Is PCGS Currency legitimate & recognized?

MKUltra24

I wanted to ask this question here as it’s the PCGS forums.

Yesterday I read an article about some guy named Jason Bradford being expelled from the PNG (Professional Numismatists Guid) for ethics violations and apparently he was the head of PCGS Currency at one point.

My question is: Is PCGS Currency recognized & respected in the numismatic community of banknote collectors the same way PCGS & NGC are recognized & respected in regards to grading coins?

Or did this whole Jason Bradford thing cause them to lose legitimacy & reputation?

I mostly collect (Ancient & US) coins so I’m not really familiar with the grading of banknotes.

I have this $10 silver certificate I got for my birthday as a gift from my uncle and I’m wondering if I should keep it in the current PCGS Currency holder or if I should send it in to PMG to have them grade and holder it?

Thanks

Steve_in_Tampa

Personally, I’ve never had a problem with most of the grades assigned by PCGS when it was being run by Jason Bradford (K3B) and haven’t regraded any of my collection that are in their holders…although many have. Their holders are still accepted and respected when submitted to major auction houses.

MKUltra24

@mbwizkid said:
Personally, I’ve never had a problem with most of the grades assigned by PCGS when it was being run by Jason Bradford (K3B) and haven’t regraded any of my collection that are in their holders…although many have. Their holders are still accepted and respected when submitted to major auction houses.

Thanks! I guess I’ll keep it as it is then. It’s not a super valuable note or anything so if the grading fees alone aren’t worth switching then I might as well leave it in the PCGS Currency holder.

tomtomtomtom

I agree with @mbwizkid ...all major auction houses are continuing to sell PCGS notes. Many felt that PCGS was stricter than PMG in their grading. While in business, their notes were listed in a very competitive registry. I would leave the note alone.

2ndCharter

There was never a problem with Jason as a grader and his knowledge of paper money. The fact that all the major auction houses readily accept his graded notes should answer that question. Unfortunately for him, the problem was that he really didn't know how to run a business properly. If he had stuck to what he did best - grading notes - and hired a First Class administrator to run the office, he would have done fine.

numbersman

All above that has been stated is accurate.BUT,what I see is the specifics of your note.....I have a hard time thinking that PMG will agree with the GEM grade and will likely lower the grade due to the top and bottom margins on the front of the note being too far off to rightfully deserve the GEM grade....this is, of course, just my opinion but it is backed up with many,many examples of graded notes from both PMG and PCGS with similar margin discrepancies.Likely that PMG will give it a 64.

MKUltra24

@numbersman said:
All above that has been stated is accurate.BUT,what I see is the specifics of your note.....I have a hard time thinking that PMG will agree with the GEM grade and will likely lower the grade due to the top and bottom margins on the front of the note being too far off to rightfully deserve the GEM grade....this is, of course, just my opinion but it is backed up with many,many examples of graded notes from both PMG and PCGS with similar margin discrepancies.Likely that PMG will give it a 64.

Well I’m sure the slightly off margins are the reason it got 65 and not 66 😉.

synchr

@numbersman said:
All above that has been stated is accurate.BUT,what I see is the specifics of your note.....I have a hard time thinking that PMG will agree with the GEM grade and will likely lower the grade due to the top and bottom margins on the front of the note being too far off to rightfully deserve the GEM grade....this is, of course, just my opinion but it is backed up with many,many examples of graded notes from both PMG and PCGS with similar margin discrepancies.Likely that PMG will give it a 64.

Fully agree, a Gem CU note should have Gem centering, that tight bottom margin looks like a 64 to me.

Jason and Laura did do damage to the name.
Some of us experienced over 1 year and 3 months turn around time after we had paid in full, up front, as required. (BTW, PMG only charges after the work gets done). Many times I would phone because emails were ignored and not responded to only to find that Laura would make an excuse "your notes are graded and on my desk, I just need to approve them" and in 6 more weeks my notes would ship. This repeatedly happened to the point where I just figured it was a charalatan's damage control tactic and I refused to submit any more notes to somebody playing games. 3 years later PCGS-C suddenly folded business wothout any warning and submitters were happy just to get their notes back ungraded although fees fully paid up front. When PCGS-C became confused, they graded a note 58PPQ - those are now sought after notes as far undergraded, most I received do not have folds or creases.

Obviously, the present proprietors have diversified their expertise, hired a staff of professionals and management team resulting in grading that is much more serious and businesslike. My only desire is that the new holders were the same size as the other grading agencies for storing them in groups

Jimnight

I would personally keep the note.

Serial_no_8

@Jimnight said:
I would personally keep the note.

-I agree that the certified $10 should not be tampered with. Just leave it in the PCGS holder.

"Jason and Laura did do damage to the name."
-For some, I'm sure this is true. And I think a lot of collectors will view & assess the note's true condition (rather than the holder) more carefully. I'm always skeptical with Legacy & try to do this with PMG/PCGS higher graded notes & lower graded BCS* holders (which often seem a bit generous oddly enough). As collectors, the onus is on every one of us to grade each individual note we come across if we're serious about purchasing any particular item, "buy the note, not the holder."

The certifiers are only human & they do make mistakes especially after certifying thousands of notes. The more notes one examines the higher chances that the grade may be a bit off. Each assessment takes time & I'm sure some of them rush through batches.

"Obviously, the present proprietors have diversified their expertise, hired a staff of professionals and management team resulting in grading that is much more serious and businesslike. "
-This is great news for the hobby. It only stands to reason that the auction houses recognize both PMG & PCGS as legitimate TPG certifiers.

*BCS - Banknote Certification Services

redsealguy

@MKUltra24 said:
I wanted to ask this question here as it’s the PCGS forums.

Yesterday I read an article about some guy named Jason Bradford being expelled from the PNG (Professional Numismatists Guid) for ethics violations and apparently he was the head of PCGS Currency at one point.

My question is: Is PCGS Currency recognized & respected in the numismatic community of banknote collectors the same way PCGS & NGC are recognized & respected in regards to grading coins?

Or did this whole Jason Bradford thing cause them to lose legitimacy & reputation?

I mostly collect (Ancient & US) coins so I’m not really familiar with the grading of banknotes.

I have this $10 silver certificate I got for my birthday as a gift from my uncle and I’m wondering if I should keep it in the current PCGS Currency holder or if I should send it in to PMG to have them grade and holder it?

Thanks

By the way the new PCGS Banknote is a completely different company and run by different people than the old PCGS Currency you're speaking of. They have different holders. I noticed nobody mentioned this here and wasn't sure you were aware that the new PCGS is currently grading paper money since January 2020 so they are another option besides PMG.

I don't think you need to have your note regraded. It's just fine in that holder and unlike other opinions I feel that it's a properly graded 65 (although not a strong 65) and I think PMG would give it the same grade as they are known to be generous in this range. I have seen many recently graded PMG 65's and 66's that look 64 to me so this note fits in with their typical 65 grade just fine. However you never know for sure. There's always a risk.

Also I owned your note at one time along with the two consecutive serial numbers before it.

MKUltra24

@redsealguy said:

@MKUltra24 said:
I wanted to ask this question here as it’s the PCGS forums.

Yesterday I read an article about some guy named Jason Bradford being expelled from the PNG (Professional Numismatists Guid) for ethics violations and apparently he was the head of PCGS Currency at one point.

My question is: Is PCGS Currency recognized & respected in the numismatic community of banknote collectors the same way PCGS & NGC are recognized & respected in regards to grading coins?

Or did this whole Jason Bradford thing cause them to lose legitimacy & reputation?

I mostly collect (Ancient & US) coins so I’m not really familiar with the grading of banknotes.

I have this $10 silver certificate I got for my birthday as a gift from my uncle and I’m wondering if I should keep it in the current PCGS Currency holder or if I should send it in to PMG to have them grade and holder it?

Thanks

By the way the new PCGS Banknote is a completely different company and run by different people than the old PCGS Currency you're speaking of. They have different holders. I noticed nobody mentioned this here and wasn't sure you were aware that the new PCGS is currently grading paper money since January 2020 so they are another option besides PMG.

I don't think you need to have your note regraded. It's just fine in that holder and unlike other opinions I feel that it's a properly graded 65 (although not a strong 65) and I think PMG would give it the same grade as they are known to be generous in this range. I have seen many recently graded PMG 65's and 66's that look 64 to me so this note fits in with their typical 65 grade just fine. However you never know for sure. There's always a risk.

Also I owned your note at one time along with the two consecutive serial numbers before it.

Thanks for the info!

You really owned this note?

Where did you sell it? I’m curious if I got it from the place you sold it too.

MKUltra24

@Serial_no_8 said:

@Jimnight said:
I would personally keep the note.

-I agree that the certified $10 should not be tampered with. Just leave it in the PCGS holder.

"Jason and Laura did do damage to the name."
-For some, I'm sure this is true. And I think a lot of collectors will view & assess the note's true condition (rather than the holder) more carefully. I'm always skeptical with Legacy & try to do this with PMG/PCGS higher graded notes & lower graded BCS* holders (which often seem a bit generous oddly enough). As collectors, the onus is on every one of us to grade each individual note we come across if we're serious about purchasing any particular item, "buy the note, not the holder."

The certifiers are only human & they do make mistakes especially after certifying thousands of notes. The more notes one examines the higher chances that the grade may be a bit off. Each assessment takes time & I'm sure some of them rush through batches.

"Obviously, the present proprietors have diversified their expertise, hired a staff of professionals and management team resulting in grading that is much more serious and businesslike. "
-This is great news for the hobby. It only stands to reason that the auction houses recognize both PMG & PCGS as legitimate TPG certifiers.

*BCS - Banknote Certification Services

Keep in mind “buy the note not the holder” only applies to currency one purchases.

This note was a gift from my uncle for my birthday ^_^

Ted 1

@synchr said:

@numbersman said:
All above that has been stated is accurate.BUT,what I see is the specifics of your note.....I have a hard time thinking that PMG will agree with the GEM grade and will likely lower the grade due to the top and bottom margins on the front of the note being too far off to rightfully deserve the GEM grade....this is, of course, just my opinion but it is backed up with many,many examples of graded notes from both PMG and PCGS with similar margin discrepancies.Likely that PMG will give it a 64.

Fully agree, a Gem CU note should have Gem centering, that tight bottom margin looks like a 64 to me.

Jason and Laura did do damage to the name.
Some of us experienced over 1 year and 3 months turn around time after we had paid in full, up front, as required. (BTW, PMG only charges after the work gets done). Many times I would phone because emails were ignored and not responded to only to find that Laura would make an excuse "your notes are graded and on my desk, I just need to approve them" and in 6 more weeks my notes would ship. This repeatedly happened to the point where I just figured it was a charalatan's damage control tactic and I refused to submit any more notes to somebody playing games. 3 years later PCGS-C suddenly folded business wothout any warning and submitters were happy just to get their notes back ungraded although fees fully paid up front. When PCGS-C became confused, they graded a note 58PPQ - those are now sought after notes as far undergraded, most I received do not have folds or creases.

Obviously, the present proprietors have diversified their expertise, hired a staff of professionals and management team resulting in grading that is much more serious and businesslike. My only desire is that the new holders were the same size as the other grading agencies for storing them in groups

PMG charges UP FRONT, not when work is done. Unsure where you heard different.