I had back 10-15 years ago before I STUPIDLY sold it off

tulsaboy

I suspect there is a profound difference between premier (or rare) items, like the 6 box 1983 Topps rack case or the 1971 wax boxes (which are, to date, one of a kind,) versus more run of the mill things like a 1984 wax box or a stack of 1983 rack packs. The latter are a dime a dozen, relatively speaking, and I think there is plenty of room for those to retreat. The other stuff, like the 71s or the 68 box, are probably only destined to continue to climb. I would guess that the National is experiencing a whole pile of people with pent up demand and spare cash on their hands. A more interesting barometer of the market, I believe, will be next year's National.
kevin

2dueces

Scuttle butt is that this product is flying off the shelves.

mexpo75

I was going to ask also if Steve would have some type of flash sales of things after the National. If anyone here is at the show, can you ask him and report back to her?

grote15

BBCE is going to list for sale on the site any unsold items from the National.

Publius1787

Thanks so much for the comments, everyone! Glad to hear that some rare stuff is moving. Does anyone have photos of the BBCE booth? I'm really interesting in the shelves with baseball wax boxes, the selection and prices. In past years Sports Collectors Daily posted video on YouTube and would run the camera over the Topps, Donruss, and Fleer shelves. Really good way to see the increase in prices from one year to the next. 1984 T baseball was like $85 in 2018. Now its probably over $300.

beachbumcollecting

@tulsaboy said:
I suspect there is a profound difference between premier (or rare) items, like the 6 box 1983 Topps rack case or the 1971 wax boxes (which are, to date, one of a kind,) versus more run of the mill things like a 1984 wax box or a stack of 1983 rack packs. The latter are a dime a dozen, relatively speaking, and I think there is plenty of room for those to retreat. The other stuff, like the 71s or the 68 box, are probably only destined to continue to climb. I would guess that the National is experiencing a whole pile of people with pent up demand and spare cash on their hands. A more interesting barometer of the market, I believe, will be next year's National.
kevin

it seems one man's spare cash is another man's retirement fund these days

ghooper33

I don’t collect unopened, but I took a few random pics of 80’s unopened I came across (sorry for the crappy pics - hopefully you can zoom in to see the prices).

Estil

Wow; I would indeed like some of those boxes for my unopened box collection as well as rack packs from the 80s/early 90s that I need...I tried asking a few places on Ebay and would you believe at least a couple of the "get assortment of random packs" places on ebay won't sell me specific packs? :P

Estil

@grote15 said:
BBCE is going to list for sale on the site any unsold items from the National.

I sure hope so!

thehallmark

ghooper's pics are a good representative of what was available Fri/Sat all over the floor. Tons of junk era stuff, the best and worst of it, all at the high end of the recent ranges. I would say that those boxes and were getting A LOT more attention than in years past. Also, a couple of booths specialized in unopened single packs, both graded and ungraded. Those booths were catnip to the non-shiny crowd.

Stone193

I did notice in the walk thru someone did - at BBCE - an 80T box was going for like 5K?

He was selling them a while back at 10K - looks like they've settled way down.

I thought I saw a 79T wax box at 4 grand - that's a bit higher than a few years back.

Overall, IMO, unopened will always be a keeper in one's collection.

robert67

@Stone193 said:
I did notice in the walk thru someone did - at BBCE - an 80T box was going for like 5K?

He was selling them a while back at 10K - looks like they've settled way down.

I thought I saw a 79T wax box at 4 grand - that's a bit higher than a few years back.

Overall, IMO, unopened will always be a keeper in one's collection.

Agree 100% about unopened as a keeper in the collection.

Too bad it took me 45 years of collecting to start doing it! 😂

Griffins

@2dueces said:
Scuttle butt is that this product is flying off the shelves.

Must be another scuba trip coming up.

Estil

Well I jotted down what me and my wife got in each of the 33 packs of 1987 Topps we had opened together (there's still three left) and here's a few eh, interesting highlights:

No McGwires but we did get two Bonds...one of which also included Bill Buckner (remember my wife was from Greater Boston), Boggs All-Star, Ripken All-Star so I reckon that was the most "loaded" pack of the bunch.

Bill Buckner and Mookie Wilson in consecutive packs...this is the year after Bill's infamous blunder, remember?

Alan Trammell and Lou Whitaker together in sequence in the same pack...I mean weren't they every bit as much like Waylon/Willie?

Steve Carlton & Carlton Fisk together in sequence in the same pack...you know, like that Before & After category in Wheel of Fortune: STEVE CARLTON FISK?

Both Pete Rose (last Topps player card) and Pete Rose MGR card in the same pack

PS: And yes in her loving memory I put the cards back in the packs just like she did.

PPS: Sorry Rojay, but for opening those last three 1987 Topps packs I don't have a straight razor, pliers or measuring tape (I got the packs from BBCE so surely I don't have to worry about trimmed cards) and I will have to "just open them with my bare hands" I will do my best though to open the packs "nice and easy" and "let the corners breathe" (I didn't know corners had lungs though...) and I think I do have a card or two from the opened packs with the gum stuck on them Luckily I don't smoke...

https://youtu.be/pzRdS-HbM74

KendallCat

Some BBCE photos from the National.

daltex

@Estil said:
Well I jotted down what me and my wife got in each of the 33 packs of 1987 Topps we had opened together (there's still three left) and here's a few eh, interesting highlights:

Steve Carlton & Carlton Fisk together in sequence in the same pack...you know, like that Before & After category in Wheel of Fortune: STEVE CARLTON FISK?

I guess you've never seen this card before (1982 Fleer 632)?

Estil

Well that is one thing but having them both in the same pack consecutively though...what are the odds of that?

mikelowell25

@KendallCat said:

Some BBCE photos from the National.

Keith, I believe only the first and third pics are from the BBCE booth--all the other ones are from Heritage's booth as all of those items are in their next auction.

KendallCat

You are probably right but can never go wrong with unopened photos - basketball packs are definitely Heritage now that I think about it 🤔

Ahmanfan

How much are those tallboy basketball packs? Are they 69 or 70? thanks if anyone knows.

coinspacks

@Ahmanfan said:
How much are those tallboy basketball packs? Are they 69 or 70? thanks if anyone knows.

1969...a box worth on heritage auction now. Bid and they can be yours. Currently at $210k with the premium.

Ahmanfan

@coinspacks said:

@Ahmanfan said:
How much are those tallboy basketball packs? Are they 69 or 70? thanks if anyone knows.

1969...a box worth on heritage auction now. Bid and they can be yours. Currently at $210k with the premium.

Let me call the realtor...

olb31

the 1983 topps rack pack case for $18,000 sounds high to me. You would need about 10 Tony Gwynn's to graded PSA 10, to even have a remote chance of breaking even. Even at $8,000 it doesn't sound like a real good deal.

tulsaboy

@olb31 said:
the 1983 topps rack pack case for $18,000 sounds high to me. You would need about 10 Tony Gwynn's to graded PSA 10, to even have a remote chance of breaking even. Even at $8,000 it doesn't sound like a real good deal.

In the unopened pricing realm, it's not about the contents necessarily. It is most often about the relative rarity of the actual unopened item. In this case, a 6 box rack case from 1983. Three box cases are around but have gotten harder to find in the last few years as the FASC craze has caused people to send them to BBCE to be opened and then the boxes wrapped. 6 box cases are almost impossible to find. The purchaser was, I am confident, buying it for the scarcity of a 6 box unopened case as opposed to the possible return he might make if he busted the case and graded key cards. On top of that, FASC 1983 rack boxes will likely continue to appreciate. Here those boxes are valued at $3000 per. I suspect the purchaser also thinks that in the next decade those boxes will only appreciate.

kevin

blurryface

with regards to keeping and holding wax, i agree for the most part. but as i learned w the 2016 run up on hof rookie cards, sometimes you just gotta take the cash. prior to that eye opening run-up, there was always this preconceived notion that once i sold something, it was gone. or once it was gone, itd be almost impossible to replace. or even some degree of just feeling bad about selling off in general.

w/ the covid run-up, i wasnt gonna fall victim again. the picture below just reaffirms my position. think i let a 77 non fasc go for $10k and a fasc box direct for $25k at the height of the lunacy. same goes w/ some ‘80 non & fasc boxes i let fly. i let a ton of other things go as well that were rare, per say but not necessarily irreplaceable. obviously my new mindset doesnt coincide w/ a ton of the items seen in alot of these pictures above. but seeing as this is an 80s wax thread and even stretching the dates back to ‘77, sometimes you just gotta get while the getting is good. nothing in that range of dates, wax wise, is really impossible to replace. ive already bought a few items back for near 50¢ on the dollar. the “regrets” thing works both ways, luckily the “shoulda cashed out” regret wasnt an issue this go around.

1959

It is nice to look at the asking prices of these boxes, but what were the 80's( 85, 86, 87 ) actually selling for? Did anyone buy the so-called Junk wax.?

grote15

@olb31 said:
the 1983 topps rack pack case for $18,000 sounds high to me. You would need about 10 Tony Gwynn's to graded PSA 10, to even have a remote chance of breaking even. Even at $8,000 it doesn't sound like a real good deal.

Have you seen the prices for generic 1983 boxes over the past few months? 18K (3K per FASC rack box) is actually a very good price for that case, especially when you consider just how rare a 6-box case is. Anyone can buy a PSA 10 Gwynn RC any day of the week, but you won't find a sealed case like that one nearly as easily.

Estil

@coinspacks said:

@Ahmanfan said:
How much are those tallboy basketball packs? Are they 69 or 70? thanks if anyone knows.

1969...a box worth on heritage auction now. Bid and they can be yours. Currently at $210k with the premium.

They must have multi-millionaires at that show! Especially that one who thought nothing of putting down that huge pile of $100 packs for a carton of 1986-97 Fleer b-ball...

https://youtu.be/ETxmCCsMoD0

PS: Before anyone asks, the currency in the first half or so of the video is the Swedish krona, which is where ABBA is originally from.

Publius1787

Looks like BBCE has posted the inventory from the National on the website. A lot of great items over there. The late-1970s and 1980s material I saw in National photos and videos did not seem to sell. I've been buying very little over the last few months and I really feel strongly that the next 6 - 12 months will give enough time for the increase in values to during the pandemic to correct. I will continue to wait and I think values at next year's National will be a lot more reasonable. Just my opinion.

robert67

Great to see them list those items in a timely fashion.

It seems that a lot of the items I have interest in have been slightly reduced in price, although I couldn't prove it.

That could be delusional thinking on my part.😂

Estil

@Publius1787 said:
Looks like BBCE has posted the inventory from the National on the website. A lot of great items over there. The late-1970s and 1980s material I saw in National photos and videos did not seem to sell. I've been buying very little over the last few months and I really feel strongly that the next 6 - 12 months will give enough time for the increase in values to during the pandemic to correct. I will continue to wait and I think values at next year's National will be a lot more reasonable. Just my opinion.

Yes I did in fact grab some for my collection...as STUPID as it was of me to sell my nice college days era unopened pack collection (I honest to goodness had one of every 80s pack) at least this time my rebuilt collection will be even better and (mostly) backed by BBCE. I even now was able to pick up a few cartons (I started with a 1986-92 sequence of Topps wax cartons from BBCE maybe a year or two ago?) as well.

Sadly I don't think I'll get to make anymore significant purchases anytime soon but I'm glad I was able to at least get what I did when I did.

Estil

@1959 said:
It is nice to look at the asking prices of these boxes, but what were the 80's( 85, 86, 87 ) actually selling for? Did anyone buy the so-called Junk wax.?

Naw it looks like most of the merchandise shown thus far was for these kind of guys...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lexhv8MaXQ8

PS: At 2:03 -- Did Wells Fargo sneak in a product placement?

rcmb3220

When is the last time they had cases of anything pre 1990 on their site?

Estil

@rcmb3220 said:
When is the last time they had cases of anything pre 1990 on their site?

IIRC they did have some cases of late 80s Topps for <$200? I can sort of see the appeal but that'd take up a lot of space and would be a bit boring in appearance compared to colorful packs and cartons.

grote15

@rcmb3220 said:
When is the last time they had cases of anything pre 1990 on their site?

They've had a couple of rack cases from 1982-1984 over the past year but they usually don't last long.

NJ80sBBC

Hey Tim,
I must have missed them. I would be curious to know what current market is for 82-85 rack cases. Saw the$18k on the6box 83case, which in my opinion is a fair price. Anyone have insight on 82,84, 85?

Thanks
John

grote15

@NJ80sBBC said:
Hey Tim,
I must have missed them. I would be curious to know what current market is for 82-85 rack cases. Saw the$18k on the6box 83case, which in my opinion is a fair price. Anyone have insight on 82,84, 85?

Thanks
John

Hi John,

I dont recall exactly what the pricing was but I recall the 82 case (which I considered purchasing) was about 6K at the time.

rcmb3220

And just like that some solid 1980s cases show up

Estil

Hopefully there's still more coming up that might be more in my price range (such as it is )...