[card]score grading kiosk
blurryface
Posts: 5,136 ✭✭✭✭✭
interesting concept.
not big on the crowdsource grading part and obviously condition of a card could literally change the second its removed. i could see this being used as a pre-grade system for a tpg. it would certainly speed things up. could be a huge moneymaker if you could pre-grade at say $5, then send it in for an additional fee if you liked the pregrade. all depends on how accurate the analytic software. certainly could solve the back log issue w getting rid of the junk subs…
https://www.instagram.com/tv/CRH8enSFUh0/?utm_medium=copy_link
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just the fact that they are using a v600 is what perked my interest.
That was the first thing I noticed. At least they have that going for them. Although scanning raw cards can be done by most any CIS scanner. But they brought out the king!
Nic
Guides Authored - Graded Card Scanning Guide PDF | History of the PSA Label PDF
I love the brainstorming that's going on. We live in interesting times.
It's noteworthy that at this point, they're only letting you scan GRADED cards.
You don't send them the card - they just accept the scan thru their "scorekey." Eventually, these will be available for sale so that one can do this from their home with a good scanner or they may want you to have "their" brand/make?
CARDSCORE web LINK
I was just at my LCS and the owner asked me what I thought about this and I told him I had never heard of it - I got the idea he thought this was AI driven.
Here's Cardscore's input about how grading occurs:
Unless I'm missing something? This would be no more of value than if one posted here a really good scan of a card - the bigger the better and had a bunch of people here "re"grade your PSA graded card e.g.?
I like the video - if you have a Bose with your PC? Fire it up - kinda cool to listen while watching...
I couldn't find exact pricing on the web other than from the FAQ which quoted 10 to 100 bucks - I believe based on how fast one wants something evaluated?
Cardscore's statement on the "primary purpose"
My take? If they start having ungraded cards - I might give this whole thing a second look - not sure about the 10 spot?
Current Kiosk locations:
KIOSK LOCATIONS
Bring your card to a kiosk today to submit and see what your fellow collectors think. A higher Cardscore can help increase the card's market value. See the list below of card shop locations where we currently have kiosks.
Grand Rapids , Michigan
Legends Sports and Games, 3645 28th St SE, Grand Rapids, MI 49512
www.legendsfanshop.com
Dallas, Texas
SMP Sports Cards, 1671 W Northwest Highway, Grapevine, TX 76051
www.smpsportscards.com
Houston, Texas
Triple Play Treasures, 2618 Chestnut Ridge Rd Kingwood, TX 77339
www.tripleplaytreasures.com
Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Southpaw Sports Cards and Collectibles, 5734 S Sherwood Forest Blvd, Suite A, Baton Rouge, LA 70816
www.facebook.com/SouthpawSportsBR
Baltimore, Maryland
Bel Air Sports Cards, 201 Gateway Dr, Bel Air, MD 21014
www.belairsportscards.com
Why do I feel that they just changed their business model to "grading" Graded cards. Could have sworn that a couple weeks ago it was to crowdsource grade raw cards.
Otherwise all this is is a popularity contest between slabs of the same type and grade. Kind of like where PWCC gives those A, E , and S grades for eye appeal.
DOA as far as I'm concerned.
If this has any merit - which I don’t think it does - PSA will surely offer this service since they already will have the cards scanned (as this is getting more and more what they are doing when they grade) and on a web-site people go to and use. I cannot see this taking off and if it somehow does cannot see CardScore being the company that is successful in it long term.
i think it has crazy potential on a grander scale. much like psa/dna quick opinion option. and would help with the backlog problem yet still making money off each card w little to no overhead. when card arrives in house pregraded, graders just need to confirm what genamint suggested. theyd profit $10 a card on psa 7s and never have to touch, log, research, insure, store or holder the damn thing thus alleviating 12+ month turnaround times for everyone else. then when in house, charge another $15 a pop to holder the card.
basically “as is” no. the idea and what it could be? no brainer.
solves a ton of problems while eliminating a ton of overhead.
Yeah if you told me I could scan a raw card and submit it for $10 and have a hundred plus "crowd graders" tell me what the average grade is, I would do that all day.
Charging potentially $100 and ONLY accept slabbed cards, I'll pass.
If the kiosk could also do some sort of quick search of completed auctions for scanned cards in that grading range - well now I think we have something in place with TREMENDOUS value to the world. Think of it just from the perspective of this... Every Tom Dick & Jane with a box of cards in a closet could quickly and relatively inexpensively learn that their junk wax is not only unworthy of PSA 10 in almost every instance, but also there is almost no market for it.
Every time a friend of a friend asks you to appraise their crappy cards, you could just send them to the nearest kiosk. Heck for that reason alone I'm all for it.
Assuming that grading is done by looking at Centering, Corners, Edges and Surface, I can see the scans helping with all except the surface. It's difficult to grab that Surface quality in some cases. Small spider wrinkles or stains, or hairline surface imperfections are difficult to see in a scan.
Also, cards that are slightly just outside acceptable size requirements (either from the factory or trimmed) would be difficult to detect unless the technology has a way to determine overall card dimensions based on the scan.
Tech currently exists to do Surface better than humans but DEV and Gear related costs would be high. It won't be long though. Card grader as an occupation could go the way of bank teller? Now Comic Book Grading, given interiors must be examined with extreme care that could still be a decade away from near full or full automation.
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
im saying even get rid of the “crowdsource” bit. replace it w the genamint technology. theyd make hand over fist while decreasing actual cards physically received. an automated raw card review.
Like the idea and concept. Don’t think it will pick up very light creases or wrinkles though. Might not think it is a big deal but that changes a grade from a 4 to an 8. This example was a 4 because they said there was a light wrinkle on back that we could not find with a loupe, blacked out room, and LED light.
I'm gonna guess that eventually they'll be doing ungraded cards.
For it to get the thumbs up for a high end 9 e.g. a la PWCC - it would have to be widely respected - that might be a rough road to hoe?
I did see a company at our local show this weekend - who some may know - they're out of Dallas.
Dallas Card Investors:
Talked to the owner - was interesting.
He said they're a big submitter to PSA so they would never want to slab their own cards - this is more of a quick grade for 10 bucks and placed in a Beckett-like sealed semi-rigid.
I asked a few dealers and in our area (about the claim by the company) they like the fact that they can flip a raw 50 buck - good going rate - card for more in the 100 range if the card gets a 10 (from Dallas). That would hypothetically be a card if a PSA 10 might bring say $250 or more - possibly?
These guys hit all the bigs in Texas - will be at the National.
The owner expressed that his graders are good enough that their grades match PSA's with immense accuracy.
I watched - these guys are faster beating down grades than me knocking off a bag of Doritos.
And what they look like?
Now what I didn't like:
Didn't take a separate pic (wish I had) - they're selling their own "graded" cards.
I asked the owner if that was a conflict of interest? Answer: no (with some double talk about valuation) Me? Conflict of interest.
What I just gave was "their" take - not mine other than the conflict of interest.
So. Please go easy on the messenger.
Hiya Keith
Geoff Wilson - the Sports Card Investor - interviewed the SGC people and he showed one of these things:
It's the Foster - Freeman VSC80
and the card used in showing the operation of the scanner:
in viewing the card Geoff thought it was like a 6 and didn't see any wrinkles/creases or anything like that...
Then this showed up - I would've guessed that I would see this? But Geoff said he didn't if my memory is correct.
Pretty soon with better technology and AI? Perhaps the job of a grader will be way less work?
Right now - the VSC80 is used to authenticate old books and documents also.
Thanks for the deep dive Mike, I really appreciate the effort.
Great stuff Mike and thank you for sharing the details. That looks pretty cool.
I'm in GR and one of my buddies is an owner of this....I think they have a nice business model for an ancillary service that they can expand over time to do more things with. I'm going to go put a couple in and see what happens...
EDIT- Of CardScore, not this clown patrol in Dallas
https://www.ebay.com/itm/284364745108?hash=item423575a994:g:rFAAAOSwGUNgz-rH
Solid 6..
Is it a 20 point scale or what does 6 mean?
Umm, that will be a miscut, not a 6, right? have a 65 Morgan rookie cut quite better than that was deemed a miscut and not graded
Wow!
This is beyond deplorable.
I spoke with the owner and he said they were a top submitter to PSA and that the grades assigned totally matched those at PSA.
What?
In a parallel universe?
edit: thanx Nick and Keith
what were they charging? Ill grade your cards as long as you pay for my real PSA sub. Nice
Well the 6 sold for the same as a Psa 1.5 that sold recently for 255. But less than a Psa 1 that sold for 325.00 . So that’s something
too bad the $2750 sticker wasn't bigger to cover the other 3 corners as well. we never woulda known! 😉
Wow that is awful. Dallas Card Investors grading - complete nonsense.
yeah, that was my first thought...how would that not be a miscut, or if not, much worse than a 6 then...
Alright which one of you graded this a 6!!! There are only 2 of you!!
Nic
Guides Authored - Graded Card Scanning Guide PDF | History of the PSA Label PDF
I think I would fire the guy on the right just for dirty sandals with khakis. That's worse than that 6 grade!
view from the other side of the table:
Thank you for the great posts about this, Mike.
I know that took some time and I appreciate the effort.
There was a thread where the VSC80 was discussed before.
I could see a future where defects are classified in four ways:
Visible with the naked eye.
Visible with magnification.
Visible with technology.
Altered.
If you truly cannot see the Mantle defect with the naked eye or magnification, and it is not due to alteration (the video says the card would get a numerical grade indicating SGC did not think the card was altered), I would pay up for a card that you can only see a defect with technology. When this technology becomes the norm - think we will get a report showing the defects and a grade. The defect report and how they are described will have a big impact on value. A picture like Mike screen capped above in the report should become standard. For this card I would say as a grader “there is significant surface damage to this card that is not visible with the naked eye or magnification, but is exposed with video spectral comparator technology”. I will buy these cards at a discount any time they present themselves. The right 5 with a report like this could outsell a 7 if others feel the way I do.
I'm all for a scanner detecting proper sizing, but all other defects should be held for a human eye to detect, after all it is humans who are buying and enjoying these things