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Should Hines Ward make the Hall of Fame?
doubledragon
Posts: 23,048 ✭✭✭✭✭
in Sports Talk
Do you think he deserves to be in, his stats are:
- 217 games played in
- 12,083 yds receiving
- 85 TDs
- 1,000 receptions
- 12.1 yds per catch
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I bring this up because I was reading an article about it:
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Is Steelers former wide receiver Hines Ward a Hall of Fame snub?
When fans attend the NFL Hall of Fame ceremonies this fall, they will welcome Alan Faneca, and Troy Polamalu, postponed from 2020. However, one member of the Steelers will still not a member of the Hall of Fame. That distinction belongs to Hines Ward.
In Hines Ward’s case, there is no case to be made. The Hall of Fame voters have deliberately snubbed Hines Ward. There have been 11 wide receivers who began their career after 1980 and landed in the Hall of Fame. Of those, only Jerry Rice truly surpassed any of Ward’s stats. Rice is the greatest wide receiver of all time, bar none. So taking Jerry Rice out of the discussion leaves ten other wide receivers elected to the Hall of Fame over Hines Ward. Who are the other ten receivers to land in the Hall of Fame in front of Hines Ward? Tim Brown, Issac Bruce, Cris Carter, Marvin Harrison, Michael Irvin, Calvin Johnson, Art Monk, Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, and Andre Reed.
So of those 10, when you look at Hines Ward stats combined with the other ten, it’s painfully apparent that voters have deliberately snubbed Hines Ward.
Games played:
Let’s start with games played. Hines ward has 217 games played. Of the other ten, only Andree Reed, Art Monk, Issac Bruce, and Tim Brown played more games than Hines Ward. Terrell Owens and Randy Moss played the same amount of games, and the remaining played less than Ward.
I'm not saying he belongs in the Hall of Fame, this is simply a thread to enjoy for entertainment purposes, a sandwich thread, something to mull over while you enjoy a samich!
Or perhaps a cookie.
He is well deserving in my opinion
Do you have the rest of the article?
No, for some reason the article cut off at that point and the rest of the page was videos about various sports stuff. Please forgive me, I have failed you.
Tim Brown had 2900 more yards and 15 more touchdowns.
Isaac Bruce had 3000 more yards and 6 more touchdowns.
Cris Carter had 1800 more yards and 45 more touchdowns.
Marvin Harrison had 2500 more yards and 43 more touchdowns than Ward.
Michael Irvin - career numbers are similar but would anybody seriously take Ward over Irvin who had led the NFL one year and had 1600 yards another while playing in the "hand the ball to Emmitt" system?
Calvin Johnson - basically the same career numbers as Ward while playing half as long. Is anybody really questioning whether Calvin was A LOT better than Ward?
Art Monk - OK, sure, maybe Ward was better than Monk. But I don't think Monk belongs in the Hall so...
Randy Moss - 2700 more yards and 71 more touchdowns. C'mon.
Terrell Owens - 3500 more yards and 68 more touchdowns.
Andre Reed - similar number, granted.
"Only Jerry Rice truly surpassed any of Ward's stats". That claim is just laughably stupid and false as shown above. Of the 10 guys mentioned, 8 of the 10 have better numbers OR have similar numbers in much shorter careers (i.e. they were better). Randy Moss and Terrell Owens don't have better numbers than Hines Ward? Seriously?
No, Hines Ward does not belong in the Hall. He was a fine receiver who had a fine career but...let's be honest here - one of the first things mentioned about him is his blocking. If blocking is one of the first things mentioned about a wide receiver, he's not a Hall of Famer.
Not so fast Longshanks! I have found the rest of the article, I have redeemed myself! Here's the second part:
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Is Steelers former wide receiver Hines Ward a Hall of Fame snub?
Total Yards
Hines Ward has 12,083 total receiving yards. So when it comes to total yards receiving yes, Ward comes out on the low end; there is no argument. Only Tim Brown, Michael Irvin, and Tim Brown have fewer total receiving yards than Hines Ward. However, that makes Ward 7th out of all the other receivers to land in the Hall of Fame. When a receiver’s total yard exceeds at least three other receivers already in the Hall, it’s obvious he’s not getting fair consideration.
Receptions
Hines Ward finished his career with 1000 receptions. With his 1000 receptions, he finished ahead of Michael Irvin at 750, Calvin Johnson, 731, Randy Moss 982, and Andre Reed 951, Art Monk 940. Finishing close to even with Ward was Issac Bruce 1024, and Terrell Owens with 1078.
Only Tim Brown, Cris Carter, and Marvin Harrison finished well ahead of Hines Ward by at least 94 receptions. However, none exceed Ward by more than 102 receptions.
Touchdowns
When it comes to overall touchdowns, one can argue the other receivers are better than Ward. Wards’ total of 85 exceeds only Monk, Johnson, and Michael Irvin. Reed does surpass Ward but only by two touchdowns, Issac Bruce only by Six. The remaining five receivers eclipse Ward by a minimum of 15 touchdowns to a max of 71. Still, Ward, overall, is better than or equal to at least five others currently in the Hall of Fame.
Here is the third part of the article:
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Is Steelers former wide receiver Hines Ward a Hall of Fame snub?
1st Downs
Ok for this category, you can not compare Ward to Reed, Monk, Carter, Brown, or Michael Irvin. More than nearly all of Monk’s career and half of Reed’s and a quarter of Carter Brown and Irvin’s career, the NFL did not record the statistic. So it’s hard to figure how they accurately compare to Ward. However, you can compare him to Bruce, Harrison, Johnson, Moss, and Owens.
Ward had 620 receptions for a first down. His total exceeds only Calvin Johnson, who had 552. Moss does exceed Ward, however, only by 64. Owens and Harrison eclipse Ward’s mark by at least 127. So he is well behind there. When it comes to Art Monk, possibly Ward may have had more only because Monk played in an era where Washington ran the ball heavily behind John Riggens. So it’s likely Ward could have exceeded his mark.
Catch Percentage
Another tough category to accurately compare all of the receivers. As with first downs, they did not record that stat for most of Art Monk’s career and parts of Reed, Irvin, Carter, and Brown. However, against the other five on the list, how does Ward stack up? Ward had a 64.2% catch ratio. That exceeds Moss 56.4%, Owens 57.7%, Johnson 55.7%, Harrison 61.9%, and Issac Bruce 57.9%.
In the years they did record that stat for Irvin, Reed Carter, and Brown, they failed to surpass Ward marks. Though in fairness, there is a likely chance Reed could have exceeded Ward’s mark, as the Bills passed the ball quite a bit in the years, the NFL did not record the stat, and Reed was one of Jim Kelly’s primary targets. It would be fascinating to compare Monk to Ward accurately. In this instance, we can not though Monk was a phenomenal receiver for his era and certainly could have exceeded Wards pass catch ratio.
Here is the fourth part:
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Is Steelers former wide receiver Hines Ward a Hall of Fame snub?
Rushes
Not many receivers rush the ball often. Sometimes if they are versatile and speedy enough, a coach may design some plays to make use of their talent. The Steelers did this for Hines ward. Ward had 57 rushes for 428 yards and one touchdown.
Only one receiver on the list comes close to Wards numbers rushing the ball. Andre Reed rushed the ball 75 times for 500 yards and one touchdown. Art Monk exceeded Wards rushing total as well; however, he only gained 332 yards and no touchdowns. No other receiver in this comparison comes close to Ward’s rushing totals.
Playoffs
Here is where Ward shines over the competition. Except for Reed’s 21 playoff games Ward played in more playoff games than every other receiver on the list with 18. Ward has 1229 playoff yards only exceeded by Andre Reed’s 1229 yards and Michael Irvin’s 1315 yards. A difference of only 134 yards.
Ward also had ten playoff touchdowns. Only Randy Moss had as many; everyone else falls behind Ward. Except for Calvin Johnson’s 73.9% pass catch ratio in the playoffs in two appearances, Ward has a higher ratio than the other five you can accurately compare. If anyone else on the list could have exceeded Ward’s playoff pass catch ratio, Andre Reed is the most likely. Irvin made the postseason seven times, and 1991 is the only appearance the NFL did not calculate a pass catch ratio. So while he has a 60.3% ratio in six postseason appearances, it’s unlikely 1991 would have changed his percentage that much though it’s possible.
Again Ward has more playoff rushing yards at 31 yards, plus he is the only receiver with any rushing touchdowns with 2. As far as Superbowl championships, only Michael Irvin has more than Ward he has three. Art Monk is tied with Ward at two, Issac Bruce and Marvin Harrison have one. The other six do not have a championship ring. Also, he won the MVP in Superbowl XL.
And here is the last part of the article, I promise:
☰
Is Steelers former wide receiver Hines Ward a Hall of Fame snub?
Other Factors
The statistics aside, Hines ward is regarded as one of the best blockers at the wide receiver position ever. Adding credence to this is the fact the NFL rewrote its blocking rules because of the block Hines Ward played on Frank Rivers in the 2008 game with the Bengals. His blocking was so good; the Ravens fans hated him for it. They often criticized him as one of the NFL’s dirtiest players. Though far from true, what the Ravens fans really hated was his ability to block, and he did it quite effectively.
In 2004, Ward played an instrumental role in helping Ben Roethlisberger set the NFL record for winning the most consecutive games from the start of his career. He had 80 receptions for 1004 yards and four touchdowns. A huge reason Ben won his first 16 regular-season games. On top of that, he only missed 11 games in 14 NFL seasons.
Hines Ward, in comparison, is not the best receiver statistically in every receiving category. There is one in which he lags behind all of the other receivers on this list. He only had 12.1 yards per reception. All of the other receivers surpassed that mark. Yet, that stat aside, he had better stats than about half of these Hall of Fame receivers in several categories. Now had Calvin Johnson played as many seasons as Hines Ward, he would have finished well in front of Ward statistically. Aside from Johnson, none of these other nine receivers were that much better than Ward. It just depends on the metrics your comparing.
Why hasn’t Ward gotten voted in? That’s hard to answer. Granted, Ward never led the league in any category at any point in his career. Nor did he set records like Art Monk or Jerry Rice. In the years he played, the Steelers had numerous other talented receivers and a good rushing game, which certainly harmed his statistics.
Will Hines Ward ever get enshrined in Canton? For now, the answer is no. Certainly, his name will come up again. If not now, he may get his recognition through the veteran’s committee. There is no doubt Hines ward deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. If he does not get in, it certainly will be a grave travesty.
i think the lack of touchdowns hurts. would really like to see the halls tighten up, not saturate down. not just the nfl hall either. he was really good. maybe not hall material. and i say this coming from georgia where he went to school. i do reserve the right to be swayed though as time progresses on. similar to how pitchers today are babied. id take a workhorse, grinder from the 70s and 80s with slightly worse stats than a prima donna.
Based on what I know about the veteran's committee, they will put him in.
Why? He has the stats that can keep him out or put him in, whichever way you look at it. But he also has the Hines Ward rule going for him.
I've heard discussions of this sort where those making the decision ask the question "Could we tell the story of the NFL without him.
Edited to add: Interesting question @doubledragon Thank you! 💪💪
I don't know if I would call tied for 16th all time in receiving TDs with Lance Alworth and Paul Warfield, a lack of touchdowns. I don't really have an opinion either way with Ward being in the HOF. He's on that edge where I wouldn't mind if he gets in, and I wouldn't mind if he didn't get in. I don't think his TD total will keep him out though.
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we are basically in the same boat here. as per the tds, its kinda a case of the game evolving and not necessarily being able to honestly compare stats. especially with longer seasons mixed with post season success. kinda like a pitch count determining whether a guy can actually get the no-hitter before getting pulled. heck its kinda like trout getting the nod for having more mvps than ruth. in ruths day you could only get one per lifetime. doesnt really equate. so in my mind, the lack of touchdowns that hines has takes absolutely nothing away from alworth or warfield simply because they are in the same neighborhood there.
No.
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Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
looking at the comparative stats of Hines Ward, maybe there should be a different question posed by the OP. instead of "Should Hines Ward be IN the NFL HOF?" we should probably ask "What receivers shouldn't be in the NFL HOF?"
one thing is clear to me, marginal stats have watered down ALL of the professional shrines. to enter, players should be head-and-shoulders above their peers and not just statistically better.
Very good receiver.
He ranks 113th in yards per game all time while catching a lot of balls (14th all time).
Not what I would call a HOFer, but a good/great one.
UGA in me says yes.
He holds many Steelers records. He will get in for sure.
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
I was reading another article on Hines Ward, very interesting. This article was written in 2008:
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Hines Ward: The Epitome of a Perfect Football Player
BRYN SWARTZ
NOVEMBER 24, 2008
I hate the Pittsburgh Steelers. I've hated them ever since 2004, when they won 15 regular-season games, including a dismantling of my eventual NFC Champion Philadelphia Eagles.
I've never liked Ben Roethlisberger, whom I feel is a product of the system. I've despised Troy Polamalu, even though he might be the top safety in the NFL. But one player I can't help but like has been wide receiver Hines Ward.
Hines Ward is the definition of the ultimate NFL player. He is everything an NFL player should strive to be. He displays toughness, versatility, courage, heart, and unbelievable skill every time he steps onto a football field.
Ward began his football career as a quarterback in high school, where he was a two-time county Offensive Player of the Year. He earned All-American honors from USA Today and accepted a scholarship to play at the University of Georgia.
In college, the 6'0", 205-pound Ward played wide receiver, tailback, quarterback, and punt returner. He ranks second in team history in receiving yards and total yards from scrimmage.
Ward earned all-SEC honors after his 1997 campaign but was only drafted in the third round of the 1998 NFL Draft when it was discovered that he was missing an ACL in his left knee, presumably from a childhood bicycling accident.
Ward's versatility has served him well as a professional football player. During his 10 full seasons with the Pittsburgh Steelers, he has earned three team Most Valuable Player selections, no easy feat for a team regularly among the best in the league.
He has been selected to four Pro Bowls (2001-2004) and has made three All-Pro teams (2002-2004). Three times he has been picked for the All-NFL Team.
Ward topped 1,000 yards receiving four straight years, just missing in 2005 and 2006. In 2002, Ward set the single-season team record for receptions (112) and touchdowns (12). He set a career high with 1329 receiving yards.
He once caught a pass against the Atlanta Falcons, losing his shoe in the process, before outrunning cornerback DeAngelo Hall to the end zone. Judging by 40-yard dash times, DeAngelo Hall is the fastest player in the history of the National Football League.
Hines Ward ranks first in team history in receptions, receiving yards, and touchdowns, ahead of Hall of Fame greats John Stallworth and Lynn Swann.
Ward has excelled in the postseason throughout his career. He has caught eight touchdown passes in just 11 games. In five of those 11 games, he surpassed 100 yards receiving.
In Super Bowl XL, he caught five passes for 123 yards and a touchdown in the Steelers' 21-10 win. He also carried the ball one time for 18 yards and made a key block on teammate Ben Roethlisberger's one-yard touchdown plunge in the fourth quarter. He earned MVP honors, becoming just the fifth wide receiver to do so (the other four are all in the Pro Football Hall of Fame).
Ward is also one of the best, if not the best, blocking receivers in the NFL.
He broke the jaw of Cincinnati Bengals rookie Keith Rivers on a legal block early in the 2008 season. Rivers has since been placed on IR. Much controversy has arose over the hit, to which Ward has replied, “I continue seeing those blocks...It's been going on since the age of football.”
He denies attempting to injure Rivers, stating, “If I was really trying to hurt Rivers, I would have went low at him and tried to take out his knees.”
Pro Bowl linebacker Terrell Suggs of the Baltimore Ravens claims that the Ravens placed a bounty on Ward when the teams met on Monday Night Football a few weeks later. Ward's response to the supposed threat? “I take it as a big honor. It's definitely a big honor to have a bounty.”
Being tough is what Ward is all about. He began his career by playing in 112 consecutive games. He has missed only a handful of games due to injury.
Ward continues to run the football occasionally, as he has accumulated 56 carries for 430 yards and a touchdown, for an astounding 7.7 yards per attempt.
In 2000, he was asked to return kickoffs for two games. Despite having no experience at the position, he averaged over 26 yards per return, including a 57-yard return.
He could fill in at emergency quarterback, if needed, despite only throwing two passes in his professional career (one completion for 17 yards).
In the spring of 2008, a survey of NFL head coaches voted for the smartest offensive player in the league (quarterbacks not included). Hines Ward's name was picked more times than anybody else. “Hines has been one of the smartest players in the league for a long time. He just has a knack for the game,” says one AFC coach.
Ward will do whatever it takes for the Steelers to win a game. He would run through a brick wall if it meant the Steelers would win. In a game where the majority of wide receivers are more concerned with their receiving statistics, Ward will put his body on the line every play, even if he doesn't have the ball.
When the 32-year-old wide receiver finally hangs up his spikes, potentially with a second or third Super Bowl ring and a hold on every receiving record in team history, he deserves to be enshrined in the Pro Football Hall of Fame as one of the greatest all-around players in the history of the game.
No. He really isn't hall worthy. If he does get in... . it's just becaused he smiled a lot for nothing
The Hall of Fame, Canton, Ohio.
1917 Lincoln Cent...Flipped me out !
Very interesting, I see Stonehenge!
whoa this is trippy
If we start with Hines the Pro Football Hall Of Fame can mirror the Baseball HOF and become the Hall of pretty good. Let’s leave it to the greatest, not the maybe pretty good.
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/career-receiving.htm
Terry Bradshaw was AMAZING!!
Ignore list -Basebal21
“i see dead people”. being a lincoln penny and all.
thank you, thank you.