Home U.S. Coin Forum

BUYER BEWARE! The coin is back! This is NOT the 1942-Inverted S at GC.

keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,454 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited April 8, 2023 2:49PM in U.S. Coin Forum

~Start Edit For the Most Part~
BUYER BEWARE
This coin was listed at GC for maybe almost a year and did not sell. Then the dealer had it at shows for a really long time and could not sell it. Now it is at GC again. I even told the dealer at a show that it was not the variety.

Since this coin is "TIED TOP POP" in the current state, it is taking registry points away from DLH. Another disservice. DLH's example should be a stand alone Top Pop.
@JBatDavidLawrence

This has been listed on Great Collections again and it is STILL NOT THE VARIETY.
PCGS has had this coin in their hands twice and made the mistake twice, blessing it as the variety. PCGS Should buy it back at this point and correct the POPS so someone doesn't get ripped off.
LINK to BAD COIN at GC

~End Edit For the Most Part~

1942-S Mercury Dime FS-501 Inverted Mintmark
Many of us know that there are multiple dates in the 1940s that have Invented S Mintmarks for Mercury Dimes. Only the 1942-S is in the Cherrypickers' Guide and therefore, there is only one blessed by the PCGS Mercury Dimes Complete Variety Registry Set. That's fine.

The Cherrypickers' Guide for this variety has photos of a normal and and Inverted S Mintmark. The inverted example has serifs and the written description even references those serifs in the text. If we look at ALL aka 100% of the examples PCGS Coin Facts has for this variety, we see the following examples.

Below are cropped images from PCGS CoinFacts. They are not my photos and they are not my coins.
MS67+FB

MS66FB

MS67

MS66

MS65

AU55

And below is the newest example attributed by PCGS as THE FS-501. Anyone, besides me, notice anything different? It is currently for sale and has been for sale for close to a year. I notified the auction house that this coin is in fact AN Inverted S but it is definitely NOT THE FS-501. They humored me, maybe even believed me, and sent it back to PCGS for verification. I just heard back from the auction house that they received the coin back from PCGS who confirmed that the variety is correct after they had it reviewed by multiple variety experts at their Santa Ana location.

MS67+FB

Granted, I do not know if all of this information was so eloquently passed along by the auction house to PCGS for this verification in 2021. If this information was not passed along then I could see a person looking at this coin and saying yes, it is different.

It's the only example that doesn't look like all of the others in Coin Facts.

"If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners. :smile:

Comments

  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 20, 2021 4:25PM

    what does the most recent CPG show for the inverted?

    i guess generically, calling any style mm inverted is fine, that is just how the tpg handle a lot of things and some books.

    to be more official, which is what you are aiming at, and i agree, is to have a delineation between an inverted trumpet tail and inverted actual large s. i say actual large s because the trumpet is referred to as large on a couple/few issues even though it isn't the large s and even though the large s also exists on some of the coinage with trumpet tail on the same year/mm. c'est la vie

    i can't say off the top of my head but evidence leads me to believe from your post that the inverted trumpet tail is a significantly rare coin inverted on this date/mm

    it is worth a hefty premium over its inverted large s brother. imo

    edited to add: i appreciate the point you make about the poor man 55 but not quite the same thing since that is just md. now if it had a brother that was, say 50-70% as strong, was an actual doubled die not recognized (crazy right) as an official fs variety and got labeled under the same banner and there are some instances where varieties are treated this way in the pops, i would agree with you.

    ok dinner is calling!

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,454 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 20, 2021 5:11PM

    @LanceNewmanOCC
    The CPG shows the inverted S just like the first 6 examples in my post.

    As far as my joke about the 1955 1c, it was really just that. I even used winky face. For clarity and to keep this free of distractions, I have edited my post to remove those references.

    Rarity does not even come into play and is besides the point for my post. Either the coin is THE FS-501 as shown in the CPG or it is NOT. The CPG depicts an S with Serifs like the first 6 examples in my post, not a Trumpet Tail.

    "If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
    Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners. :smile:
  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭

    you've answered your own question. obviously the trumpet tail is not the designated large S (actual large s) which is inverted for the 501. ( i really don't know at this point if i'd like to be a fly on the wall for some of the conversations that take place with decision makers regarding things like this as i can smell politics leeching in too often obscuring the purity of the issue)

    the real question is, " can the trumpet tail inverted mm for this date receive a separate designation with FS, as imo, it should."
    a. with FS b. with tpg (pcgs)
    a. high chance b. wholly dependent upon the first.

    and if not, should it be slopped together with the 501. a real travesty if it turns out to be a real rarity which everything seems to show it is.

    that is a coin that, if you can, snagged it up right away for the potential long-term. i know people that hold coins for months, even years waiting for inclusion and slowly just stash them away. nothing wrong with it as it is usually those people that lobby to get some additions and if their knowledge and hard work yields them some profit, cavet emptor!

    usually rarity and perceived value can help grease the wheels with new FS listings. seen it many times and not that there is anything wrong with it.

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,197 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Different “S”, Different Variety

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • cmerlo1cmerlo1 Posts: 7,891 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 21, 2021 6:52AM

    I see a trumpet-tail S in the proper orientation.

    The CPG separates the 1947-S/D varieties by mintmark style, so if the CPG lists the serif S as the variety, that's the S it needs to be. Like MsMorrisine said, different S = different variety.

    You Suck! Awarded 6/2008- 1901-O Micro O Morgan, 8/2008- 1878 VAM-123 Morgan, 9/2022 1888-O VAM-1B3 H8 Morgan | Senior Regional Representative- ANACS Coin Grading. Posted opinions on coins are my own, and are not an official ANACS opinion.
  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 20, 2021 8:18PM

    i am pretty sure i made a mistake. i forgot all about the ball serif which that looks like it is and if it is, it is inverted. if the trumpet tail, like cmerlo states, normal orientation.

    images curtosey of a page i've used dozens of times, though my commentary tonight doesn't reflect that. thanks again varietyvista.

    ball serif

    trumpet

    mm in question.

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,454 ✭✭✭✭✭

    So, it seems unanimous so far that the coin in question is NOT the FS-501 as depicted in the Cherrypickers’ Guide. It could just be a Trumpet Tail style S, not inverted at all.

    What would you do at this point? Contact PCGS and let them know of this thread? Who exactly to contact?

    "If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
    Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners. :smile:
  • keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,454 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Bumping the thread from 2021. I edited the OP a bit. The coin has been relisted at GC.

    "If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
    Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners. :smile:
  • CrustyCrusty Posts: 1,073 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ianrussell

    What is your take on this?

  • keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,454 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Crusty said:
    @ianrussell

    What is your take on this?

    I informed Ian of this in 2021. He convinced the consignor that it should be sent to PCGS again. It went to PCGS and they made the mistake again, calling it the Inverted S. Ian was most supportive. It is PCGS that has been wrong twice. This is the only way I know to help protect people. PCGS should buy it back, take the variety off, get the green sticker put back on and then sell it. They won't lose a ton of money this way since the price is much lower than it was two years ago.

    "If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
    Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners. :smile:
  • CrustyCrusty Posts: 1,073 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Why isn’t this variety issue mentioned in the GC description if they are aware?

  • keyman64keyman64 Posts: 15,454 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Crusty said:
    Why isn’t this variety issue mentioned in the GC description if they are aware?

    Great Collections handles more than a few coins per year and there's likely more than one employee at GC. It has been a couple years. I think I understand their position as well, they kinda have to go by what the TPGs say and can't be getting in the middle of things like this all the time.

    "If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64
    Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners. :smile:

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file