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Why no 10 on this Ryan? OK then, how about the Carlton?

JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,793 ✭✭✭✭✭

Thought this one had a great chance at a 10 and a $1,000.00 (or so) pay day. 9's are worth $50.00.

The two "white lines" on the left side of the card are from scanner junk, NOT on card.

Do you guys think this card is a 10? I might have to send it back to PSA with this big of a $ difference.


2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set

Comments

  • blurryfaceblurryface Posts: 5,136 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 16, 2021 3:00PM

    discoloration under the o in astros up top. looks like scratches on his left side of jersey/hat?

  • bobbybakerivbobbybakeriv Posts: 2,186 ✭✭✭✭

    @JoeBanzai said:

    Very nice card but I have to agree with REXVOS on this one. Black bordered cards are notoriously difficult to collect in high grade (e.g., 71 Topps, 86 Topps, 89 Donruss baseball, 85 Topps football). 71 Topps are crazy hard. Good luck with your grades in the future. I certainly need better luck these days too! 😊

  • handymanhandyman Posts: 5,347 ✭✭✭✭✭

    big old ding on the back left edge under date

  • Historicalwood71Historicalwood71 Posts: 518 ✭✭✭

    Top right soft corner. It's as simple as that. Psa requirements 4 sharp corners to even sniff a psa 10.

  • Historicalwood71Historicalwood71 Posts: 518 ✭✭✭

    @blurryface said:
    ^ should be a 6.

    This is ridiculous! How does that pass as a 9?

  • blurryfaceblurryface Posts: 5,136 ✭✭✭✭✭

    so much for stricter grading standards? or was this damaged while holdering?

    either way, kinda infuriating seeing this way over-graded whilst seeing alot of member's cards get defecated on.

    not a good look.

  • @blurryface said:
    so much for stricter grading standards? or was this damaged while holdering?

    either way, kinda infuriating seeing this way over-graded whilst seeing alot of member's cards get defecated on.

    not a good look.

    I agree on the last part that it sucks seeing that in a 9 holder with all the cards that are being put in 6 and 7's holders, looking at the card crushed into the slab, that looks like it was damaged in holdering.

    My friend just got his large GPK order back after almost a year and one of his first series 9's became a 4 because they destroyed it in slabbing. at least they gave him a 100 credit , sadly the card was selling for 350 these days.

  • ConstantineConstantine Posts: 2,368 ✭✭✭

    Sometimes you ask why not a 10 when it’s barely a 6.

  • CentauriCentauri Posts: 126 ✭✭✭

    Looks 9 to me. That back thing isn’t a ding - that is just a common paper issue on 86 Topps. Similar to rough cut OPC

  • blurryfaceblurryface Posts: 5,136 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Centauri said:
    Looks 9 to me. That back thing isn’t a ding - that is just a common paper issue on 86 Topps. Similar to rough cut OPC

    nope.

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,793 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks guys,

    I saw the top right corner, but it is barely noticeable to the naked eye. It shows up more when the light from the scanner hits it. I have seen some pretty "soft" 10's and some horrible 9's listed lately.

    Centering is better than a lot of 10's, I don't see that as an issue.

    As I mentioned there are no scratches on the front. There is some discoloration under the "O".

    I'm pretty sure the back damage was not there when it was sent in, but I can't say for sure.

    Not a 10, that back wrinkle is a bit bothersome.

    Appreciate the comments!

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • 19591959 Posts: 626 ✭✭✭

    I think PSA thinks, if one corner (Top left) is better than another corner 9 (top right) It cannot be a 10. The way they're grading now, take the 9.

  • Jayman1982Jayman1982 Posts: 467 ✭✭✭

    @Historicalwood71 said:

    @blurryface said:
    ^ should be a 6.

    This is ridiculous! How does that pass as a 9?

    It doesn't, that was likely done when holdering and was not picked up in a rushed QA process

  • Historicalwood71Historicalwood71 Posts: 518 ✭✭✭

    @Jayman1982 said:

    @Historicalwood71 said:

    @blurryface said:
    ^ should be a 6.

    This is ridiculous! How does that pass as a 9?

    It doesn't, that was likely done when holdering and was not picked up in a rushed QA process

    If I was psa.... I'd stop for a year with submissions and keep the reputation you have now. This isn't fair to people that value safety our our cards. But I hear ya.

  • BarfvaderBarfvader Posts: 2,859 ✭✭✭✭

    RE: Carlton

    Maybe this?

    I can slightly see the corner issue on the front scan lower left.

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,793 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Could be.

    I was thinking the centering was a bit high, but this card sure looks like a 10 to me.

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,793 ✭✭✭✭✭

    By the way Jeff, you are very good at this.

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • BarfvaderBarfvader Posts: 2,859 ✭✭✭✭

    Thanks. Your high quality scan is a big help.

  • thehallmarkthehallmark Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭

    @JoeBanzai said:
    Could be.

    I was thinking the centering was a bit high, but this card sure looks like a 10 to me.

    To me this is a really good example of a card I would have thrown into a bulk 80s sub in previous years and had maybe a 15% shot at a 10 - which was usually good enough (at $8 per card).

  • Goldy213Goldy213 Posts: 35 ✭✭

    Maybe a print discoloration.. I get these a lot on my 86 cards

  • Goldy213Goldy213 Posts: 35 ✭✭

  • ldfergldferg Posts: 6,742 ✭✭✭
    edited June 17, 2021 3:06PM

    @blurryface said:
    so much for stricter grading standards? or was this damaged while holdering?

    either way, kinda infuriating seeing this way over-graded whilst seeing alot of member's cards get defecated on.

    not a good look.

    I'm going with "damaged while holdering". Otherwise top right corner should keep it from a 9 imo. The Carlton is not focused enough for a 10 and black is faded. :(



    Thanks,

    David (LD_Ferg)



    1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
  • handymanhandyman Posts: 5,347 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 17, 2021 6:54PM

    Yeah out of focus on the Carlton. You can tell when you look at his pitching hand. The image is all blurry. Easy way to see is his pinky and face(under his eyes and eyes). Yours its all mushed together. Not as much detail.
    https://www.psacard.com/auctionprices/baseball-cards/1986-topps/steve-carlton/values/201606#g=10
    Just look at the last 10 sold cert 41687993

  • GreenSneakersGreenSneakers Posts: 908 ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 18, 2021 3:58AM

    On the Ryan, also two fish eyes on the back between the card number and the name, and another on the right margin. Also some discoloration above the L. To keep my belief system in order, I have to think the bottom was damaged upon holdering. But the card is unfortunately not a 10 even without that as the top right, color and fish eyes all detract.

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,793 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @GreenSneakers said:
    On the Ryan, also two fish eyes on the back between the card number and the name, and another on the right margin. Also some discoloration above the L. To keep my belief system in order, I have to think the bottom was damaged upon holdering. But the card is unfortunately not a 10 even without that as the top right, color and fish eyes all detract.

    You are correct it is not a 10.

    However I don't think PSA even looks at the backs, and if they do that wouldn't be the issue imo.

    The problem is when the owner of a potential $#900.00 card gets a 9 reducing the value to $50.00, he looks at ebay and sees some pretty lousy looking PSA 9's and thinks; "If that's a 9, mine's a 10.

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,793 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @handyman said:
    Yeah out of focus on the Carlton. You can tell when you look at his pitching hand. The image is all blurry. Easy way to see is his pinky and face(under his eyes and eyes). Yours its all mushed together. Not as much detail.
    https://www.psacard.com/auctionprices/baseball-cards/1986-topps/steve-carlton/values/201606#g=10
    Just look at the last 10 sold cert 41687993

    I didn't notice the focus issue, but I see your point. Card is slightly OF.

    Have seen worse looking 10's though.

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • CakesCakes Posts: 3,629 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @GreenSneakers said:
    On the Ryan, also two fish eyes on the back between the card number and the name, and another on the right margin. Also some discoloration above the L. To keep my belief system in order, I have to think the bottom was damaged upon holdering. But the card is unfortunately not a 10 even without that as the top right, color and fish eyes all detract.

    Please tell me that fish eyes on the back do not affect the grade. If so it furthers my stance that grading is starting to ruin the hobby for me.

    Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.

    Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,793 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Cakes said:

    @GreenSneakers said:
    On the Ryan, also two fish eyes on the back between the card number and the name, and another on the right margin. Also some discoloration above the L. To keep my belief system in order, I have to think the bottom was damaged upon holdering. But the card is unfortunately not a 10 even without that as the top right, color and fish eyes all detract.

    Please tell me that fish eyes on the back do not affect the grade. If so it furthers my stance that grading is starting to ruin the hobby for me.

    I never cared about the back as long as there was some border all the way around and there were no other HUGE problems.

    What I am thinking is PSA might be instructing the graders to start looking more closely at the backs and not giving out 10's if there are back issues that used to be overlooked.

    Out of focus was always kind of subjective too, and my Carlton is certainly not perfectly focused, but that seems to indicate a "tightening up" of the process.

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • CakesCakes Posts: 3,629 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's getting wild just how many things can lower a grade. The only silver lining I can see about the stricter grading process/evolution is I have learned a lot more about some of the finer points about grading. In 20 years it seems to have gone from 3 or 4 key aspects to about 5 or 6 key aspects plus 4 or 5 minor ones.

    Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.

    Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
  • Kepper19Kepper19 Posts: 335 ✭✭✭

    @beachbumcollecting said:

    @blurryface said:
    so much for stricter grading standards? or was this damaged while holdering?

    either way, kinda infuriating seeing this way over-graded whilst seeing alot of member's cards get defecated on.

    not a good look.

    I agree on the last part that it sucks seeing that in a 9 holder with all the cards that are being put in 6 and 7's holders, looking at the card crushed into the slab, that looks like it was damaged in holdering.

    My friend just got his large GPK order back after almost a year and one of his first series 9's became a 4 because they destroyed it in slabbing. at least they gave him a 100 credit , sadly the card was selling for 350 these days.

    I had about 6 Star Wars wax packs that were damaged when PSA employee pushed/shoved/smushed them into the too-tight holders...ticked me off good...never should happen...

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,793 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Kepper19 said:

    @beachbumcollecting said:

    @blurryface said:
    so much for stricter grading standards? or was this damaged while holdering?

    either way, kinda infuriating seeing this way over-graded whilst seeing alot of member's cards get defecated on.

    not a good look.

    I agree on the last part that it sucks seeing that in a 9 holder with all the cards that are being put in 6 and 7's holders, looking at the card crushed into the slab, that looks like it was damaged in holdering.

    My friend just got his large GPK order back after almost a year and one of his first series 9's became a 4 because they destroyed it in slabbing. at least they gave him a 100 credit , sadly the card was selling for 350 these days.

    I had about 6 Star Wars wax packs that were damaged when PSA employee pushed/shoved/smushed them into the too-tight holders...ticked me off good...never should happen...

    That's too bad, those weren't the 1967 Leaf were they?

    I'm sure glad my card wasn't a little nicer, that would have been a $850.00 loss for me.

    It will be interesting to see what happens in July if/when PSA opens thing up, and how the hobby, that now loves the number "10" over all others, reacts.

    I am curious to see what happens to all the "newer" cards worth under $150-200. Will the supply of graded simply dry up?

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • fergie23fergie23 Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭✭

    The Carlton is OC T/B and out of focus. Neither card has a particularly compelling case to be a 10. In general, comparing your own cards to weak examples of higher graded ones is a fools errand. If I had submitted the Ryan, I would have expected a 9 and hoped for a 10. The Carlton I would have just hoped for a 9.

    As for the backs, the only change I have noticed over the years is that they are starting to care more about minor corner wear on the back then they used to. There is no chance fish eyes on the back had any impact on the grade.

    Robb

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,793 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @fergie23 said:
    The Carlton is OC T/B and out of focus. Neither card has a particularly compelling case to be a 10. In general, comparing your own cards to weak examples of higher graded ones is a fools errand. If I had submitted the Ryan, I would have expected a 9 and hoped for a 10. The Carlton I would have just hoped for a 9.

    As for the backs, the only change I have noticed over the years is that they are starting to care more about minor corner wear on the back then they used to. There is no chance fish eyes on the back had any impact on the grade.

    Robb

    I did just that, expected 9's and hoped for 10's.

    Fools errand or not, some of the Ryan 9's looked to be more like 7-8's with faded colors, big fisheyes and print spots on his face.

    Maybe they should have created a 9.5 when they went to half grades.

    Either way, I appreciate the feedback!

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • blurryfaceblurryface Posts: 5,136 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JoeBanzai said:

    @fergie23 said:
    The Carlton is OC T/B and out of focus. Neither card has a particularly compelling case to be a 10. In general, comparing your own cards to weak examples of higher graded ones is a fools errand. If I had submitted the Ryan, I would have expected a 9 and hoped for a 10. The Carlton I would have just hoped for a 9.

    As for the backs, the only change I have noticed over the years is that they are starting to care more about minor corner wear on the back then they used to. There is no chance fish eyes on the back had any impact on the grade.

    Robb

    Maybe they should have created a 9.5 when they went to half grades.

    they just did. its a 9 cert’d w a number 50000000 and up! 😉

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