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Bad 1856 cent on HiBid

burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,568 ✭✭✭✭✭

I have seen HiBid advertised in the RareCoin Market Report; they currently have a bad 1856 Eagle cent in auction per the images.

I have sent a note through their webpage with no response and the auction still active- hopefully no one gets burned on this but the bids are up to $3705...

Comments

  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 9, 2021 1:05PM

    that 6 is redonkulous.

    how is it that MORE sites listing counterfeits are popping up along with ads. (doug davis even commented on this in a recently posted vid)

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • Steven59Steven59 Posts: 9,896 ✭✭✭✭✭

    LOL! - Yes, the 6 looks like the schoolyard bully!

    "When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 35,802 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @LanceNewmanOCC said:
    that 6 is redonkulous.

    how is it that MORE sites listing counterfeits are popping up along with ads. (doug davis even commented on this in a recently posted vid)

    Hi Bid is not a coin site. It is an auction hosting site. That actual coin is being sold by an auction house and only hosted by HiBid. They host all kinds of auctions.

  • burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,568 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 9, 2021 2:44PM

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @LanceNewmanOCC said:
    that 6 is redonkulous.

    how is it that MORE sites listing counterfeits are popping up along with ads. (doug davis even commented on this in a recently posted vid)

    Hi Bid is not a coin site. It is an auction hosting site. That actual coin is being sold by an auction house and only hosted by HiBid. They host all kinds of auctions.

    So who should I contact for help with this bad listing?

  • burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,568 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That's where I started- no response.

  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    anyone cross-reference whois?

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • koynekwestkoynekwest Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That 1856 FE is SO fake. Not deceptive at all.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 35,802 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @LanceNewmanOCC said:
    anyone cross-reference whois?

    Again, HI Bid is just hosting. Whois won't help with the actual auction company whose name is in the listing.

    Vail Auctioneers Inc. In WA

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 24,594 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @koynekwest said:
    That 1856 FE is SO fake. Not deceptive at all.

    It is deceptive enough to get bidding up to $3705 with 41 bids!

    All glory is fleeting.
  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @LanceNewmanOCC said:
    anyone cross-reference whois?

    Again, HI Bid is just hosting. Whois won't help with the actual auction company whose name is in the listing.

    Vail Auctioneers Inc. In WA

    .
    that's not what i was getting at.

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 35,802 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @LanceNewmanOCC said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @LanceNewmanOCC said:
    anyone cross-reference whois?

    Again, HI Bid is just hosting. Whois won't help with the actual auction company whose name is in the listing.

    Vail Auctioneers Inc. In WA

    .
    that's not what i was getting at.

    Sorry, but I don't understand what you're getting at then.

  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 9, 2021 5:44PM

    @burfle23 said:
    I have sent a note through their webpage with no response and the auction still active- hopefully no one gets burned on this but the bids are up to $3705...

    .

    through hibid or vail auctions direct?

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 35,080 ✭✭✭✭✭

    $3805 and just over 12 hours left!

    I anyone going to be awake now to do anything?

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,543 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @291fifth said:

    @koynekwest said:
    That 1856 FE is SO fake. Not deceptive at all.

    It is deceptive enough to get bidding up to $3705 with 41 bids!

    ................and that's why they're probably not answering.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • koynekwestkoynekwest Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @291fifth said:

    @koynekwest said:
    That 1856 FE is SO fake. Not deceptive at all.

    It is deceptive enough to get bidding up to $3705 with 41 bids!

    Then these bidders should be collecting beanie babies. They sure don't know anything about coins. I wonder, too, how many of these bids are legit. They need to learn at least the basics when spending that kind of money.

  • SnapsSnaps Posts: 195 ✭✭✭✭

    That FE was only a drop in the bucket of all the counterfeit coins that are up for sale on that auction. There are gold plated 2021 AGEs going for gold melt. There is a 1917 LWC DDO also that is fake as the day is long. All the gold plated bars that people were bidding as one ounce gold bars. The silver eagles are all fake, also. I also contacted the auctioneer(Vail) about the fake 2021 AGEs. I asked if they came with COAs and never received a response, either. This was on the 6th.

    My biggest astonishment is the people bidding thousands of dollars on fake precious metals. The gold plated bars have 500 MILLS .999 GOLD stamped on one side. A quick search revealed the bars were gold plated base metal with varying thicknesses of gold plate. The silver eagle reverses had no lines in the eagle's feathers. This could easily have been verified by looking at the mint website and comparing pictures, Most of the Morgans had that counterfeit XF look to them. All of those auctions are "as is, where is" there are no refunds. Hopefully, there is not that many ignorant buyers out there and the bidders are cops.

    The auctioneer(Vail) goes through HiBid. I just now sent HiBid an inquiry into the Vail Auctioneers counterfeit coin sales. I'll keep pressing the issue with them until the auction closes or they end the auction before closing. There are better coin deals on eBay or great collections than most of these auction sites. I have bought other items from these auction sites. I can say I have gotten some pretty good deals. Coins, though, are mostly overbid by a lot.

  • koynekwestkoynekwest Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Do you mean misattributed instead of fake? The majority of many varieties listed on ebay are not what the sellers claim them to be.

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 35,080 ✭✭✭✭✭

    500 mils on a fake 1oz gold is quite a bit of gold since 500 mils is half an inch. That thickness would likely make the whole thing solid gold.

    Are you sure it wasn’t 50 mils?

    I found some high end fakes being sold by someone with 100 mils. They were several hundred a pop.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • Steven59Steven59 Posts: 9,896 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 9, 2021 8:26PM

    Well the bars are stamped 500 Mills - not Mils. So i guess that's how they get around that.
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/393110147839?

    "When they can't find anything wrong with you, they create it!"

  • relicsncoinsrelicsncoins Posts: 8,103 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I contacted the auctioneer and let them know the coin is either an altered date or an outright fake.

    Need a Barber Half with ANACS photo certificate. If you have one for sale please PM me. Current Ebay auctions
  • burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,568 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @LanceNewmanOCC said:

    @burfle23 said:
    I have sent a note through their webpage with no response and the auction still active- hopefully no one gets burned on this but the bids are up to $3705...

    .

    through hibid or vail auctions direct?

    @LanceNewmanOCC said:

    @burfle23 said:
    I have sent a note through their webpage with no response and the auction still active- hopefully no one gets burned on this but the bids are up to $3705...

    .

    through hibid or vail auctions direct?

    Both.

  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,543 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Normal non collector peeps usually know very little to nothing about this stuff. They either refuse or balk at trying to learn anything. Lemmings. Led to the financial slaughter.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • ElmerFusterpuckElmerFusterpuck Posts: 4,777 ✭✭✭✭✭

    As a hosting site, they sure do offer up a lot of trash.

  • burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,568 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Well, it apparently sold...

    I believe I found another for $8 B) - https://www.amazon.com/1856-Flying-Eagle-Cent-Decorate/dp/B08J7LPYVV/ref=sr_1_8?crid=3AI2J0R0RFMHH&amp;dchild=1&amp;keywords=1856 flying eagle cent&amp;qid=1625690657&amp;sprefix=1856 ,aps,241&amp;sr=8-8&amp;fbclid=IwAR0arcCnerhPwijb6ASBMQ4JOWpsD-XzYIDvpUJPrIAB54oVDmTLJQlcqaE

    I was hoping there was some way to stop it prior to the end; uncomfortable with them as an advertiser in PCGS's publication...

  • davewesendavewesen Posts: 6,609 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I figure most of their crap went to the shill bidder, hoping there are not 2 people with more money than numismatic knowledge

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 35,802 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ElmerFusterpuck said:
    As a hosting site, they sure do offer up a lot of trash.

    They don't offer anything. It's the country auction houses who use it.

    It's kind of logical, really. If you are a big player, you have your own app or software. If you are a small country auctioneer that is prohibitively expensive and so HiBid.

    There are some legitimate, honest auctioneers and some crooks. Unfortunately, both use HiBid

  • koynekwestkoynekwest Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I am of the belief that the bids on this POS were not legit. I certainly hope they weren't.

  • sellitstoresellitstore Posts: 3,053 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Bidding on Ebay is like going to Europe while bidding on HiBid is like going to a Third-World country-you better know how to navigate the territory. HiBid, like Ebay, is a platform for sale of a lot of stuff, so there are always buys if you are willing to look and sift through a lot of trash. Ebay polices their sellers more than HiBid and many other major platforms, and Ebay still offers fakes but there are more buyer protections on Ebay and fakes are more rampant on other sites. And yet there are gems to be found here and there on both Ebay and HiBid.

    Collector and dealer in obsolete currency. Always buying all obsolete bank notes and scrip.
  • burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,568 ✭✭✭✭✭

    OK, I tried several approaches to reporting the bad HiBid 1856 FE including a PM on their FB page.

    Got this message from FB and not sure what it means going forward...

  • koynekwestkoynekwest Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What kind of buyer protection does HiBid offer? I tried looking on their "About HiBid" selection but I couldn't find anything.

  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @burfle23 said:

    .
    can you send them a picture? send one with your email/phone typed out in the image so software cannot detect it and any other text, including the link to the auction/coins in question.

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 35,802 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @koynekwest said:
    What kind of buyer protection does HiBid offer? I tried looking on their "About HiBid" selection but I couldn't find anything.

    None. Any protection comes from the suction house.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 35,802 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @burfle23 said:
    OK, I tried several approaches to reporting the bad HiBid 1856 FE including a PM on their FB page.

    Got this message from FB and not sure what it means going forward...

    It's probably the Chinese reference

  • koynekwestkoynekwest Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's a place I'd steer clear of.> @jmlanzaf said:

    @koynekwest said:
    What kind of buyer protection does HiBid offer? I tried looking on their "About HiBid" selection but I couldn't find anything.

    None. Any protection comes from the suction house.

    Then it's a place I'd steer clear of.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 35,802 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 11, 2021 3:45AM

    @koynekwest said:
    It's a place I'd steer clear of.> @jmlanzaf said:

    @koynekwest said:
    What kind of buyer protection does HiBid offer? I tried looking on their "About HiBid" selection but I couldn't find anything.

    None. Any protection comes from the suction house.

    Then it's a place I'd steer clear of.

    You are trying to turn it into ebay. I use it all the time because my local auction house uses it for their online bidding.

    You don't go to HiBid. You go to the auction house that uses it.

    It is NOT a marketplace like eBay or Amazon. It's a proxy bidding service that auction houses pay to use.

  • burfle23burfle23 Posts: 2,568 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Interesting development:

  • BuffaloIronTailBuffaloIronTail Posts: 7,543 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @burfle23

    I think it means that they don't believe you.

    Pete

    "I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
  • SnapsSnaps Posts: 195 ✭✭✭✭

    @MsMorrisine said:
    500 mils on a fake 1oz gold is quite a bit of gold since 500 mils is half an inch. That thickness would likely make the whole thing solid gold.

    Are you sure it wasn’t 50 mils?

    I found some high end fakes being sold by someone with 100 mils. They were several hundred a pop.

    That was the reason it caught my eye. It was the use of the word MILLS that got me to questioning it. Those bars were the first thing that got me to looking into the rest of the coins. When I got on to the auction the bars had only been bid up to around $15. Which was normal for what they sell for on other platforms. Even the other gold plated rounds and bars were at reasonable bids at the time. Early on I figured the bidders knew what they were buying, even if the description was misleading. By the next day the bids were well beyond reasonable for plated metals. That is when I started contacting the auctioneer. With no response. Twice more I sent inquiries to HiBid with no response. I didn't go back to the auction to see if people got ripped off.

    There are other coin auctions out there besides HiBid. But, I think the same people that were bidding on plated metals recklessly, are also bidding in these other auctions. Most of the auctioned items go for a lot more than on eBay. I wonder if these people even realize the buyer's premium some of these auctioneers charge. I have seen one as high as 20%BP. Routinely 18%BP. Then if there are taxes this could add another 8% on the coin and BP total. Coins are not what got me onto these auctions. I was looking for other items to stock my eBay store, which does not sell coins. But, while I am looking for merchandise to stock the store I will look at the coins too.

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