1794 $1 CF page + other 1794 Dollar Show n Tell/Inquiries - Shared Dies?

LanceNewmanOCC

is there something special about the xf40 having the top spot above ms66s?

LanceNewmanOCC

also, the 1794 $1 SP page doesn't have a MAX image. it has the code for it but not the image.

nevermind, it is the second image, not the first.

LanceNewmanOCC

now THIS is M.M.A.M.!!!

Dr_Bones

They rotate the pictures sometimes. If you scroll down the page, it shows condition census rankings. So what is pictured largest on the page it not necessarily the top coin

LanceNewmanOCC

did this coin come from the SP66 die(s)?

Floridafacelifter

@LanceNewmanOCC said:

The XF40 is mine……it’s okay……for now…..

LanceNewmanOCC

@Floridafacelifter said:
The XF40 is mine……it’s okay……for now…..

nice! that is the single most mint made adjusted marked coin i've seen to-date.

i was just thinking of the irony of coins like this especially where SO much money, time, talent etc was put forth for these beautiful dollars. heck, they even lost sleep over some grains of silver. all that and they blow it by mangling the beautiful coins all that they had just produced by trying to save a little bit of money.

obvious, most of us accept the coins with the marks and they are graded and should be but man alive would i love to have been there to ask them WHY!

Floridafacelifter

@LanceNewmanOCC said:

@Floridafacelifter said:
The XF40 is mine……it’s okay……for now…..

Haha yep the reverse was why I bought it- super crazy adjustment marks (too much coffee that morning perhaps?) and nice definition to the eagle’s wings and head.

LanceNewmanOCC

ColonelJessup

@Floridafacelifter said:

@LanceNewmanOCC said:

The XF40 is mine……it’s okay……for now…..

It doesn't suck as bad as it might

@LanceNewmanOCC said:

@Floridafacelifter said:
The XF40 is mine……it’s okay……for now…..

nice! that is the single most mint made adjusted marked coin i've seen to-date.

i was just thinking of the irony of coins like this especially where SO much money, time, talent etc was put forth for these beautiful dollars. heck, they even lost sleep over some grains of silver. all that and they blow it by mangling the beautiful coins all that they had just produced by trying to save a little bit of money.

obvious, most of us accept the coins with the marks and they are graded and should be but man alive would i love to have been there to ask them WHY!

WHY? Adjustments with the file were done to the raw planchet before striking. The only quality control principle being maintained was proper weight. Mangling was very efficient.

LanceNewmanOCC

@ColonelJessup said:
WHY? Adjustments with the file were done to the raw planchet before striking. The only quality control principle being maintained was proper weight.

.
are you asking me, "why ask why?"

ColonelJessup

@LanceNewmanOCC said:

@ColonelJessup said:
WHY? Adjustments with the file were done to the raw planchet before striking. The only quality control principle being maintained was proper weight.

.
are you asking me, "why ask why?"

Why would I ask you "why ask why?
No, Just repeating the issue I was addressing.

Why would you ask me why I asked you why?

Please continue with your excellent topic while I practice counter-prolixity

MsMorrisine

perhaps if they left extra silver on a coin the rims would be filed...

LanceNewmanOCC

@ColonelJessup said:
Why would I ask you "why ask why?
No, Just repeating the issue I was addressing.

Why would you ask me why I asked you why?

Please continue with your excellent topic while I practice counter-prolixity

you are a hoot!

here is my canned response while i was waiting for you to postulate the circular dynamic of my integral question of, why ask why.

i would ask why because:

they go through all the master-level effort and then at the last 1%, they say, oh they're a staggering
few grains too heavy, how do we fix it? well duh, get a file and desecrate the works of art we just created, well of course. smh

filing the rims after all that went into making these beautiful dollars is akin to:

artists signing their work right in the middle

a maybach with the leftover paint just splashed against the side of the vehicle just to say it is economical to use
all of it

etc

that is literally the best they could come up with for the first silver dollars? these are supposedly
world-class artists, engravers, managers, perhaps blacksmiths etc and it is just odd. imo

i mean seriously; being accurate is impressive but how many shavings would have to come off of those coins before they recouped one whole new dollar and at the cost of mangling their creations. some real dr. jekyll and mr. hyde or frankenstein and his creation.

ok, i concede, i digress.

tradedollarnut

Point of fact - they mangled them and THEN struck them

Do carry on…

ColonelJessup

@LanceNewmanOCC said:

nice! that is the single most mint made adjusted marked coin i've seen to-date.

i was just thinking of the irony of coins like this especially where SO much money, time, talent etc was put forth for these beautiful dollars. heck, they even lost sleep over some grains of silver. all that and they blow it by mangling the beautiful coins all that they had just produced by trying to save a little bit of money.

obvious, most of us accept the coins with the marks and they are graded and should be but man alive would i love to have been there to ask them WHY!

WHY? Adjustments with the file were done to the raw planchet before striking. The only quality control principle being maintained was proper weight. Mangling was very efficient.

@tradedollarnut said:
Point of fact - they mangled them and THEN struck them

@ColonelJessup said:

@LanceNewmanOCC said:

@ColonelJessup said:
WHY? Adjustments with the file were done to the raw planchet before striking. The only quality control principle being maintained was proper weight.

.
are you asking me, "why ask why?"

Why would I ask you "why ask why?
No, Just repeating the issue I was addressing.

Why would you ask me why I asked you why?

Because...

Jeez

ilmcoins

@Floridafacelifter said:

@LanceNewmanOCC said:

The XF40 is mine……it’s okay……for now…..

Was that your purchase in 2014?

LanceNewmanOCC

@ColonelJessup said:
Because...

Jeez

i'm not piling on here but after reading a lot of the missives from those RB transcriptions, including the many i helped with, they seemed nothing more than absolute statesmen about every insignificant detail and being professional and listening to the public about odd things found on coins and trying to put out essentially the best product possible and aside from the gold coins, they seem to have chosen the biggest, most noticeable coins, obviously not that many people in that time ever owned one let alone seen one.

i honestly was hoping someone would chime in or link an archived thread as to how they seemed to cut this one corner and it is such a big corner and honestly, if it werent for the plugs and so many other MMAM dollars, i'd almost not even believe it was the mint that approved/settled for such a crude method to achieve such precision. NOW, if after they were struck, most of the lines became difficult to see, somewhat like the plugs, that would be one thing.

i'm not stuck on it, i'm just not sure my mind will ever accept that they found this method apropos. meh, in the realm of human behaviour, this doesn't even make the top 1000.

i do appreciate the participation though.

tradedollarnut

You do realize what the penalty was at the time for not striking coins at the proper weight - right?

MsMorrisine

Lighter Cheque?

Nysoto

There is not much in the early US Mint archives about adjustment marks. The Mint did employ 5 "adjusters" by 1795, two of them were women, and the Mint continued to have adjusters well into the 19th century. Adjustment marks were from finer files by 1796, and by 1807 they were not seen on silver coins as the edges were filed and not across the surface.

The following is a copy from a 2019 post of mine that explains the reason for the extensive adjustment marks in 1794-95:

Mint Director Henry William De Saussure, October 27, 1795, just before his resignation, "Great delays were incurred in obtaining the heavy iron-work, particularly the rollers; and these were not always fit for use, when obtained. Those which are now in use almost being worn out, I have been striving to replace them with the fine Andover iron."

The Mint could not roll planchet strips within thickness tolerances to make legal weight in 1794-95, so they relied on adjusting for overweight planchets, and some plugs on mostly dollars for underweight planchets. Plugging a half-dime would not be feasible, and evidently the Mint erred on the high side with the half-dime planchet strips and relied on adjusting to correct the weight, rather than throwing too-thin planchets back into the melting pot to go through the lengthy process again.

The NJ Andover Iron Works was shutting down by 1795, if the Mint obtained any "fine Andover Iron" it would have been on the secondary market. [I emailed the author of the book on the Andover Ironworks and no records exist of Mint transactions.]

LanceNewmanOCC

@tradedollarnut said:
You do realize what the penalty was at the time for not striking coins at the proper weight - right?

i recall reading from the various colonies centered around some currency/coin issues and they did not have any sense of humor about any of it, so while i hope those extreme measures had tapered off by this time, apparently not based on how you asked that question.

what were the risks and penalties?

Nic

@LanceNewmanOCC said:
did this coin come from the SP66 die(s)?

My old coin and great. Wonderful strike.
Does not have the fabric of TDN's coin.
Die rotations are not my thing. Wished I would have bought the copper 94 when I had the chance.