Here is an old story offered as a tribute to Sen. Bob Dole who passed away yesterday. It took 98 years, physical infirmity, and stage 4 lung cancer to bring him down.
Many years ago Senator Bob Dole and his wife wrote a book. I figured the big challenge would be to get his authentic signature rather than an autopen. So, I sent it to him first and I thankfully got it back inscribed and signed by him.
I then sent it to his wife Elizabeth Dole, who was head of the Anerican Red Cross at the time. It came back with her autopen signature.
I wrote to her to let her know how upset I was about it, and she apologized for her overzealous staff and she included another copy of the book authentically inscribed and signed by her and signed by her husband.
Back in 2005 I purchased a “Short Snorter” (they were currency notes signed by servicemen during WWII and they carried them with them because if they failed to produce it upon request they had to pay for everyone’s drinks). What made this particular Short Snorter interesting was that it was signed on a Hawaii note. For those not familiar with U.S. Currency, Hawaii notes were issued during WWII to be used on the Hawaiian Islands so that in the event the Japanese captured Hawaii the U.S. Government could declare the currency invalid.
A few months after I purchased this Short Snorter I decided to research the signatures. I was able to read many of them and upon finding a website that listed servicemen that served in WWII in the Hawaiian Islands or nearby I was able to figure out who was still living and who had died. I was able to find one, Blaine W. Gamble, that was still alive. I found his address online after doing an address search and did my best guess to figure out the correct Blaine W. Gamble based on age.
I decided to send him a letter in the mail with a photocopy of the note asking if he was the man who signed it. A few weeks later I get a large envelope in the mail with a two page handwritten letter saying that he was the man who signed the note and mentioned a few others who signed it that had since passed away that were his buddies in WWII. He sent along a copy of a photo of himself from WWII that was published in a magazine at the time, it was either Life or Time. He mentioned the names of the other people in the photo and how he knew them during the war. He finally closed by thanking me for sending him a copy of the Short Snorter.
In retrospect, I wish I had sent him the actual Short Shorter. I think back when I wrote the letter I wasn’t 100% sure I had the right guy and didn’t want to risk losing the note. After I got the response back I could had sent it to him then but I thought having the note with the letter and photo would make a more interesting item as it gave the note more history. Unfortunately now the Short Snorter is lost. I have no idea where it is but it was kept with the letter and photo, and the note is gone. There is no chance of it showing up after looking and looking for it over the years. All I got is the picture of it.
I just recently found this write up I did ten years ago which includes a full transcript of the letter he wrote me:
This World War II short snorter is a $1 Hawaii note signed by servicemen during World War II. This particular one was signed by Jim Gagnon, Leo M. Johnson, Jamee MeDeimot, Blaine W. Gamble, Harold A. Hudak plus a few others that are hard to read. It is dated November 15th, 1943.
I was able to contact Blaine W. Gamble in 2004 and after speaking with him on the phone, he wrote me a letter about what he did during World War II. He told me over the phone that he knew the other men that signed the $1 Hawaii note. He also sent me a photo (almost 8x10 but a bit smaller) that has him and a few of the other men who signed the short snorter.
The letter reads:
"Dear Juli,
I found that short-snorter to be quite interesting. From the date on it I would say the original owner got the signatures on a flight between Honolulu and Canton island.
We stayed over-night at Canton before continuing on to Funa Futi. That was to be our base for the next several weeks.
Several days later, after the island had been secured, I flew on a four-engine seaplane to pick up a load of patients off Tarawa.
One who boarded the plane at that time was Lt. Gen. H.M. Smith, who commanded the invasion.
I was with the 809 Medical Air Evacuation Sqdn. There were 24 nurses and 24 surgical technicians in our unit. We were divided into four flights with six teams to a flight.
I received my training at St. Mary's Hospital in Louisville. As you can imagine, civilian emergencies can't be likened to combat casualties.
Our flight took turns going “down under.” That was the term we used for going into combat zones. It was for making routine flights in enemy territory that I was awarded the Air Medal. I also received the Asiatic-Pacific medal with five stars.
The c54 cargo planes were equipped to handle 36 litters.
We had a heavy metal chest which held all the medication and medical equipment we might need.
Needless to say, despite the severity of wounds of some of the patients, there were no complainers. They knew that as soon as the plane took off, it would be but a matter of hours before they landed in the States.
Depending upon the point of origin, the trip home was usually divided into three segments with a fresh nurse and technician at each departure.
One of my most memorable experiences was when we picked up a plane load of ex prisoners of war on Leyte. They were all gaunt and there were a number of double amputations, but they were the most cheerful group we ever saw. They were so glad to be alive and to be going home.
As for me, I returned home, got my degree and began teaching.
Incidentally you might notice the difference in my penmanship. A Stroke restricted use of my right side and /i learned to write with my left hand.
I hope these few lines will be of use to you in developing your paper.
This story is about the only thing I really regret selling from my former collection.
I had written to the Supreme Court Justices in 2005 and got back Ruth Bader Ginsburg, John Paul Stevens, Clarence Thomas, David Souter in late 2005 and Samuel Alito in 2006 all on Chambers Cards. Only Alito inscribed. I also remember getting an autopen from John Roberts.
Sometime in 2011 I was in need of money and I hadn’t really collected autographs anymore so I decided to sell off a vast majority of my collection (I kept a few select pieces). Most of the high end autographs that I purchased such as my Walt Disney signed check were sold individually. I then had about 200 low value ttm autographs which included the 5 signed Chambers Cards. I went to an antiques show where I sold the lot of 200 signed items (mostly index cards, cards, small photos, and some 8x10s) for $200. At the time I figured it probably cost me about $1 each to buy postage to obtain the autographs so getting $200 felt like just getting my money back which was pretty much all I cared about at that time. I actually don’t regret getting rid of 99% of the autographs BUT the ONE autograph I truly regret selling/giving away was the Ruth Bader Ginsburg signed Chambers Card I got ttm. In 2011 I did not realize she had stopped signing ttm and her autograph was already worth several hundred dollars at that time. Today it is now worth over $1000 in that format!
Now that Ruth Bader Ginsburg is one of my heroes I really wish I kept that autograph especially because I got it from her directly. The sad thing is I am now looking to buy an RBG signed Chambers Card and the cheapest one I can find is $2000 on eBay (which I know is overpriced). I can’t even find anything signed by her for much under $2000 except some obvious fakes. Very rarely do eBay sellers list RBG with low starting bids, instead they just list them as overpriced Buy It Nows. 😭
UPDATE: I contacted the person on eBay who has been selling several individual autographs from that lot over the last ten years. It turns out it was his brother that I sold the collection to at the antiques show who then gave it to the seller on eBay that has been selling individual items from my collection over the years on eBay along with several other autographs he got in other collections he purchased. When I asked him about the Supreme Court cards he said he never got them when he received the collection. Strange thing is I know they were in there so I am wondering if maybe they got misplaced or lost between the time I sold them to the brother and the eBay seller received them. Unfortunately the brother passed away so the seller can not ask him if perhaps he took a few autographs from the lot before giving them to the seller. The only good thing is if they ever turn up, the Alito is personalized to me so I will be able to immediately recognize it. I hope I see it someday (along with the other 4 signed cards) on eBay or somewhere where I can buy it back. If anyone here successfully finds it (hopefully with the other cards) I will offer a reward to them for finding it.
I am a big Raiders fan, especially the 70's era players. Throughout the years (I am 34) have had the great pleasure of meeting pretty much the entire '76 championship team excluding Matuszak since he had already passed when I was 1. Every single player I have had the pleasure of meeting were always the nicest guys you would ever want to meet. My dad used to be sort of a raiders groupie, would hang out at the local watering holes the players would frequent after games and practices so they sort of knew who he was which I am sure helped out a bit (kind of recognizable guy since he was a tall redhead and sort of looks like he could be Ted Hendricks brother). I can't say there was ever a time when I felt rushed off after an autograph, and many of the times getting to meet these legends it would be sort of chance encounters around the SF bay area, so would actually get the chance to chat with a lot of them.
Skip Thomas used to have a booth he would setup in a small town of Isleton when they used to have an annual crawdad festival there. Dalby was at a charity golf event and was letting all the kids wear his superbowl ring for photos (the thing was damn near a bracelet on my ten year old hand). Got to chat with Tatum for about 45 minutes at a car show one time. Art Thoms I see once a yea,r as he has a memorabilia store and does a charity silent auction every year for a restaurant near Sacramento. Just great guys that you could tell loved to just sit and talk with fans, even ones who weren't born when they played. But my favorite 2 were Freddy B and Stabler.
Biletnikoff was at my first card show at the local mall. Now as I said my dad was kind of a groupie, and there was a huge line waiting for autographs, think he was charging 20 bucks or something at the time. Anyways my dad walks me up towards the table he is signing at and calls out to Freddy and he looks up and recognizes him and calls us to the table, signs a photo for me no charge and talked to us for a good 5 minutes. People in line were looking at us like who the hell is this haha, but in those 5 minutes it was like old friends catching up.
Stabler was at the same charity golf event as Dalby, this was at Konocti in northern California and my dad was old friends with the bar owner there. So it's still early in the morning before the golfing has started and my dad, my uncle and I are headed to the closed bar so they could get a drink since they had keys to the back door. So we are in the bar and they are drinking some breakfast beers when there is a knocking at the front glass door. My dad is about ready to scare the poor sucker trying to get in on the breakfast round off when he looks and sees none other than the snake himself motioning to let him in. So of course my dad obliges and I got to sit with the three of them talking about raiders and golf and whatever else they could think up for about 45 minutes before Stabler jumps up realizing he is going to be late for his tee off. Just the way those old school guys are so down to earth always has stuck with me, and like others have had said of similar experiences, it sort of spoils you when you realize it's not all fun and laughs when meeting your heroes.
I know it's a long post here already but just to contrast with probably the worst of the worst, and no it's not just because he was a niner, was Joe Montana. I have had the displeasure of running into him twice, both times I was still young (want to say around 8 the first time and 11 the second) and he was just obnoxiously rude and egotistical both times in my opinion. He wouldn't sign an autograph or even have the courtesy to politely decline. Was just rude both times and I should mention both times were not at formal meet n greets, just random encounters the first was at a restaurant and second was at a hotel, so I can sort of understand not wanting to be bugged for an autograph or being bothered in general, but I was just a little kid and both times he was just absolutely rude, the second time even using some foul language towards an 11 year old. I have so many more stories but won't bore you all anymore, if anyone even read this far haha.
I got taken in by an impulse autograph purchase today so that made me think to ask, have any of you ever purchased an autograph on impulse and soon regretted it?
The situation that occurred with me today probably happened because I was first shown a movie collectible that was $450 and then I was shown a signed photo that was “only” $20. Seemed like a no brainer deal so I bought it immediately. It was only several minutes later that I realized I did not get a “deal” as the autograph be worth $5 or maybe $10 upon resell AND that the autograph didn’t fit my collection theme at all. I was very upset with myself. Luckily it was only $20 but definitely could had been worse.
I wonder if that was a specific tactic that was used by the seller (show a more expensive item followed by a cheaper one).
I try not to have buyer's remorse whenever possible. Occassionally I end up with something that I overpaid for or wasn't what I expected, etc. Luckily I usually don't spend big money on things so the downside is limited.
I do have a couple items from my early collecting days that were not necessarily extremely overpriced at the time, but they were not wise investments and I even suspected that at the time, which is a little frustrating.
One is a nice official White House photo of Gerald and Betty Ford signed by both that I think I paid $125 for. Some years later President Ford himself sold similar photos for $3 each.
In your case I know you are trying to keep a tight focus on your collection so that's probably the most aggravating part for you. The money itself is not extreme, and for a postage stamp you could easily get something TTM that is worth the $20, or more. (Maybe one last note from Stephen Breyer, for example? ).
Sometimes I use an investment technique called "dollar cost averaging" to change the way I view the prices paid for certain things. For example, I have several checks signed by billionaire J. Paul Getty. I didn't exactly overpay for any of them, but I did pay what I considered very healthy prices (for me, anyway) at the time for a couple special ones that I really wanted. But I also got a few really cheap, so if I average the prices out over the whole group of checks I have, the average price is very reasonable.
It's sort of a psychological trick but it makes me feel better. And if I ever sell any off, the cheaper ones will help the overall return on investment.
@omgjedi said:
I am a big Raiders fan, especially the 70's era players. Throughout the years (I am 34) have had the great pleasure of meeting pretty much the entire '76 championship team excluding Matuszak since he had already passed when I was 1. Every single player I have had the pleasure of meeting were always the nicest guys you would ever want to meet. My dad used to be sort of a raiders groupie, would hang out at the local watering holes the players would frequent after games and practices so they sort of knew who he was which I am sure helped out a bit (kind of recognizable guy since he was a tall redhead and sort of looks like he could be Ted Hendricks brother). I can't say there was ever a time when I felt rushed off after an autograph, and many of the times getting to meet these legends it would be sort of chance encounters around the SF bay area, so would actually get the chance to chat with a lot of them.
Skip Thomas used to have a booth he would setup in a small town of Isleton when they used to have an annual crawdad festival there. Dalby was at a charity golf event and was letting all the kids wear his superbowl ring for photos (the thing was damn near a bracelet on my ten year old hand). Got to chat with Tatum for about 45 minutes at a car show one time. Art Thoms I see once a yea,r as he has a memorabilia store and does a charity silent auction every year for a restaurant near Sacramento. Just great guys that you could tell loved to just sit and talk with fans, even ones who weren't born when they played. But my favorite 2 were Freddy B and Stabler.
Biletnikoff was at my first card show at the local mall. Now as I said my dad was kind of a groupie, and there was a huge line waiting for autographs, think he was charging 20 bucks or something at the time. Anyways my dad walks me up towards the table he is signing at and calls out to Freddy and he looks up and recognizes him and calls us to the table, signs a photo for me no charge and talked to us for a good 5 minutes. People in line were looking at us like who the hell is this haha, but in those 5 minutes it was like old friends catching up.
Stabler was at the same charity golf event as Dalby, this was at Konocti in northern California and my dad was old friends with the bar owner there. So it's still early in the morning before the golfing has started and my dad, my uncle and I are headed to the closed bar so they could get a drink since they had keys to the back door. So we are in the bar and they are drinking some breakfast beers when there is a knocking at the front glass door. My dad is about ready to scare the poor sucker trying to get in on the breakfast round off when he looks and sees none other than the snake himself motioning to let him in. So of course my dad obliges and I got to sit with the three of them talking about raiders and golf and whatever else they could think up for about 45 minutes before Stabler jumps up realizing he is going to be late for his tee off. Just the way those old school guys are so down to earth always has stuck with me, and like others have had said of similar experiences, it sort of spoils you when you realize it's not all fun and laughs when meeting your heroes.
I know it's a long post here already but just to contrast with probably the worst of the worst, and no it's not just because he was a niner, was Joe Montana. I have had the displeasure of running into him twice, both times I was still young (want to say around 8 the first time and 11 the second) and he was just obnoxiously rude and egotistical both times in my opinion. He wouldn't sign an autograph or even have the courtesy to politely decline. Was just rude both times and I should mention both times were not at formal meet n greets, just random encounters the first was at a restaurant and second was at a hotel, so I can sort of understand not wanting to be bugged for an autograph or being bothered in general, but I was just a little kid and both times he was just absolutely rude, the second time even using some foul language towards an 11 year old. I have so many more stories but won't bore you all anymore, if anyone even read this far haha.
Thanks for the paragraph breaks.
Those are great stories! Great guys for sure. And I love the "breakfast beers".
Too bad about Joe Montana. People are entitled to have a bad day once in a while but he gave you a bad memory that will last a lifetime. At least you have all those other great ones.
@JBK said:
I wonder if that was a specific tactic that was used by the seller (show a more expensive item followed by a cheaper one).
That’s what I was thinking afterwards. I was very fortunate that I was able to get my money back. The seller did not accept returns (he never stated this before my purchase or had any signs at his booth stating this, but I can understand it could be implied) but after I told him I understood his reasoning for a no return policy and the principle that if everyone returned stuff they bought from him that he wouldn’t make any money, he actually gave me my money back. I had to promise that I would never be his customer again which I was totally fine with since all his stuff was very overpriced. I was actually very surprised and happy I ended up being able to get my money back and getting rid of the unwanted autograph that didn’t fit my collection theme.
I try not to have buyer's remorse whenever possible. Occassionally I end up with something that I overpaid for or wasn't what I expected, etc. Luckily I usually don't spend big money on things so the downside is limited.
I do have a couple items from my early collecting days that were not necessarily extremely overpriced at the time, but they were not wise investments and I even suspected that at the time, which is a little frustrating.
One is a nice official White House photo of Gerald and Betty Ford signed by both that I think I paid $125 for. Some years later President Ford himself sold similar photos for $3 each.
In your case I know you are trying to keep a tight focus on your collection so that's probably the most aggravating part for you. The money itself is not extreme, and for a postage stamp you could easily get something TTM that is worth the $20, or more. (Maybe one last note from Stephen Breyer, for example? ).
I think I was more concerned about having something in my collection that didn’t fit. I guess I could have simply given it away and then made up for it with a ttm success that fit my collection theme that was easily worth the $20 I lost.
Sometimes I use an investment technique called "dollar cost averaging" to change the way I view the prices paid for certain things. For example, I have several checks signed by billionaire J. Paul Getty. I didn't exactly overpay for any of them, but I did pay what I considered very healthy prices (for me, anyway) at the time for a couple special ones that i really wanted. But I also got a few really cheap, so if I average the prices out over the whole group of checks I have, the average price is very reasonable.
It's sort of a psychological trick but it makes me feel better. And if I ever sell any off, the cheaper ones will help the overall return on investment.
I like that thought process. If I make a mistake like that again next time I can consider giving away the item that doesn’t fit in my collection instead of trying to resell it for a big loss. Probably make someone else happy to get it.
In case you were wondering, the autographed item I purchased was a 5x7 photo signed by the twins in the film the Shining. I don’t generally collect film autographs outside a few very favorite actors/actresses and directors. The Shining twins definitely did not qualify as favorite actresses.
In case you were wondering, the autographed item I purchased was a 5x7 photo signed by the twins in the film the Shining. I don’t generally collect film autographs outside a few very favorite actors/actresses and directors. The Shining twins definitely did not qualify as favorite actresses.
That's an unusual one for sure, but no idea on value. I'm sure he can sell it to someone else.
BTW, he should have had an "all sales final" sign posted somewhere. It might have given people just enough of a pause or reminder to make sure they definitely wanted the item.
Was going through some old boxes looking for a letter and found the program from that celebrity golf tournament figured I would share, forgot I even had this.
I just remembered this autograph story from twenty years ago.
In 2002 I was on vacation and our family went to a shopping center which had an autograph store. This was around the time I just started getting into collecting autographs for the first time. This store was the first time I ever saw so many autographs at once. Many were hundreds of dollars and some were thousands. The autographs were all on 8x10 photos and framed. The COAs were taped to the back of the frames. I remember a Lucille Ball signed “Love, Lucy” 8x10 photo was over $1000. I was browsing the autographs and was just amazed at all the big names they had. I remember they did not have any Beatles autographs but did have Julian Lennon for $200. The cheapest autographs they had were $20 (all obscure names). My mother recognized only one “celebrity” in the $20 autograph bin. It was a child actor in a 1950s TV show (can’t remember which show but it was not very famous). I almost bought that autograph until I found an Eric Clapton signed 8x10 photo for $200. I asked Dad if I could borrow the money from him and pay him back as soon as we got home. At the time I was shocked he refused. His reasoning was that he never heard me talk about Eric Clapton and didn’t think I was a big fan (this was true) and thought I was making an impulse purchase (also true). I was upset and told him I wanted a really good autograph in my collection and Eric Clapton was very famous so I thought it would be good. Mom suggested I get the $20 no name 1950s TV star but I said I never even heard of that show, let alone the actor. The cheapest autograph of anyone really famous they had was Eric Clapton. It turned out I didn’t buy anything. At the time I was very upset Dad wouldn’t loan me the money to buy Clapton. A few days later I started to realize I didn’t really want it and it would had been an impulse buy. Looking back on this, I was very happy I didn’t buy it.
I saw this Einstein signature and found the date on this particular piece very interesting. It was signed on the very day Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg was born: 3-15-33 (March 15th, 1933). Not only that but she was also born in the same state (New York) where this autograph was signed. Kind of neat I thought even though Einstein has little to do with RBG (other than that they are both Jewish).
Sometime in the early spring of 2006 I decided to write Andrew Card. I wanted his autograph anyway so this plan worked out well. I had a picture of Andy Card whispering to President Bush that the World Trade Center had been hit by a plane on 9/11. I requested that I would love for him to sign that picture for me. I then wrote that I really wanted George W. Bush’s actual hand signed autograph, and not the typical preprint or autopen. I told him that I would be thrilled if he would do that for me but that I was understanding if he couldn’t. I sent this letter DAYS before he announced he was resigning, so when I heard he was resigning I got very nervous I would never hear back until I realized it wasn’t to take effect for a few more weeks. I think it was a day after his resignation I received his response in the mail. Ironically I also got like three other letters/packages that same mail day. I remember getting two items I ordered online and my ttm success from Anne Frank helper Miep Gies…one of the very few autographs from my original collection I still have. After opening and putting all these autographs away, I went down to the mailbox and found the White House 8x10 envelope bent inside the mailbox. The envelope surprisingly flattened out. Inside was a typed hand signed letter from Andy Card saying that he was glad to sign my photo which was enclosed and that he was able to get George W. Bush to hand sign a photo for me. The Andy Card photo was entirely hand signed including inscription but the George W. Bush photo had a typed inscription but a signature that did not look like it was autopen. I knew I would need to further study this. After hours of research I could not find a matching autopen pattern or any tell tale signs of autopen in the signature. I found it odd, and still find it odd that the inscription was typed instead of handwritten which is what I expect for authentic Bush autographs. I had seen other Presidential autographs with the typed or secretarially written inscriptions and the autograph had always been some kind of autopen (Reagan examples immediately came to mind).
After I got this unbelievable success I decided to write the Bush White House a thank you letter. I didn’t think anything else of it other than that I wanted the White House to know I appreciated this response from Andy Card. I would had written Card himself but now that he was out of office I didn’t have an address to use at the time. A few weeks later I get a large White House envelope in the mail. I am stumped as I was not expecting anything from the White House. Inside was a piece of cardboard, a card with the Presidential seal that had typed on it “with compliments” and what appeared to be a hand signed George W. Bush autograph very similar to the one Andy Card sent me, but the signature was different. Same typed inscription. Very odd I thought but also very pleased as I thought it was another authentic autograph of Bush. I studied these and convinced myself they were likely authentic after showing them to many experts and comparing with all known autopens and preprints.
A couple years before my big sell off phase, I discovered a Bush autograph that was given to a very important person, someone I knew who actually worked for Bush, was autopen. It was on the very special photo taken of her standing next to Bush in the Oval Office receiving an award. It was sent to her right after she was finished with her job at the White House. I could not believe it when I spotted a new autopen pattern and remembered it looked kind of like the signature on that photo. Once I compared them I found it was an exact match! The photo had the typed inscription just like mine so now I grew extremely suspicious that these typed inscription photos were all autopen.
When it came time for me to unload my entire autograph collection I knew I could not sell the Bush autographs as authentic now that I believed them to be autopen. However, when I sold them I mentioned that I did not find the matching autopen pattern but that I believed them to be autopen. I started the bidding low and since the Andy Card letter and photo had authentic signatures from him on them, I started the bidding at $99. I think in the end I got $199 for the lot…the two Bush autographs and Andy Card autographs. When I received positive feedback for them the buyer said he was happy he could “verify the autographs were authentic” which led me to believe he had other Bush autographs that did NOT match these ones. However looking back on it, maybe he meant he discovered these Bush autographs were authentic, not ones he had prior. After that sale, I chose not to save pictures of these autographs mostly because I believed they were autopen and I only saved pictures of real autographs I thought were important in my former collection.
I'll have to dig out the George HW Bush letter I got while he was president. I never did store it wirh my presidential autographs because I was uncertain on authenticity.
I had sent Andy Card a Chinese translation of one of GHWB's books to pass along to him, and i got a letter back. The signature did not match any autopens I was familiar with but I figured it was too good to be true.
On a separate note, I recall hearing that the White House keeps a record of letters they send out with the president's signature and how it was signed (by hand or autopen). I assume duch returns would be kept by the National Archives and transferred to the presidential library if there is one. Just for kicks I might inquire with them once I locate it.
That is very interesting if the White House does actually keep logs of what autographs they send out. I am extremely curious what ones are listed under letters/photos sent to me. I received three total (one via Andy Card, one sent to me after I sent a note of thanks to Bush for the Andy Card response and one sent to me via a Police Chief in Waco Texas that I was fairly certain was autopen but never found a match so I couldn’t conclusively rule it out) that I suspected could be authentic and all the rest definite autopen and preprints.
Definitely post your letter. I have seen authentic hand signed ones and a bunch of autopen ones. I have a better eye for President Bush autopens now that I have studied most of the patterns (as long as they are President era ones, I don’t know his post President autopens very well).
Comments
Here is an old story offered as a tribute to Sen. Bob Dole who passed away yesterday. It took 98 years, physical infirmity, and stage 4 lung cancer to bring him down.
Many years ago Senator Bob Dole and his wife wrote a book. I figured the big challenge would be to get his authentic signature rather than an autopen. So, I sent it to him first and I thankfully got it back inscribed and signed by him.
I then sent it to his wife Elizabeth Dole, who was head of the Anerican Red Cross at the time. It came back with her autopen signature.
I wrote to her to let her know how upset I was about it, and she apologized for her overzealous staff and she included another copy of the book authentically inscribed and signed by her and signed by her husband.
.
I just recently found this write up I did ten years ago which includes a full transcript of the letter he wrote me:
This World War II short snorter is a $1 Hawaii note signed by servicemen during World War II. This particular one was signed by Jim Gagnon, Leo M. Johnson, Jamee MeDeimot, Blaine W. Gamble, Harold A. Hudak plus a few others that are hard to read. It is dated November 15th, 1943.
I was able to contact Blaine W. Gamble in 2004 and after speaking with him on the phone, he wrote me a letter about what he did during World War II. He told me over the phone that he knew the other men that signed the $1 Hawaii note. He also sent me a photo (almost 8x10 but a bit smaller) that has him and a few of the other men who signed the short snorter.
The letter reads:
"Dear Juli,
I found that short-snorter to be quite interesting. From the date on it I would say the original owner got the signatures on a flight between Honolulu and Canton island.
We stayed over-night at Canton before continuing on to Funa Futi. That was to be our base for the next several weeks.
Several days later, after the island had been secured, I flew on a four-engine seaplane to pick up a load of patients off Tarawa.
One who boarded the plane at that time was Lt. Gen. H.M. Smith, who commanded the invasion.
I was with the 809 Medical Air Evacuation Sqdn. There were 24 nurses and 24 surgical technicians in our unit. We were divided into four flights with six teams to a flight.
I received my training at St. Mary's Hospital in Louisville. As you can imagine, civilian emergencies can't be likened to combat casualties.
Our flight took turns going “down under.” That was the term we used for going into combat zones. It was for making routine flights in enemy territory that I was awarded the Air Medal. I also received the Asiatic-Pacific medal with five stars.
The c54 cargo planes were equipped to handle 36 litters.
We had a heavy metal chest which held all the medication and medical equipment we might need.
Needless to say, despite the severity of wounds of some of the patients, there were no complainers. They knew that as soon as the plane took off, it would be but a matter of hours before they landed in the States.
Depending upon the point of origin, the trip home was usually divided into three segments with a fresh nurse and technician at each departure.
One of my most memorable experiences was when we picked up a plane load of ex prisoners of war on Leyte. They were all gaunt and there were a number of double amputations, but they were the most cheerful group we ever saw. They were so glad to be alive and to be going home.
As for me, I returned home, got my degree and began teaching.
Incidentally you might notice the difference in my penmanship. A Stroke restricted use of my right side and /i learned to write with my left hand.
I hope these few lines will be of use to you in developing your paper.
Sincerely, Blaine Gamble"
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This story is about the only thing I really regret selling from my former collection.
I had written to the Supreme Court Justices in 2005 and got back Ruth Bader Ginsburg, John Paul Stevens, Clarence Thomas, David Souter in late 2005 and Samuel Alito in 2006 all on Chambers Cards. Only Alito inscribed. I also remember getting an autopen from John Roberts.
Sometime in 2011 I was in need of money and I hadn’t really collected autographs anymore so I decided to sell off a vast majority of my collection (I kept a few select pieces). Most of the high end autographs that I purchased such as my Walt Disney signed check were sold individually. I then had about 200 low value ttm autographs which included the 5 signed Chambers Cards. I went to an antiques show where I sold the lot of 200 signed items (mostly index cards, cards, small photos, and some 8x10s) for $200. At the time I figured it probably cost me about $1 each to buy postage to obtain the autographs so getting $200 felt like just getting my money back which was pretty much all I cared about at that time. I actually don’t regret getting rid of 99% of the autographs BUT the ONE autograph I truly regret selling/giving away was the Ruth Bader Ginsburg signed Chambers Card I got ttm. In 2011 I did not realize she had stopped signing ttm and her autograph was already worth several hundred dollars at that time. Today it is now worth over $1000 in that format!
Now that Ruth Bader Ginsburg is one of my heroes I really wish I kept that autograph especially because I got it from her directly. The sad thing is I am now looking to buy an RBG signed Chambers Card and the cheapest one I can find is $2000 on eBay (which I know is overpriced). I can’t even find anything signed by her for much under $2000 except some obvious fakes. Very rarely do eBay sellers list RBG with low starting bids, instead they just list them as overpriced Buy It Nows. 😭
UPDATE: I contacted the person on eBay who has been selling several individual autographs from that lot over the last ten years. It turns out it was his brother that I sold the collection to at the antiques show who then gave it to the seller on eBay that has been selling individual items from my collection over the years on eBay along with several other autographs he got in other collections he purchased. When I asked him about the Supreme Court cards he said he never got them when he received the collection. Strange thing is I know they were in there so I am wondering if maybe they got misplaced or lost between the time I sold them to the brother and the eBay seller received them. Unfortunately the brother passed away so the seller can not ask him if perhaps he took a few autographs from the lot before giving them to the seller. The only good thing is if they ever turn up, the Alito is personalized to me so I will be able to immediately recognize it. I hope I see it someday (along with the other 4 signed cards) on eBay or somewhere where I can buy it back. If anyone here successfully finds it (hopefully with the other cards) I will offer a reward to them for finding it.
I am a big Raiders fan, especially the 70's era players. Throughout the years (I am 34) have had the great pleasure of meeting pretty much the entire '76 championship team excluding Matuszak since he had already passed when I was 1. Every single player I have had the pleasure of meeting were always the nicest guys you would ever want to meet. My dad used to be sort of a raiders groupie, would hang out at the local watering holes the players would frequent after games and practices so they sort of knew who he was which I am sure helped out a bit (kind of recognizable guy since he was a tall redhead and sort of looks like he could be Ted Hendricks brother). I can't say there was ever a time when I felt rushed off after an autograph, and many of the times getting to meet these legends it would be sort of chance encounters around the SF bay area, so would actually get the chance to chat with a lot of them.
Skip Thomas used to have a booth he would setup in a small town of Isleton when they used to have an annual crawdad festival there. Dalby was at a charity golf event and was letting all the kids wear his superbowl ring for photos (the thing was damn near a bracelet on my ten year old hand). Got to chat with Tatum for about 45 minutes at a car show one time. Art Thoms I see once a yea,r as he has a memorabilia store and does a charity silent auction every year for a restaurant near Sacramento. Just great guys that you could tell loved to just sit and talk with fans, even ones who weren't born when they played. But my favorite 2 were Freddy B and Stabler.
Biletnikoff was at my first card show at the local mall. Now as I said my dad was kind of a groupie, and there was a huge line waiting for autographs, think he was charging 20 bucks or something at the time. Anyways my dad walks me up towards the table he is signing at and calls out to Freddy and he looks up and recognizes him and calls us to the table, signs a photo for me no charge and talked to us for a good 5 minutes. People in line were looking at us like who the hell is this haha, but in those 5 minutes it was like old friends catching up.
Stabler was at the same charity golf event as Dalby, this was at Konocti in northern California and my dad was old friends with the bar owner there. So it's still early in the morning before the golfing has started and my dad, my uncle and I are headed to the closed bar so they could get a drink since they had keys to the back door. So we are in the bar and they are drinking some breakfast beers when there is a knocking at the front glass door. My dad is about ready to scare the poor sucker trying to get in on the breakfast round off when he looks and sees none other than the snake himself motioning to let him in. So of course my dad obliges and I got to sit with the three of them talking about raiders and golf and whatever else they could think up for about 45 minutes before Stabler jumps up realizing he is going to be late for his tee off. Just the way those old school guys are so down to earth always has stuck with me, and like others have had said of similar experiences, it sort of spoils you when you realize it's not all fun and laughs when meeting your heroes.
I know it's a long post here already but just to contrast with probably the worst of the worst, and no it's not just because he was a niner, was Joe Montana. I have had the displeasure of running into him twice, both times I was still young (want to say around 8 the first time and 11 the second) and he was just obnoxiously rude and egotistical both times in my opinion. He wouldn't sign an autograph or even have the courtesy to politely decline. Was just rude both times and I should mention both times were not at formal meet n greets, just random encounters the first was at a restaurant and second was at a hotel, so I can sort of understand not wanting to be bugged for an autograph or being bothered in general, but I was just a little kid and both times he was just absolutely rude, the second time even using some foul language towards an 11 year old. I have so many more stories but won't bore you all anymore, if anyone even read this far haha.
I might read it later but sure would be a ton easier with paragraph breaks.
I got taken in by an impulse autograph purchase today so that made me think to ask, have any of you ever purchased an autograph on impulse and soon regretted it?
The situation that occurred with me today probably happened because I was first shown a movie collectible that was $450 and then I was shown a signed photo that was “only” $20. Seemed like a no brainer deal so I bought it immediately. It was only several minutes later that I realized I did not get a “deal” as the autograph be worth $5 or maybe $10 upon resell AND that the autograph didn’t fit my collection theme at all. I was very upset with myself. Luckily it was only $20 but definitely could had been worse.
Got to be more careful. I am still learning.
I wonder if that was a specific tactic that was used by the seller (show a more expensive item followed by a cheaper one).
I try not to have buyer's remorse whenever possible. Occassionally I end up with something that I overpaid for or wasn't what I expected, etc. Luckily I usually don't spend big money on things so the downside is limited.
I do have a couple items from my early collecting days that were not necessarily extremely overpriced at the time, but they were not wise investments and I even suspected that at the time, which is a little frustrating.
One is a nice official White House photo of Gerald and Betty Ford signed by both that I think I paid $125 for. Some years later President Ford himself sold similar photos for $3 each.
In your case I know you are trying to keep a tight focus on your collection so that's probably the most aggravating part for you. The money itself is not extreme, and for a postage stamp you could easily get something TTM that is worth the $20, or more. (Maybe one last note from Stephen Breyer, for example?
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Sometimes I use an investment technique called "dollar cost averaging" to change the way I view the prices paid for certain things. For example, I have several checks signed by billionaire J. Paul Getty. I didn't exactly overpay for any of them, but I did pay what I considered very healthy prices (for me, anyway) at the time for a couple special ones that I really wanted. But I also got a few really cheap, so if I average the prices out over the whole group of checks I have, the average price is very reasonable.
It's sort of a psychological trick but it makes me feel better. And if I ever sell any off, the cheaper ones will help the overall return on investment.
Thanks for the paragraph breaks.
Those are great stories! Great guys for sure. And I love the "breakfast beers".
Too bad about Joe Montana. People are entitled to have a bad day once in a while but he gave you a bad memory that will last a lifetime. At least you have all those other great ones.
That’s what I was thinking afterwards. I was very fortunate that I was able to get my money back. The seller did not accept returns (he never stated this before my purchase or had any signs at his booth stating this, but I can understand it could be implied) but after I told him I understood his reasoning for a no return policy and the principle that if everyone returned stuff they bought from him that he wouldn’t make any money, he actually gave me my money back. I had to promise that I would never be his customer again which I was totally fine with since all his stuff was very overpriced. I was actually very surprised and happy I ended up being able to get my money back and getting rid of the unwanted autograph that didn’t fit my collection theme.
I think I was more concerned about having something in my collection that didn’t fit. I guess I could have simply given it away and then made up for it with a ttm success that fit my collection theme that was easily worth the $20 I lost.
I like that thought process. If I make a mistake like that again next time I can consider giving away the item that doesn’t fit in my collection instead of trying to resell it for a big loss. Probably make someone else happy to get it.
In case you were wondering, the autographed item I purchased was a 5x7 photo signed by the twins in the film the Shining. I don’t generally collect film autographs outside a few very favorite actors/actresses and directors. The Shining twins definitely did not qualify as favorite actresses.
That's an unusual one for sure, but no idea on value. I'm sure he can sell it to someone else.
BTW, he should have had an "all sales final" sign posted somewhere. It might have given people just enough of a pause or reminder to make sure they definitely wanted the item.
Was going through some old boxes looking for a letter and found the program from that celebrity golf tournament figured I would share, forgot I even had this.
I just remembered this autograph story from twenty years ago.
In 2002 I was on vacation and our family went to a shopping center which had an autograph store. This was around the time I just started getting into collecting autographs for the first time. This store was the first time I ever saw so many autographs at once. Many were hundreds of dollars and some were thousands. The autographs were all on 8x10 photos and framed. The COAs were taped to the back of the frames. I remember a Lucille Ball signed “Love, Lucy” 8x10 photo was over $1000. I was browsing the autographs and was just amazed at all the big names they had. I remember they did not have any Beatles autographs but did have Julian Lennon for $200. The cheapest autographs they had were $20 (all obscure names). My mother recognized only one “celebrity” in the $20 autograph bin. It was a child actor in a 1950s TV show (can’t remember which show but it was not very famous). I almost bought that autograph until I found an Eric Clapton signed 8x10 photo for $200. I asked Dad if I could borrow the money from him and pay him back as soon as we got home. At the time I was shocked he refused. His reasoning was that he never heard me talk about Eric Clapton and didn’t think I was a big fan (this was true) and thought I was making an impulse purchase (also true). I was upset and told him I wanted a really good autograph in my collection and Eric Clapton was very famous so I thought it would be good. Mom suggested I get the $20 no name 1950s TV star but I said I never even heard of that show, let alone the actor. The cheapest autograph of anyone really famous they had was Eric Clapton. It turned out I didn’t buy anything. At the time I was very upset Dad wouldn’t loan me the money to buy Clapton. A few days later I started to realize I didn’t really want it and it would had been an impulse buy. Looking back on this, I was very happy I didn’t buy it.
^ Not just that, who's to say the autograph was even real.
Exactly. I have a feeling they were selling lots of fakes. That store went out of business a few years later.
That's a great story! Your father was doing his job as a parent and saved you from yourself in an impulsive moment!
The unusual thing was he has always let me borrow money and pay him back so this time I lucked out.
I saw this Einstein signature and found the date on this particular piece very interesting. It was signed on the very day Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg was born: 3-15-33 (March 15th, 1933). Not only that but she was also born in the same state (New York) where this autograph was signed. Kind of neat I thought even though Einstein has little to do with RBG (other than that they are both Jewish).
The collector’s notation reads: "Passing through Harmon, NY, No. 68 - 11:59 am, 3/15/33." for those that can’t read it.
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This is the original story I wrote about my George W. Bush success through Andy Card a while back.
I'll have to dig out the George HW Bush letter I got while he was president. I never did store it wirh my presidential autographs because I was uncertain on authenticity.
I had sent Andy Card a Chinese translation of one of GHWB's books to pass along to him, and i got a letter back. The signature did not match any autopens I was familiar with but I figured it was too good to be true.
On a separate note, I recall hearing that the White House keeps a record of letters they send out with the president's signature and how it was signed (by hand or autopen). I assume duch returns would be kept by the National Archives and transferred to the presidential library if there is one. Just for kicks I might inquire with them once I locate it.
That is very interesting if the White House does actually keep logs of what autographs they send out. I am extremely curious what ones are listed under letters/photos sent to me. I received three total (one via Andy Card, one sent to me after I sent a note of thanks to Bush for the Andy Card response and one sent to me via a Police Chief in Waco Texas that I was fairly certain was autopen but never found a match so I couldn’t conclusively rule it out) that I suspected could be authentic and all the rest definite autopen and preprints.
Definitely post your letter. I have seen authentic hand signed ones and a bunch of autopen ones. I have a better eye for President Bush autopens now that I have studied most of the patterns (as long as they are President era ones, I don’t know his post President autopens very well).
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