One ton of silver is worth less than $1 million....
cohodk
Posts: 19,084 ✭✭✭✭✭
So why would investors, real market moving investors with tens or hundreds of million, want to buy silver? They wouldnt. Its almost like the guy who has barrels and barrels of wheat cents in his garage. Why bother?
What will it take for big investors, not J6P with his 10 ASE's, to enter the physical market?
Excuses are tools of the ignorant
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
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JPM has around a billion silver ounces. How many tons is that?
For those that ask "why would bullion banks want to keep prices down?":
"While short selling these COMEX futures, they were able to amass huge stockpiles of gold and silver at bargain-bin prices. They now hold an estimated 25 million ounces of gold and around 1 billion ounces of silver."
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
@cohodk asked: “ So why would investors, real market moving investors with tens or hundreds of million, want to buy silver? ”
I guess it’s harder to walk off with than a million in gold.
nm
Investors will never enter the field where industrialists work. It's too laborious. What gratification is there in having the tools of your trade at work in another's ?
1000 oz Silver Bar Dimensions
The 1000 oz silver bar is truly a hefty block of silver. Exact size varies because of the variance in the casting method - but approximate dimensions, depending on manufacturer, are around 12" x 5" x 31 /4 " That's a little more than the width of a regular house brick and around one and a half times the length! 1000 troy ounces is equivalent to 31.103 kilograms or 68.571 avoirdupois pounds.
So according to my calculations, this comes to 29,170 ounces (for an avoidupois ounce, not troy, so 16 oz @ 28.3495 g not 12 oz @ 31.1 g. So this wouldn't take up a lot of space - you could fit it on a pallet.
This has been quoted time and time again, yet no one has ever shown silver on the JPM balance sheet.
So why would a holder of 1 billion oz of silver want to keep prices down? What is the incentive, especially if that holder could use that silver as collateral to make loans and create income?
Jmski is the red herring expert so im surprised he isnt all over this.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Yes...it would fit on a pallet but thats not the issue.
The issue is that that pallet is only worth 1 million, which to big investors is inconsequential to even consider. A big investor needs 10s of pallets, and he isnt going to buy into that. Unless that pallet was worth 10 million or more, he probably wont even bother.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Verily. So a massive subset of investors is turned off by the bulk and relative lack of value.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Well because you know if JPM let the price of silver rise all the banks on the planet would collapse. Yes you heard it right, a metal nobody on the planet cares about would collapse the whole financial system according to these nuts. Either that or JPM just likes being stuck in the gutter with the rest of us, lol
Is anyone here good with math? If a tom of silver were in the form of a cube, what would the dimensions of this cube be?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
JPM may have a billion ounces but do you really believe it ? Keep trading in paper for physical silver.. The powers that be are getting nervous.
Doesn't give dimensions but here's a good visualization. It's the small cube which looks similar to a 24x24x24 box.
https://demonocracy.info/infographics/world/silver/silver.html
I calculated that a silver cube which is 1.451' on each side weighs one ton.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
As mentioned in another post if only 1% of the money in equities was reallocate to silver the price would skyrocket. Currently silver demand is about 1.1 million ounces. If 1 million people decided tomorrow to buy a one ounce coin or round that would double the demand. All it would take, barring manipulation, is a relatively small interest or redirect of asset to drive the price up dramatically.
So why would a holder of 1 billion oz of silver want to keep prices down? What is the incentive, especially if that holder could use that silver as collateral to make loans and create income?
Jmski is the red herring expert so im surprised he isnt all over this.
So why would JPM be holding a billion oz of silver anyway? Do you know that they don't rehypothecate silver the same way that the bullion banks do with gold? JPM doesn't necessarily want to keep silver prices down, except when they want silver prices down for their own benefit.
Why would JPM be in the silver market at all, in spite of being fined for price manipulation - if it weren't a lucrative niche for them? Aren't they one of the trustees for that sleight-of-hand entity SLV? What better way to play the game than to own the House and to control the odds.
The only difference between honest stackers and JPM is that JPM can afford to pay the fines and still make money manipulating the market while front running their own clientele. They make profits in paper and turn it into silver inventory just like derryb.
Same idea as what derryb does except that derryb doesn't own Comex or SLV and can't play with the market at will.
I knew it would happen.
Roughly 3.3 cubic feet. Or about the same a short-bed pickup fill> @pmh1nic said:
Right. So how to get that 1% to reallocate?
One million people wont buy when they see a price in the shop much different than the price in the paper or at the top of a dealer website.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
I don't think you personally know any "big investors", nor are you a spokesperson for any. So when you speak to what they probably would or wouldn't do, that is purely a guess on your part. And in this case, a completely wrong guess.
Warren Buffett had large silver holdings at one time, when the price was less that $10 per ounce. To get the same total (net) value you would need more than twice the volume of silver at $10 than you would at $27.
Noted investor Kyle Bass bought 20 million ordinary nickels (U.S. 5-cent pieces) in 2013. If a lowly 5-cent coin is capable of attracting attention from a large investor, then silver certainly could as well.
https://coinweek.com/bullion-report/the-nickel-hoarding-billionaire/
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Yeah..about 18" x 18" by 18". So i suppose that would fit in a gun safe.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Well, what you think has no relevance. But, your "thinking" would be wrong...again. Maybe just stick to the trinket trade. Cant you control your trolls derryb?
So Kyls Bass bought $1 million worth of nickels. Hes a billionaire, so what % of his worth did he invest? And while were at it...why did he buy nickel? Does he think its a better investment than silver?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Pretty sure Buffet was just a glorified a paper puppet. He never owned physical gutter. Guess he saved the premiums. lol
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I knew people (my step Dad for one) that bought boxes of nickels to hold. Melt value was above face value at the time. Same thing for pre 82 cents. They also stacked up on Forever Stamps. I think P.Schiff was telling people with little investment $$$ to do the same at the time (2011 ish).
@cohodk said:
"The issue is that that pallet is only worth 1 million, which to big investors is inconsequential to even consider. A big investor needs 10s of pallets, and he isn't going to buy into that."
The statement is PROVED FALSE.
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15.9 million ounces of physical silver delivered by COMEX July 1.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
It's a boring metal, Dave. If you want excitement, go play in the palladium field.
Its false because you found one person who bought nickels?
Nickel aint silver and you found one dude who preferred nickels. You crack me up.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
I want silver at $500, so im trying to find out how the collective plans to get it there. Seems theyd rather sit around and wait for "them" to make it happen. Yeah, that is boring.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Delivered to whom? A big investor, an ETF, a bullion dealet?
Keeep in mind, this is about $430 million. Thats a good start, but we need 10s of billions.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Likely all of the above. lol
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
You made a blanket statement that "a big investor" would not do what Kyle Bass did. Kyle Bass is definitely a "big investor".
So I proved that your statement was wrong. Simple as that.
No you didnt. Bass bought nickels, not silver. That is pretty simple.
BTW- im loving your infatuation.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Your contention was that silver was too bulky for a big investor to bother with.
A million dollars in nickels is a lot more voluminous than a million dollars in silver.
So by any valid logic, your claim that a big investor would never consider holding a million dollar palette is clearly wrong.
I didnt use the word never. Nor did i say million dollar palatte. In fact, if your comprehension was a bit stronger, you would have realized that i was saying that one ton of silver would have to be worth substantially more than 1 million to encourage investing. The bulk to dollar ratio for silver dissuades investors. The ratio needs to come down and since we cant change physics, we need to change price.
Now, what can we do to increase demand and get more silver into the hands of people?
Maybe you can buy me a coffee someday?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Silver is so thinly traded, a few big players would disrupt the market. Remember the Hunt Bros?
100% Positive BST transactions
Seems to me that markets which ensued after the Hunt Bros ., is exactly what's kept silver from going to $500. But wood and toilet paper, along with masks have shown their value this past year. As did the petro dollar in its time.
Stacking is boring. Until I need some lumber.
I noticed gas is up about a buck.
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No matter how you slice it, the intended meaning of the above statement is plainly wrong.
PS:
I never claimed that you wrote "million dollar palatte". But you did write "[the] pallet is only worth 1 million". You can deny that you originally wrote "million dollar palatte" and you would be technically correct, due to the different combination of letters used. But the intended meaning is clearly the same, regardless.
Whenever anyone else on this forum makes up some "facts" and assumptions (like you did about what a "big investor" might do), you would call them out on it. It is only fair to return the favor.
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Regulators shut down the Hunt Bros. and any effort for silver to climb further. And since then they turn a blind eye to the bullion banks' efforts to keep the price in check.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
...> @derryb said:
That's what I was implying.
So anyway, I wouldn't mind having my stack worth a million. I can dream.
Who agrees with this statement:
“The Hunts tried to manipulate the silver market.”
Can I replace "manipulate" with corner?
Capitalism reigns , as long as the powers that be have controls.
manipulate in the much discussed sense would be illegally ... in the hunt's sense... raising prices to get undeserved gains.
they simply wanted all of the silver to force higher prices and making their holdings and their control of the market worth more.
I think if a lone entity tried the same today, it'd be stopped, too. unfair competition. however, I don't think it is manipulation as we talk about it.
That was long before the trillions of $$$ in paper derivatives. The banksters are the ones who manipulate the silver price hig> @Higashiyama said:
Me, manipulation is the only time it significantly goes up. Just like when JPM manipulated it to almost $50 back in 2011. The redditors cant get it past $26 but at least they did pump it there. lol
The only inference I have been able to reach over the last 30+ years since I first heard this claim is that it's supposedly part of the dastardly conspiracy to maintain confidence in the USD, even though this conspiracy has been far less successful in suppressing gold.
But then, silver must actually be a more important monetary metal even though it has no remaining function in the financial system.
Because of the bigger picture of which JPM is only a big player. The reason there is a lid on PM spot prices is because of how it compares with the currency. JPM is following orders with its moves on the COMEX and is stockpiling PMs at bargain prices because they know they are underpriced. They know the day will come when they will be correctly priced.
All things economic are dependent on perception. Low PM prices strengthen the perception of the power of the dollar and help to remove consideration of PMs as an alternative. JPM is one of many bullion banks doing the bidding of the FED and the Treasury.
Five felony counts against JPM in recent years and no one in jail, only fines. Why is that? Because they are the dollar masters' bidder in multiple markets. The big bullion banks have an unwritten partnership with those fighting to keep the dollar alive.
Do not lose sight the the dollar and not PMs are the meat and potatoes of commericial banks. Similar to an FBI informant whose continuing criminal activity is "overlooked." The FED and Treasury simply use the Justice Department to control the banks.
With its monsterous holdings, JPM would love nothing more than to get the go ahead to let PMs flourish. Until then they are just a puppet in the futures market, but rest assured they would not be stockpiling without a good reason.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
I wish someone would post an accounting of silver on JPMs balance sheet.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Its almost like the guy who has barrels and barrels of wheat cents in his garage. Why bother?
>
This Guy ?
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb
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Crooks hide things.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Not true. He bought millions of physical ounces.
https://sdbullion.com/blog/warren-buffett-silver-hoard-1997-to-2006